Märklin announces Flying Scotsman in H0

[jjb1970]

Roco toyed with British subjects more than once. A couple of their big UK dealers told me each had been consulted for their views on potential subjects and whether to go OO or HO among other things, and I had no reason to doubt either.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Just to note that Roco were not taken over by Fleischmann — rather, Roco's holding company, Modelleisenbahn GmbH, took over Fleischmann.

 

Yes, they did plan a Fairlie and in 009, but it would have been about £400 in 2009 prices and there wasn't sufficient interest. I suspect the same would have been true of their other planned interventions.

[009 micro modeller]

22 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Yes, they did plan a Fairlie and in 009, but it would have been about £400 in 2009 prices

Ah, that part I hadn’t heard before. That would generally make it substantially more expensive than the current selection of 009 RTR, even without allowing for inflation. I think the British manufacturers that have got into 009 since have also benefited from the fact that they have better coverage/brand recognition in the UK market than Roco do, and I recall that not much information was available from Roco at the time that pre-orders needed to be made to make it viable.

 

It was extensively discussed in 009 News at the time. I think it was always planned that it would be 4mm scale, though there was speculation from some quarters that it might be 3.5mm (unfounded, but perhaps understandable given Roco’s previous focus on H0e and the Continental market). The other reason given for its failure in 2009 was that the prototype was too unusual and line-specific, though as we’ve seen since that hasn’t been a problem for Heljan (L&B) or the Bachmann Fairlie (though the quarry Hunslets and WD Baldwins, on the other hand, are great examples of locos which are definitely prototype-based, while also being at home on a freelance or generic layout).

[autocoach]

Maybe someone else has asked this but I am too lazy to look through the whole thread?

 

Does it come with the headlight, bell, cowcatcher pilot and auxiliary tender used on 4472 in the US so we can run it back and forth on a layout of the San Francisco Belt Railroad as in 1973  with HO pullman livery coaches and an HO scale version of the Southern Belle #14 observation? 

 

I actually remember that episode in SF 4472 history which lasted several months but have never been able to find my photos from 1973 and digitize them...

[009 micro modeller]

45 minutes ago, autocoach said:

Maybe someone else has asked this but I am too lazy to look through the whole thread?

 

Does it come with the headlight, bell, cowcatcher pilot and auxiliary tender used on 4472 in the US so we can run it back and forth on a layout of the San Francisco Belt Railroad as in 1973  with HO pullman livery coaches and an HO scale version of the Southern Belle #14 observation? 

 

I actually remember that episode in SF 4472 history which lasted several months but have never been able to find my photos from 1973 and digitize them...

Isn’t the new Marklin model in completely the wrong condition for Scotsman’s US visit?

[jjb1970]

On Roco, the current company of that name was launched in the mid-00's after the original company went bankrupt. The creditors took over and did a relaunch and moved a lot of production but I remember it was a rather messy end of the old company. The original Rocoline track system went with the former owners, and I remember dealers telling me stories that really didn't speak well of the company in its final years.

[sncf231e]

12 hours ago, autocoach said:

Does it come with the headlight, bell, cowcatcher pilot and auxiliary tender used on 4472 in the US

No it does not, this is how it looks:

 

Regards

Fred

[ellocoloco]

If this release goes well and there is perceived demand, Marklin may well release a model of the US tour version. The tooling may well have been designed with that in mind. 

[D9020 Nimbus]

According to the review in the April RM, it's in the current condition with air brakes and high intensity headlight.

[maico]

On 07/03/2023 at 11:38, ellocoloco said:

If this release goes well and there is perceived demand, Marklin may well release a model of the US tour version. The tooling may well have been designed with that in mind. 

 

They do make a small amount of American outline, the last new tooling being in 2020 with the class 800.

I would say regardless of how it sells an apple green LNER version of the A3 will be on the cards in a few years.

 

 

 

[rue_d_etropal]

One thing that has struck me is whether this is another grey area colaberation with Hornby. A couple of years ago I notice Thomas items being sold under Marklin name, with Marklin chasis. Then the batrer train sets were launched in UK from Hornby. Now with it being the centenary of Flying Scotsman loco, we have a version from Marklin. These days a good start to designing a new model in a different scale, would be work done in design for model in another scale, so has there been some collaboration.

Another interesting fact is that I seem to remember Marklin own LGB, so have a big interest in garden railway market. The other big player in this field in I think owned by Bachmann. 

Just thinking. Nothing wrong in companies working together though.

And I would not be surprised to see the American tour version, as maybe the Australian one. 

 

[maico]

26 minutes ago, rue_d_etropal said:

One thing that has struck me is whether this is another grey area colaberation with Hornby. A couple of years ago I notice Thomas items being sold under Marklin name, with Marklin chasis. Then the batrer train sets were launched in UK from Hornby. Now with it being the centenary of Flying Scotsman loco, we have a version from Marklin. These days a good start to designing a new model in a different scale, would be work done in design for model in another scale, so has there been some collaboration.

Another interesting fact is that I seem to remember Marklin own LGB, so have a big interest in garden railway market. The other big player in this field in I think owned by Bachmann. 

Just thinking. Nothing wrong in companies working together though.

And I would not be surprised to see the American tour version, as maybe the Australian one. 

 

 

Marklin Trix have been working their way through non-German museum steam locos in recent years and the American class 800 above is another example. With the prototypes readily available for full scanning it's hard to see any advantages from Hornby input...

[rue_d_etropal]

9 minutes ago, maico said:

 

Marklin Trix have been working their way through non-German museum steam locos in recent years and the American class 800 above is another example. With the prototypes readily available for full scanning it's hard to see any advantages from Hornby input...

I agree, but given other grey link ups between the companies then , even sharing same 3d scans would make sense. 

There is nothing wrong with working together. Hornby and Jouef, before being taken over, collaborated on the original model for Eurostar, and it was made I think by Mehano initially. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by rue_d_etropal
More info

[Bernard Lamb]

In a similar vein Kato made models for Lemke.

Bernard

[maico]

On 13/03/2023 at 14:10, Bernard Lamb said:

In a similar vein Kato made models for Lemke.

Bernard

 

Are Kato made in Japan? I used to have some of their ho unitrack that was.

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, maico said:

 

Are Kato made in Japan? I used to have some of their ho unitrack that was.

Yes.

The box has a Tokyo address and a German one.

They made a model of the Flying Hamburger DMU.

Bernard

[jjb1970]

With Kato, there are two different approaches to export models. 

 

Some are made in conjunction with local producers, such as Lemke, Hobbytrain and Peco. Other export releases are made for their own account and sold as Kato (their US outline range, much of their European releases).

 

In each case it seems to be as much a private indulgence of the owner as anything, who likes to dabble in US and European prototypes between cranking out Japanese outline models in numbers model producers in other countries must dream of. Certainly if it was only about money and profit I suspect they'd do what Tomix do and stick to their core Japanese market. It's our gain that they have a proprietor who likes to do different things.

[D9020 Nimbus]

On 13/03/2023 at 14:10, Bernard Lamb said:

In a similar vein Kato made models for Lemke.

Bernard

And they still do.

[Tartaruga]

5 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

cranking out Japanese outline models in numbers model producers in other countries must dream of. Certainly if it was only about money and profit I suspect they'd do what Tomix do and stick to their core Japanese market. It's our gain that they have a proprietor who likes to do different things.

How big a company financially are Kato?

[jjb1970]

I don't actually know. I think they are a private company, their turnover is about £37 million with 400 employees according to their Japanese website. Hiroshi Kato is a genuine enthusiast of the hobby and a huge advocate of independent model shops, he's an interesting and articulate fellow. Their minimum production run is 10,000 units and their new release schedule is crazy, their output is overwhelmingly N gauge trains, primarily Japanese outline.

They're generally said to be smaller than Tomix. Tomix is part of Tomytec, which in turn is a subsidiary of Takara-Tomy, one of the worlds bigger toy makers. Unlike Kato, Tomix confine themselves to Japanese outline with very rare exceptions, their company info is rather opaque because of the corporate structure.

[eldomtom2]

On 15/03/2023 at 14:38, jjb1970 said:

In each case it seems to be as much a private indulgence of the owner as anything, who likes to dabble in US and European prototypes between cranking out Japanese outline models in numbers model producers in other countries must dream of. Certainly if it was only about money and profit I suspect they'd do what Tomix do and stick to their core Japanese market. It's our gain that they have a proprietor who likes to do different things.

Well stuff like the IET which is made in Japan for foreign export definitely has a Japanese market...

[maico]

A different angle. Looks a typical Marklin Trix construction: plastic cab and running board with diecast boiler and tender. A mix of metal and plastic separately fitted parts.

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by maico

[roythebus1]

On 24/02/2023 at 11:06, AY Mod said:

 

That was Fleischmann.

There was a Maerklin one as well as a Trix one.

[Mark Laidlay]

What prices are people seeing on the Marklin DCC A3?

[sncf231e]

Euro 530 at Hünerbein https://www.huenerbein.de/search?search=flying+scotsman

Regards

Fred