Nuneham viaduct problems - Oxford to Didcot line closed

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, 30368 said:

Do I detect a "Didcotist" attitude being expressed?

 

I would be equally content to see parliament held in Didcot for the duration, with overnight accommodation provided in Oxford, but I think that might be harder to arrange, on both counts.

 

Didcot is some what below the notice of Reading. Ricky Gervais is Reading born and bred; you will recall that in The Office, the office is in Slough, with the other office in Swindon. That sums up Reading's snobbery for you!

[Jonboy]

12 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I would be equally content to see parliament held in Didcot for the duration, with overnight accommodation provided in Oxford, but I think that might be harder to arrange, on both counts.

I think this might be the easier of the two, Didcot has no significant accommodation, nearest hotels** are three miles out on the A34 junction…..several village hall type buildings, or empty shops in the orchard centre, that could be used for meetings though…

 

**the district council did put together a proposal for a large development opposite the station including a large hotel a few years back, and none of the chains were prepared to sign up to run it….

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Jonboy said:

I think this might be the easier of the two, Didcot has no significant accommodation,

 

I was thinking that large multi-storey car pack at the station could be adapted for the purpose, with temporary partitions, camp beds, and portaloos. 

 

Or perhaps a large barge?

Edited April 10, 2023 by Compound2632

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, eastglosmog said:

Don't know what all the fuss is about, Nigerian Railways were quite happy to carry on running across this bridge ...

Fortunately - a bit closer to home - and a bit closer to the problems at Nuneham - they didn't keep running trains at Malahide : - https://www.raiu.ie/assets/files/pdf/accident_malahide.pdf

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Fortunately - a bit closer to home - and a bit closer to the problems at Nuneham - they didn't keep running trains at Malahide : - https://www.raiu.ie/assets/files/pdf/accident_malahide.pdf

 

Looking at that report, we see a clear case in which structural failure was a direct consequence of institutional failure, so it doesn't help the case of those trying to excuse what has happened at Nuneham.

[Supaned]

16 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

Of course, we could accept that these are professionals that have a lot of experience in railway operations and design and specification and have all the immediate information in front of them...rather than just assuming they are wrong on a model railway forum...

 

Just saying.

 

Simon

 

Absolutely. My 25 years of working trains along that piece of railway is meaningless.

[Oldddudders]

3 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

U.K. railway infrastructure has been publicly controlled since 2002. No privatisation or private shareholders removing profits. Just government straitjackets on funding.

In 1994-6 I was Project Controller for selling off the BRIS portfolio. Signal engineers, PW people, electrification, plant & machinery, facilities management, etc., all of which was conducted by BR in-house, with external resources supplementing as necessary. All those thousands of seasoned, expert people, who had not been transferred into Railtrack on 1.4.1994, disappeared into retirement or into the private sector. Subsequently, PWay maintenance was taken back into the Infrastructure Controller's ownership - after a number of regrettable fatalities - but I am less sure about other aspects of routine maintenance. Thus the cost of those other activities, instead of being DLO-priced, is now at the mercy of the private sector, which has a perfectly legitimate profit motive. 

 

There is also the issue of speed of mobilisation. Contractors are happy to tender, but can they get resources on site in the versatile form and timescale that any DLO should provide? Privatisation issues go  beyond money, and include configuration management, which I perceive as a key issue when the chips are down, as in this viaduct. 

[melmerby]

On 08/04/2023 at 12:25, woodenhead said:

A new viaduct without a central abutment and clear of the ground movement seems like the obvious solution.

 

It looks worse from Google 🤣

 

I know it's a 3d effect causing distortion....

Strange that the photographical distortion is particularly bad in that image.

Earlier views are OK such as this from 30/5/2009:

[woodenhead]

@melmerby I think it is the 3D rendering they apply now, look at it side on with 3D enabled.

 

Apparently, they are not wrong about imminent danger of collapse 😃

 

 

But from the other side the effect is not quite so pronounced, the central pier on the first image is sticking out when it shouldn't for a 3D render on the first so I guess they filmed it from one side (where the pier would be visible) then apply magic to make it look 3D.

[AY Mod]

31 minutes ago, Supaned said:

 

Absolutely. My 25 years of working trains along that piece of railway is meaningless.

 

Which carries more trains; Didcot to Oxford or north of Aynho Jcn.? Are there more Padd-Oxf/Worcs services than Chiltern? Is there anything else that affects capacity?

[Ron Ron Ron]

The story is starting to hit the wider mainstream news media.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/reading-oxford-network-rail-bridge-b2317072.html

 

 

 

.

[melmerby]

11 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

The story is starting to hit the wider mainstream news media.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/reading-oxford-network-rail-bridge-b2317072.html

 

 

 

.

One of the comments from "Swansea02" amused me

"it's proposal to spend £100 billion on HS2 seems rather mad . Better to use the £100 billion to renew the existing railways. "

 

Someone needs to tell them it's not a proposal, construction is well under way!

[Robert Shrives]

34 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Which carries more trains; Didcot to Oxford or north of Aynho Jcn.? Are there more Padd-Oxf/Worcs services than Chiltern? Is there anything else that affects capacity?

Andy, certainly  did- oxf with the turbos buzzing about . but whole line is busy when resignalling  BAN - LMS   got headways to around 6 minutes from 15 minutes the flood gates opened for freight away from WCML from the Southern, this with 30 minute voyagers and 15 minute turbos/Worcesters in the mix the whole line once slated for closure is very busy. It is worn out below bottom ballast as Fenny Compton, Harbury(well its tunnel and cutting, Nuneham  viaduct and the plethora of level crossings show it is a disaster on the edge every day, superned as a driver knows it well and as Controller it is certainly as exciting as a ride a Alton towers on most shifts.  Still luckily the Dft says nobody is travelling so there is no inconvenience is there.... 

Still given pics with rails removed and grout pumps working on middle pier work is rapidly in hand to restore.  Hopefully June dates are good for restoration and hopefully restoration to linespeed will be possible soon after. site hampered by access so ripping embankment and abutment apart for rebuild will be slower than on a model railway with a peco bridge and  scalesene brick paper.  I guess it shows the problem of building on fibreboard with chipboard subbase in a damp shed in winter !!    

[AY Mod]

3 minutes ago, Robert Shrives said:

certainly  did- oxf with the turbos buzzing about

 

I hadn't taken the shuttles into account.

[ess1uk]

This on top of the bridge at Yarnton and other landslides, not good news

[big jim]

1 hour ago, Robert Shrives said:

It is worn out below bottom ballast as Fenny Compton, Harbury(well its tunnel and cutting,

I got stopped the week before last at harbury with an intermodal heading south, stuck in a line of trains waiting to pass between bishops itchington and fenny compton as a down train had reported bad lateral movement and trains could only pass through the effected area one at a time in either direction

 

It’s always been a bit rough just north of fenny but the last 6 months it’s got particularly bad

[Robert Shrives]

Big Jim, 

True enough, I was at Leamington spa waiting for 1M58 the other week and a f`liner 70 flew  through with a mainly empty set of flats and it was heard and felt more than seen with the roar and banging of multiple flats  on the wagons- cannot do anybody any good.  I stopped reading and watched train as best as I could at the speed to check rotations and tail lamp. 

Robert 

[APOLLO]

Stop faffing around, get the Army in with their Bailey Bridges !!!

 

Those trouser braces would most likely hold up the Nuneham bridge on their own !!!

 

 

 

Brit15

Edited April 10, 2023 by APOLLO

[Robert Shrives]

Lovely idea but of course the issue is with no effective London abutment and embankment made of papermache and sawdust grass effect topping... then even the army would struggle. At least nobody is shooting at the orange army with hot lead.

Great photos however. 

 

Robert 

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, melmerby said:

Strange that the photographical distortion is particularly bad in that image.

Earlier views are OK such as this from 30/5/2009:

 

This photo clearly shows the 1929 infilling of the third, northern, span of the 1907 viaduct mentioned by @eastglosmog. Perhaps it would have been a better idea to divert the river northwards and fill in the southern span!

[JeremyC]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

This photo clearly shows the 1929 infilling of the third, northern, span of the 1907 viaduct mentioned by @eastglosmog. Perhaps it would have been a better idea to divert the river northwards and fill in the southern span!

They probably had the same problem I used to tell people I had when unexpected breakdowns occured; that of getting hold of a reliable crystal ball🙂

Edited April 10, 2023 by JeremyC

[St. Simon]

7 hours ago, Supaned said:

 

Absolutely. My 25 years of working trains along that piece of railway is meaningless.

 

I stand corrected, apologies.

 

Simon

Edited April 10, 2023 by St. Simon

[Darius43]

BBC News Website article today.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[The Stationmaster]

On 09/04/2023 at 17:41, black and decker boy said:

They may be saying that publically but Paul Clifton had published internal comms confirming at least mid-June

 

Paul Clifton on Twitter

As the person concerned couldn't even spell Nuneham I do wonder about the provenance if that date.  And it certainly isn't reflected by GWR's timetable alterations as they currently stand.

 

On 10/04/2023 at 09:38, Oldddudders said:

The fact is that NR has inherited an enormous amount of very old infrastructure. NR undoubtedly has the technical capability to maintain it all, but whether it really has the budget or the staffing may be another matter, and this viaduct was at least being monitored and remedial works undertaken. I wonder if someone is wishing he (or she) had been told sooner, so they could have applied more resource. Stitches in time can save more than nine. 

 

It would suit some of us to blame it all on Privatisation, but unexpected failures happened in BR days, too - I only have to think back to Clapham A signalbox trying to fall down onto the Windsor Lines in the late '60s, and Putney flyover suddenly being found unsafe 20 years later, to realise that it can happen. And, come to think of it, between those two dates I think Chelsea river-bridge had a period of being one-train-at a-time. Bit of a cluster there. 

Don't forget that work was already going on at ths site, notably o under teh southern end of the viaduct, before the line was closed.  So something - maybe not the ideal things or equally maybe the ideal thing - was going on before the line was closed.  

 

I think the simple fact is that NR has estimated a date for reopening and has probably based that on what works are needed in addition to what was already underway and their estimate of how long those works will take.  I see that sometimes they get jobs finished before the estimated date so some of their estimates are undoubtedly on the cautious side - whether this one is we don't know.

 

What also needs to be taken into account, as already mentioned above, is the impact of the weather on the river and hence the bridge.  there is an awful of water coming down teh Thames at the moent and it follows a dry spell  so understandable perhaps that embankment failures can happen.  From what I have seen travelling around former WR routes NR has put a huge amount of effort over recent years into giving very extensive/radical attention to  some of the worst bank slip and flooding sites where problems go back for decades.  These could not never previously be tackled beyond 'sticking plaster' levels of attention because there was no money to do more.  But they can't do everything at once.

 

And don't forget that back in 1987 a bridge failure resulted in a train ending up in a river with the Driver and several passengers drowned as a result.  Sudden bridge failures are nothing new and better close aline than start killing people.

[The Stationmaster]

On 10/04/2023 at 11:04, Compound2632 said:

 

I would be equally content to see parliament held in Didcot for the duration, with overnight accommodation provided in Oxford, but I think that might be harder to arrange, on both counts.

 

Didcot is some what below the notice of Reading. Ricky Gervais is Reading born and bred; you will recall that in The Office, the office is in Slough, with the other office in Swindon. That sums up Reading's snobbery for you!

But forget ye not that some of 'The Office' was filmed in an empty office block in Reading  (that was subsequently demolished - the office block that is, not Reading).  Although there is a certain building in the town I'd demolish tomorrow and put its inhabitants back into the more secure 'care' of one of His Majesty's penal establishments.