WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

[phil-b259]

On 13/01/2024 at 20:25, black and decker boy said:

I think the hot drink warning is actually a product of the USA which is populated by idiots* and a legal system too happy to award them lots of $$$ for their idiotic acts 

 

 

*sensible and normal Americans may exist, somewhere. I’ve just not met any yet… 

Actually it’s worse than that…

 

You see the lady who spilled hot coffee on herself and sustained significant scalding injuries actually didn’t want to sue initially.

 

The problem is that because USA state backed healthcare is basically non-exsistant the lady got given a huge set of medical bills for her treatment and care which she couldn’t pay.

 

It’s a sad reality that in the supposedly rich / developed USA people lose their savings, goods and even homes to pay for medical hospital stays, ambulance rides and surgery / treatment. Even something like being diabetic has massive  implications for your finances.

 

But to return to the lady and the hot coffee - she was therefore forced to sue the restaurant which provided the hot coffee in an attempt to get money to pay for her medical treatment.

 

Had healthcare in the USA been as per every other developed nation then the lady would never have needed to start litigation.

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

As a matter of interest as far as money is concerned WCRC made  n Operating Profit of £2,398,003 in its financial year ended 31 March 2023, an increase of c.£400.000 on the previous year.  It paid £523,800. in tax leaving it (including some other income, to a nett profit of £1,943,329.

 

This, after further accounting debits and credits, resulted in its bottom line  'shareholders funds' increasing from £3,724,423 a year previously to a 2023 total of £5.668,352.  And they had as part of those accounts £6 million in cash in their bank account.   Assuming they needed 10 vehicles in a pool for the Jacobite and they had fitted them with CDL during the winter of 2022/3 they would still have had almost £5.7 million in their bank account on 31 Match.

 

The cost of CDL would be tax deductible as an operating cost, so over time, they would get the money back.

 

 

[morethansixchars]

2 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

 

Portishead Branch, you can see the M5 bridge over the River Avon in the background

 

It was filmed around my parents house, I have drunk as the Kebab & Calculator and swum at the Peoples fascist Bank and Police Station

Thank you! Near the old Pill Station, right?

[johnofwessex]

1 hour ago, morethansixchars said:

Thank you! Near the old Pill Station, right?

 

Yes, in the Portishead direction

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

84. "The cost of retrofitting central door locking on the train services run daily by the Claimant falls comfortably below the notional economic value of preventing a fatality."

This sentence should be highlighted in large bold capital letters with flashing lights.

[Northmoor]

11 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

This sentence should be highlighted in large bold capital letters with flashing lights.

Which is exactly how it will appear in the media when they report from the relevant accident inquiry and prosecutions for corporate manslaughter.

[St Enodoc]

18 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Which is exactly how it will appear in the media when they report from the relevant accident inquiry and prosecutions for corporate manslaughter.

But it won't, will it? The media don't understand the concept of VPF. They'll assume it means the value of a life, so we'll see headlines like "ORR/RAIB/(regulator of your choice) says that the life of a train passenger is only worth GBP x000 which is where we came in.

Edited January 17 by St Enodoc
missing word

[jjb1970]

There's a fundamental difference between 'can't' and 'won't'.

 

Turn this around, if other operators have made the effort to fit CDL why should they be disadvantaged by WCRC seeming to think they can just opt out?

 

This is something a lot of people misunderstand about the noble profession of lobbying. People think they lobby against regulation, that may be the case in some instances before legislation is enacted. However, most industrial lobbying bodies are very active in applying pressure on government agencies that once legislation is enacted it should be properly implemented and enforced because if some companies make the effort to comply then they will demand everybody else should too.

[St Enodoc]

7 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

There's a fundamental difference between 'can't' and 'won't'.

 

Turn this around, if other operators have made the effort to fit CDL why should they be disadvantaged by WCRC seeming to think they can just opt out?

 

This is something a lot of people misunderstand about the noble profession of lobbying. People think they lobby against regulation, that may be the case in some instances before legislation is enacted. However, most industrial lobbying bodies are very active in applying pressure on government agencies that once legislation is enacted it should be properly implemented and enforced because if some companies make the effort to comply then they will demand everybody else should too.

To avoid any ambiguity, my use of "won't" above was with reference to the media reports, not to compliance or to the inquiry and prosecutions.

[jjb1970]

35 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

To avoid any ambiguity, my use of "won't" above was with reference to the media reports, not to compliance or to the inquiry and prosecutions.

 

Indeed, my comment was aimed at the approach of WCRC to risk management, they strike me as conflating the two concepts. They clearly could have fitted CDL long ago if they wanted to comply.

[Mark Saunders]

1 minute ago, jjb1970 said:

 

Indeed, my comment was aimed at the approach of WCRC to risk management, they strike me as conflating the two concepts. They clearly could have fitted CDL long ago if they wanted to comply.

Its not that long ago there was vast amounts of Central Door Locking equipment in scrap yards but I doubt much was recovered!

[62613]

Advert on my Faceache feed today from LSL, assuring anyone who has booked on any of their tours so far that their booking is safe because all their stock is fitted with CDL.

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

There's a fundamental difference between 'can't' and 'won't'.

 

Turn this around, if other operators have made the effort to fit CDL why should they be disadvantaged by WCRC seeming to think they can just opt out?

 

This is something a lot of people misunderstand about the noble profession of lobbying. People think they lobby against regulation, that may be the case in some instances before legislation is enacted. However, most industrial lobbying bodies are very active in applying pressure on government agencies that once legislation is enacted it should be properly implemented and enforced because if some companies make the effort to comply then they will demand everybody else should too.

Indeed, in some industries (such as automotive and defence) lobbying is on two fronts.  Firstly it is against the legislation because to implement and comply with it requires extra people which are a cost to business.  Once in place, they lobby for that legislation to be enforced because they know it is another barrier to entry for potential new competitors in the market, who are likely to be small and less able to afford the specialist personnel necessary.  The first kind of lobbying is public, the second tends to be more subtle.

[newbryford]

40 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

Its not that long ago there was vast amounts of Central Door Locking equipment in scrap yards but I doubt much was recovered!

 

I believe LSL got some of their CDL kit from stock being scrapped.

[phil-b259]

8 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

I believe LSL got some of their CDL kit from stock being scrapped.

And there is no reason WCR couldn’t have done the same…. It’s not as though the requirement to fit CDL suddenly appeared without warning last year.

[Gilbert]

From Pathfinder..

 

ANNOUNCEMENT: 

THE SETTLE & CARLISLE WINTER EXPRESS
SATURDAY 24 FEBRUARY 2024

Due to a change in circumstances, our original 1960's carriages from West Coast Railway Co are unavailable for this rail excursion. But fear not! We've turned this challenge into an opportunity to transport you back in time to the unforgettable blue and grey era of the 1980s.
Embark on a spectacular journey featuring Southern Railway Battle of Britain Class, No. 34067 'Tangmere' pulling a rake of blue and grey coaching stock. Visually we will make fond memories of the days when 34092 'City of Wells' performed these duties, four decades ago over the same route. We extend our gratitude to Riviera Trains for their generous contribution, providing us with their carriages, enabling us to run this excursion.

[woodenhead]

19 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

From Pathfinder..

 

ANNOUNCEMENT: 

THE SETTLE & CARLISLE WINTER EXPRESS
SATURDAY 24 FEBRUARY 2024

Due to a change in circumstances, our original 1960's carriages from West Coast Railway Co are unavailable for this rail excursion. But fear not! We've turned this challenge into an opportunity to transport you back in time to the unforgettable blue and grey era of the 1980s.
Embark on a spectacular journey featuring Southern Railway Battle of Britain Class, No. 34067 'Tangmere' pulling a rake of blue and grey coaching stock. Visually we will make fond memories of the days when 34092 'City of Wells' performed these duties, four decades ago over the same route. We extend our gratitude to Riviera Trains for their generous contribution, providing us with their carriages, enabling us to run this excursion.

So that'll be a Mk2 AirCon set then but they don't want to mention that just yet...

[woodenhead]

Interestingly I am reading Riviera sold it's Mk1s to West Coast who had derogation (at the time) to use them on the mainline.

 

 

[ruggedpeak]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

Interestingly I am reading Riviera sold it's Mk1s to West Coast who had derogation (at the time) to use them on the mainline.

Riveria's website says that it is "the leading provider of high quality special trains in the UK". http://www.riviera-trains.co.uk/

 

I would argue Mk1's are not that part of that business proposition, and I would guess given the age, lack of crash worthiness, lack of "quality" etc of Mk1's they did not fit their business model, and that the use of Mk1's on the mainline is likely over time to become more problematic as passenger safety is tightened. I guess (again) that using Mk1's even with CDL will only have a limited lifespan before they are non-compliant for use on the NR network. WCR may have hastened that process given the issues under discussion and the High Court Judgement that has made the situation crystal clear for all involved.

 

 

[nightstar.train]

I'm not sure the end of Mk1s on the mainline is in sight. There was a plan to get rid of all of them in the 90s/00s due to crash worthiness etc. But it was felt since then that the mass withdrawal of most Mk1 stock and the introduction of TPWS has reduced the risk of a crash involving a train of Mk1s to such a low point that it is still acceptable to run them. Yes they will not stand up to a crash as well as more modern stock, but the chance of them being in a crash is so low that the overall risk is acceptable. 

[woodenhead]

@ruggedpeak But Riviera can make that claim if it's stock is Mk2 and no longer has Mk1s in it's inventory.  Sister company Pathfinder was using WCRC Mk1s that perhaps used to be owned by Riviera.

 

Sounds like an astute transaction by Riviera to not leave themselves in a hole or having to upgrade coaches that did not really suit CDL.

[Siberian Snooper]

MK 1s on the WHR being involved in a crash, I would hope was very low, being single line and lowish speeds. Whether they would be allowed to operate between Carnforth and the start of the single line in Scotland would be a different matter.

 

 

[johnofwessex]

3 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

................................. Whether they would be allowed to operate between Carnforth and the start of the single line in Scotland would be a different matter.

If it was ECS its not an issue

3 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

 

 

 

[BoD]

4 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

I'm not sure the end of Mk1s on the mainline is in sight. There was a plan to get rid of all of them in the 90s/00s due to crash worthiness etc. But it was felt since then that the mass withdrawal of most Mk1 stock and the introduction of TPWS has reduced the risk of a crash involving a train of Mk1s to such a low point that it is still acceptable to run them. Yes they will not stand up to a crash as well as more modern stock, but the chance of them being in a crash is so low that the overall risk is acceptable. 

Obviously that assumes that the AWS/TPWS etc systems are all working as they should.  Nobody would ever dream of overriding them, would they?

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, woodenhead said:

So that'll be a Mk2 AirCon set then but they don't want to mention that just yet...

That needs the diesel too, unless the weather gets warmer.