WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

InterCity made a concerted effort to fit all their stock with CDL by 1994 - a fact which was greatly helped by the introduction of fixed formations with DVTs / DBSOs limiting the number of stock which required fitment.

 

Of course with the traditional / unmodified HST fleet having only relatively recently been withdrawn from InterCity routes they were in fact one of the last of the former BR sectors to get rid of slam doors.

 

Network SouthEast didn't have the option to fit CDL to its huge fleet of Mk1 EMUs (particularly as they were well overdue for replacement) so passengers on many London commuter routes had to wait until privatisation started delivering new stock - and in some cases that was quite a drawn out affair with slam door units lasting well into the first decade of this century.

 

What was Regional railways made a good start with the replacement of 1st Gen DMUs by Pacers and Sprinters - but their problem was there simply wasn't enough new units built so you did get some 1st gen units or loco hauled stock limping on into the post privatisation era until TurboStar DMUs started arriving in substantial numbers.

So, to be used to using slam door stock on your own, not as a child with an adult opening the doors for you, you'd have to be say about 10-12 in about 2005, which would put you early 30's now. To be used to using non-CDL fitted slam doors on the mainline,  you'd have to be about the same age in about 1992, so 44-ish now.

So there will be plenty of parents of say 7-15 year old now who will have little if any experience of slam door stock, and possibly a few grand parents as well. That's exactly what one of the prime markets of the Jacobite will be-parents of kids who are HP fans.

Edited April 24 by rodent279

[ruggedpeak]

33 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I think classes 411, 421 and 423 were all cheerfully serving Kent less than 25 years ago, and plenty of kids went to school on them. I am not aware that any had CDL fitted. 

I was commuting on slam door bouncy seat non-CDL 312's on the Southminster branch in the very late 1990's.

 

According to Wikipedia "The last slam-door stock was withdrawn by South Eastern Trains in December 2005" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam-door_train

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/southern_counties/4163768.stm

[rodent279]

Point is, to be familiar  with using non-CDL fitted slam door stock, you have to be at least in your 30's, and then only in certain parts of the country.

Edited April 24 by rodent279

[Northmoor]

7 hours ago, Artless Bodger said:

WRT leaning out of windows - I think there have been two at least fatalities in the UK recently from just that. Lady fatally injured leaning out of an HST droplight between Bath and Bristol, and a man (regarded as a railway enthusiast and therefore probably more knowledgable of the risks) leaning out of a 5WES droplight.

 

I travelled a lot on Mk1s, often on my way to / from work. Not something I get misty eyed about enough to want to reprise.

My former manager knows, or knew, the victim in that case.  It's worth reading the RAIB report if you think he was "leaning out"; I think it suggested that the clearance between coach body and the signal post at that speed (so allowing for the dynamic envelope) was no more than a few inches.  Anyone with their head out enough for just one eye to be able to see forward, would have been fatally injured.  Just like the fatality of a young woman between Bristol and Cardiff (is this the one you're referring to?), there was a suggestion she was completely inside the coach, but was struck by something fouling the loading gauge and which came through the open window.

[Artless Bodger]

48 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

My former manager knows, or knew, the victim in that case.  It's worth reading the RAIB report if you think he was "leaning out"; I think it suggested that the clearance between coach body and the signal post at that speed (so allowing for the dynamic envelope) was no more than a few inches.  Anyone with their head out enough for just one eye to be able to see forward, would have been fatally injured.  Just like the fatality of a young woman between Bristol and Cardiff (is this the one you're referring to?), there was a suggestion she was completely inside the coach, but was struck by something fouling the loading gauge and which came through the open window.

Yes, I'm sure these are the ones I had in mind - thanks for the correction. 

[roythebus1]

To add to the Swiss element, railways built to UIC spec have greater lineside clearances than UK railways, so less chance of losing your head when falling out of a window. I done some volunteer work on the metre gauge TTA in Belgium over the last 12 years. That has open-sided toastrack coaches with just safety chains. Some passengers chooses to sit on the step with their feet dangling over the edge. In the height of summer the lineside vegetation brushes the sides of the coaches. If passengers get injured, that's their problem, they have to have a sense of self-care over there. But on the TTA the line speed is 25km/h. <ahem>.

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, SR71 said:

I'm in my 4th decade and remember slam door stock coming through East Croydon although admittedly I was sub 5. All the doors opening on a still moving train made a lasting impression!

They'd have made less of an impression if you stood clear!

[adb968008]

Class 101’s ran until 2001.

class 205 until 2004.

CIGs ran until 2010.

any advance on that for something without cdl ?

 

Class 121 for Chiltern until 2017 any advance on that for slam door, but these had cdl since 2004.

 

iirc the 121 was also the end of scheduled vac brake passenger stock too.

 

 

Edited April 25 by adb968008
Got my CIGs and VEPs confused

[11B]

18 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Class 101’s ran until 2001.

class 205 until 2004.

VEPs ran until 2010.

any advance on that for something without cdl ?

 

Class 121 for Chiltern until 2017 any advance on that for slam door, but these had cdl since 2004.

 

iirc the 121 was also the end of scheduled vac brake passenger stock too.

 

 

North West Regional Railways loco hauled mk1 and MK2 lasted until at least summer 2000, and probably 2001 so ties in with the class 101

 

Ian

[Matt37268]

1 hour ago, 11B said:

North West Regional Railways loco hauled mk1 and MK2 lasted until at least summer 2000, and probably 2001 so ties in with the class 101

 

Ian

I’m sure I had some ex coast slam door stock on the rug ex’s up the Marches in 2002. I’m sure some of it continued possibly later than that. 

Edited April 24 by Matt37268

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I think classes 411, 421 and 423 were all cheerfully serving Kent less than 25 years ago, and plenty of kids went to school on them. I am not aware that any had CDL fitted. 

Before I left the UK in 2001, my commute between Polegate and East Croydon was exclusively 421s and/or 423s, so within your 25-year guesstimate. Definitely no CDL.

[Nick C]

15 hours ago, rodent279 said:

So, to be used to using slam door stock on your own, not as a child with an adult opening the doors for you, you'd have to be say about 10-12 in about 2005, which would put you early 30's now. To be used to using non-CDL fitted slam doors on the mainline,  you'd have to be about the same age in about 1992, so 44-ish now.

So there will be plenty of parents of say 7-15 year old now who will have little if any experience of slam door stock, and possibly a few grand parents as well. That's exactly what one of the prime markets of the Jacobite will be-parents of kids who are HP fans.

My point exactly - I'm just under 40 now, and grew up with CIGs and VEPs on the central division in the 90s/early 2000s, but for anyone in much of the rest of the country they'd already gone by then - plus I'm from a railway family and so would have used the trains a lot more as a kid than most people my age.

 

12 hours ago, adb968008 said:

VEPs ran until 2010.

Last VEP was withdrawn in 2005 - there were two CIGs lasted to 2010, but they were confined to the Lymington branch.

[Reorte]

Last time I used trains with slam doors semi-regularly was early 2000s, when Manchester - Scotland services were still loco-hauled (then replaced with shorter, more overcrowded Voyagers, which in turn were replaced with even shorter, even more overcrowded 185s). I'd have been in my 20s then. At any rate I assume they were slam doors, I can't remember the doors but AFAIK no-one had converted any loco-hauled stock then, but I couldn't even tell you if they were Mk2s or 3s.

Edited April 25 by Reorte

[Cruachan]

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

Last time I used trains with slam doors semi-regularly was early 2000s, when Manchester - Scotland services were still loco-hauled (then replaced with shorter, more overcrowded Voyagers, which in turn were replaced with even shorter, even more overcrowded 185s). I'd have been in my 20s then. At any rate I assume they were slam doors, I can't remember the doors but AFAIK no-one had converted any loco-hauled stock then, but I couldn't even tell you if they were Mk2s or 3s.

The latter day Crosscountry loco-hauled sets were indeed slam door mark 2 stock (though CDL fitted as noted above, of course).

[Bucoops]

22 hours ago, Reorte said:

When did all the Mk3s end up with it? I didn't think they were built like that and it was quite a late add-on, but I'm probably completely wrong.

 

There was a training coach in Norwich Station in the early 90s I think - it was fitted in the Swallow era for sure.

[adb968008]

On 24/04/2024 at 18:12, rodent279 said:

So, to be used to using slam door stock on your own, not as a child with an adult opening the doors for you, you'd have to be say about 10-12 in about 2005, which would put you early 30's now. To be used to using non-CDL fitted slam doors on the mainline,  you'd have to be about the same age in about 1992, so 44-ish now.

So there will be plenty of parents of say 7-15 year old now who will have little if any experience of slam door stock, and possibly a few grand parents as well. That's exactly what one of the prime markets of the Jacobite will be-parents of kids who are HP fans.

My little one is 13, when she was 11 she was using slam door stock, without my help.

weve got very short memories…

25th April 2021…3 years ago today I took this…

 

even in 2019 5 London Termini had regular cdl slam door services everyday…

If I goto Paddington tonight, I still can, six nights a week.

 

its not that long ago… mk3 cdl slam doors only retired during covid, even in 2021 thousands of passengers a day were using slam doors.

 

 

Edited April 25 by adb968008

[ruggedpeak]

26 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

its not that long ago… mk3 cdl slam doors only retired during covid, even in 2021 thousands of passengers a day were using slam doors.

A valid point, Greater Anglia were using Mk3 push pull sets with 90 haulage until the new Stadler units took over in 2020. For some reason in my head I don't equate a Mk3 door as slam door like a 312, but you had to open the window and lean out to get the door open, and slam it shut so the guard didn't have walk down the train to close it!

 

I guess the amount of people in recent history who used those services and were familiar with them probably only had a limited overlap in the Venn diagram of the wider population who visit heritage railways?

[Reorte]

I'm guessing the few remaining Mk3s still going around in regular service have had the doors converted to power?

[woodenhead]

2 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I'm guessing the few remaining Mk3s still going around in regular service have had the doors converted to power?

Aren’t the LSL ones still ‘traditional’

[bbishop]

I commuted to school, on my own, from the age of seven.  Mum took me the first day, after which I was on my own.  The 1926 era 4SUB broke down on the third day, and they stopped the Kent Coast train comprising brand new 4CEPs.  I discovered these had external handles, so on arrival at St Mary Cray I opened the window, opened the door, closed the window, stepped out and closed the door behind me. Simples.  

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, Reorte said:

I'm guessing the few remaining Mk3s still going around in regular service have had the doors converted to power?

Like this you mean?

 

 

All sliding doors

 

 

Sorry that pic is too head on to show clearly but you get the idea.

 

Due to travel on the Jacobite 2moro; will report back.

[uax6]

4 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

 

 

Due to travel on the Jacobite 2moro; will report back.

 

See if you can work out how the CDL works with the non-fitted Mk1's in the formation please.... Photos of the carriage ends might be helpful... 

 

Andy G

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Due to travel on the Jacobite 2moro; will report back.

Have you told your life assurance company?

[Reorte]

9 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Like this you mean?

I just wondered when I saw the Manchester - Cardiff train pass by yesterday, from a not-very-detailed glance the doors looked pretty much like I always remember them being.

 

Odd-looking train though, appears to have been cobbled together from whatever was lying around, 67, four coaches (IIRC) and a DVT.

[Steadfast]

On 24/04/2024 at 21:24, adb968008 said:

CIGs ran until 2010.

any advance on that for something without cdl ?

No doubt someone will correct me if wrong, but the Lymington CIGs appear to have CDL fitted. 1497 and 1498 had retrofitted panels on the lower doors, to the same design as 121032, and likely the Chiltern bubbles too.

 

Seen here on this Flickr link

 

 

Jo