Dapol launch an N gauge class 87

[ThaneofFife]

Strange hattons have the twin pack dcc fitted at £314 but £300 direct on Dapol website.....bit of a bargain.

Think if we see an 81 or 85 in N i may switch from 00.

[Padishar Creel]

Good stuff.

2BR Blue, a Swallow and the double pack 006/012 for me

 

es grüßt

pc 

[Ed-farms]

3 hours ago, AndrueC said:

Announced now? Might be available to actually buy in 2025 then based on their current track record. I'm still waiting for the Super Voyager and retooled HST to reappear.

 

Just think of it as more time to save up for them. Personally i would rather know something was coming and have time to save then the Farish method of "its on the boat" and worry about missing out

[DavidMcKenzie]

3 hours ago, Mike Harvey said:

 

I was involved in the original train planning for the Ravenscraig - Shotton  HRC services. As well as 2 x Class 86 traction we did look at a single diesel throughout which although running slower gave a better end to end time by avoiding the traction changeover from electric. In the end we followed the policy of not planning for diesels under the wires.  Class 87s were not included in the picture as they were preferred for passenger services, Freightliner and the Class 4 Speedlink trains in that order.

 

All very interesting stuff for someone like me who loves the railway, but has no practical knowledge of the everyday running. Do you know why two electric locos were needed in place of one diesel? It's always intrigued me. This seemed to be especially true of 86s, but 90s were also double headed at times during my spotting days as a child in the late 90s. Often a similar looking (to my untrained eye at least) working required only one 47 (and later 66). Was it simply power? Or reliability? Or could two electric locos run more efficiently in parallel than alone? 

[87023Velocity]

1 hour ago, ThaneofFife said:

Strange hattons have the twin pack dcc fitted at £314 but £300 direct on Dapol website.....bit of a bargain.

Think if we see an 81 or 85 in N i may switch from 00.

The DCC fitted from Dapol are £370. The £300 price is for DC only from Dapol.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[westie7]

On 21/07/2023 at 10:49, Adam1701D said:

Exactly right, Tom - we are using the same mechanicals as the 86 for now. If there is sufficient interest, I would like to look into an upgrade further down the line that could incorporate a speaker.

 

The Flexicoil suspension units will now be moulded integrally, so as to prevent them from pinging off and getting lost! 

 

What else can I add? We are doing 87101 properly with a modified roof and extra vent on the cab roof. The cross-arm pantograph and the high speed pantographs are all-new and much closer to scale than the previous versions.

 

Whilst the timing of the announcement seems odd, it is timed to coincide with the next edition of the NGS Journal popping through the letterbox. There is a lot of other development going on in N, so I hope we can muster up something for TINGS!

Excellent news.

And even better that the roof of 87101 will be done correctly.

On the subject of roofs, I'm hopeful of a better attempt at the BW HSP than the spares one available. Looking at these items day in day out I've never been convinced of the dimensions. 🙏

[Robert Shrives]

1 hour ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

 

All very interesting stuff for someone like me who loves the railway, but has no practical knowledge of the everyday running. Do you know why two electric locos were needed in place of one diesel? It's always intrigued me. This seemed to be especially true of 86s, but 90s were also double headed at times during my spotting days as a child in the late 90s. Often a similar looking (to my untrained eye at least) working required only one 47 (and later 66). Was it simply power? Or reliability? Or could two electric locos run more efficiently in parallel than alone? 

Hi Often down to ensuring tractive effort effective, electrics lighter than diesel locos so slipping on a bo - bo  compared to a co- co diesel more of a problem but two bo-bo locos likely to less affected by wheel slip on the Northern  Hills given heavy tonnages on offer. 

Robert   

[Supaned]

on a related note , will we see a re-run of DVTs and Mark 3 stock to be able to model the appropriate WCML trains?

[87023Velocity]

Another nice train which was a regular double headed job, either 86/4 & 87, pairs of 87s and think 85's and 86's:

 

Picture from Flickr.

 

 

 

The PTAs are being produced by Revolution Trains.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

Edited July 23, 2023 by 87023Velocity

[gedlee]

Will one of the locos in the Twin Set be a dummy?

Cheers,

Ged.

 

[Adam1701D]

3 hours ago, gedlee said:

Will one of the locos in the Twin Set be a dummy?

Cheers,

Ged.

 

No - both are powered.

[Mike Harvey]

On 22/07/2023 at 11:21, DavidMcKenzie said:

 

All very interesting stuff for someone like me who loves the railway, but has no practical knowledge of the everyday running. Do you know why two electric locos were needed in place of one diesel? It's always intrigued me. This seemed to be especially true of 86s, but 90s were also double headed at times during my spotting days as a child in the late 90s. Often a similar looking (to my untrained eye at least) working required only one 47 (and later 66). Was it simply power? Or reliability? Or could two electric locos run more efficiently in parallel than alone? 

 

Just echoing what Robert Shrives has written. The main factor was adhesion on the steeper gradients. A Co-Co diesel had better adhesion than a single Bo-Bo electric - 12 wheels gripping the track against 8 wheels. Two Bo-Bo electrics had better adhesion than one Co-Co diesel - 16 wheels against 12 wheels.  Adhesion translated into running speed. So to achieve a workable path for the train, two Bo-Bo electrics could produce a path slightly faster than a single diesel, and at the time at much lower energy costs. Two electrics had significantly more power potential on tap than a single diesel but that needed to translate into real tractive effort on a rising gradient and with a damp rail. Too much power and wheelslip soon fails to allow the locomotive to maintain momentum. Two electrics were certainly more reliable than a single Class 47. The BR policy was not to run diesels for long distances under the wires if it was avoidable.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Mike Harvey

[gedlee]

Thanks Adam,

A good buy then,

cheers,

Ged.

 

[montyburns56]

This has got me curious, just how similar is the 86 and 87 in terms of body shape? Do they have the same profile, curves etc?

[Jim Martin]

This is excellent news! I'm not even bothered about the lead time (within reason): my class 92 buying spree means that I haven't been able to afford any Farish 90s yet (although I'm waiting for grey or original green Freightliner, really) and I could still use a couple more 86s.

 

I'd really be after one or more of the noughties liveries, though: First BR blue w/ orange window surrounds,  LNWR black etc. They seem like the sort of thing that might be a dealer commission. 

[alan24]

Looking forward to 87012 in executive livery as long as they don't do what they did to the 73 & 86 and paint the top half black!

 

I assume it should be dark chocolate brown but in the artwork for the twin pack it does look suspiciously similar to the grey on 87006.

 

Plenty of time to research the correct colours so I will give Dapol the benefit of doubt and place my preorder. 

[Marke]

This is a great announcement for British N Gauge - Well done Dapol. I will not be able to resist the two BR Blue variants (87 031 and 87 101) as long as the BR blue and warning yellow shades are reasonably accurate - the 86’s were OK in this respect but the blue / yellow shades used on the ‘recent’ Class 73 (as an exclusive for Gaugemaster) were way off the mark in my view. Also I’m hoping that 87012 in ‘mainline’ livery will become available outside of the twin pack with 87006  as currently proposed. Along with the recently announced Class 56s, Rapido’s Peaks and Revolution’s pipeline of models it looks like 2024 is going to be a horribly expensive year!..and what if Bachmann then shrunk there class 117 high density DMU and class 85??

[47606odin]

Well, what to do, what to do. Was going to model up to date now scene in N gauge and have bought some stock to represent that era, but with 86’s, 90’s and now 87, including a proper 87101 (wrong pantograph from how I remember her) which was the first AC loco I ever had for haulage is making me think my layout might need to be timeframe free. The only downer is there is no space provided for a speaker (even if there’s no speaker actually fitted) as I do like sound. Admittedly not as great as O gauge sound, but it does bring a layout to life even if quiet

 

 

[Adam1701D]

The first Engineering Prototype shots are now online. Look at all that lovely, separately-fitted roof detail!

 

The bodywork is great but the pantographs are still a work in progress. 

 

Click HERE

[Steven B]

Great to see progress!

 

@Adam1701D how set in stone are the names/numbers that have been chosen? 

 

For fussy so-n-so's like myself there's a gap in the liveries around 1990 (+/- 2 years). 

87031 (BR Blue) received the extra jumpers around 1986.

87101 had it's panto' swapped circa 1983

87017 (Intercity) was repainted around 1993

87006 (large logo dark grey) repainted 1986

 

Would it be possible to change the name/number on 87017 Iron Duke - 87002 'Royal Sovereign' would be a good alternative, receiving the livery by May 1990.

 

I'll also be looking forward to batch two which I'm sure will contain BR Blue with the extra cables together with Intercity Exec (small yellow ends with yellow cab roof) and Intercity Mainline (full yellow ends). 🙂

 

Steven B

[Adam1701D]

Hi Steven - we are not able to easily change the numbers, as the details have been sent out to our retailers.

 

I feel the majority of customers will not be too worried about the exact dates a loco carried a specific livery. 

 

Rest assured, if this model is successful, there will be a further run, including more typical versions of Executive livery.

[Padishar Creel]

1 hour ago, Adam1701D said:

 

Rest assured, if this model is successful, there will be a further run, including more typical versions of Executive livery.

 

I really do hope this is successful, that the various cable ports/connectors are the correct size and in the correct cab position. I have quite a few on pre-order and do not wish to cancel because of "unforced errors".

 

Here's to an accurate model

 

es grüßt

pc 

[Steven B]

3 hours ago, Adam1701D said:

Hi Steven - we are not able to easily change the numbers, as the details have been sent out to our retailers.

 

I feel the majority of customers will not be too worried about the exact dates a loco carried a specific livery. 

Thanks Adam, I suspected that might be the case.

 

Are the different pantographs interchangeable and will they be available as spares? 

 

Did '17 Iron Duke have the red, roof mounted fire extinguishers when it was in Intercity livery? I've not been able to find photos of it in that livery with them fitted. Photos of it in Virgin livery before 2003 don't have them, pictures from mid 2003 onwards do have them (but in Virgin red/grey).

 

 

Steven B

Edited February 20 by Steven B

[Adam1701D]

I have been reliably informed that Duke did not carry the fire-bottles pre-Virgin. The artwork has been duly corrected.