Proposed new competitor for Eurostar

[Neil]

On 27/08/2023 at 11:19, hayfield said:

... The ability to just change trains I think is not an issue, As said Lille would be good as you can transfer to western and northern connections, but can you catch a TGV which bypasses Paris? ....

 

Not just TGVs; a few years ago Mrs R and I went to the South of France via Lille with a Thalys connection to Montpellier,  SNCF to Perpignan and a local to Collioure. We actually stayed in Lille rather than London on both the outward journey and return.

[Michael Hodgson]

40 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

It is a genuine advantage of air travel that you get rid of luggage at a bag drop and pick it up again at the other end. The disadvantage of course is if it gets misplaced or removed because the plane hits weight limits for cargo. Another advantage of paying more to travel in the good seats is that bags are tagged as priority and it is much less likely that you're left standing like a sore thumb waiting for a bag that isn't coming.

That is certainly convenient if it works, but going to Rome for a business meeting when your suitcase has gone straight back to Heathrow or offloaded at Dusseldorf with the clothes you need for the meeting is a real pain.  Having to borrow a shirt 2 sizes too small from a colleague doesn't create a good impression on the client - and I've had that happen to me twice in a week - the airline managed to deliver the suitcase just as I was checking out of the first hotel so I took it straight back to the airport only for them to lose it again on my flight to Milan (it turned up a week later in Luton).  But that was nothing compared to my colleague who had to go to the People's Socialist Republic (as it then was) of Romania for a fortnight's audit and they lost his luggage - there were no shops he could go out to buy replacement clothes.

 

There's a lot to be said for DIY baggage handling and keeping an eye on it as you can on a train!  And you don't have to hang about at a carousel for an hour after you've landed.

[Siberian Snooper]

When flying or overnight Amtrak trains, I always have a small backpack in which I carry essentials for 48 hours. The only time my case has gone missing was when I travelled on the Texas Eagle, from Chicago to LA. The case arrived around 8 hours after me, this is the only time it's happened, no doubt I have tempted fate, for my next trip.

 

 

[jjb1970]

The only time my bag went missing since I left the sea in 2004 was a trip to Tokyo which was around 2015 with BA (and in fairness to BA I've flown an awful lot of miles with them), and they gave me a pre-loaded £200 visa card to get a change of clothes and toiletries to see me through to the following day. During my sea career I had the unfortunate experience of spending quite a bit of time in the Netherlands offshore sector and flying Newcastle - Amsterdam. I think the first bags shuffled back to a later flight were those going to Amsterdam to prioritise long haul passengers. However, since then I've been very fortunate, and my bags are generally among the first onto the conveyor (another benefit of priority tagging).

 

I also carry a spare shirt in my hand luggage just in case, and these days it's not the end of the world to just go to a meeting in a clean polo shirt or something. People know the score and don't see much of an issue.

[fulton]

While this thread has moved abit to problems with long distance rail travel in general, will add our very recent experiance, starting and returning to Dusseldorf, we have just spent two weeks touring independantly by train and bus, mainly in Switzerland but dipping into Italy three times, only problems were with German parts, going we were due to change at Bonn Seigburg, for Basel, annoncement that as we were running late we might not make the connection, in which case we should remain on this train to Frankfurt Airport and change there, but they would let us know! as we arrive at Bonn no annoncement, lots of confused passengers, my wife could see the platform indicator which showed the Basel train was also late, so we got off and did make the connection. On our return from Basel we chose a train that did stop at Dusseldorf, nearing Koln there was an annoncement that as we were running late this train would not now be stopping at Dusseldorf or Dortmond, we should now change at Koln Messa, to a local train, all OK except, Koln Messa is an awkward station on two levels, with I think 12 platforms, Europes biggest Gamers convention was also closing next door, in my view all the platforms were dangerously over crowded, DB staff were on all the edges keeping people behind the white line, what the station did not seem to have was any trains!, ours was due to be 45 minutes late, not much happening on the other platforms either! there were also fully kitted Riot Police on each platform, they looked very out of place as most of the passengers were either teens or early twenties, all in good humour, considering the overcrowding and delays, I was pleased to get out of that situation, we are both retired but fit enough physically and mentally, to deal with these events but lots of other older people could not. The rest of our travelling in Switzerland and Italy went all as planned, was particually impressed with the train from Lucarno to Basel, so modern and well laid out.

[Nick C]

5 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

When flying or overnight Amtrak trains, I always have a small backpack in which I carry essentials for 48 hours.

I do that, and also when travelling with Mrs C, split the clothing between the suitcases, so that if one goes missing we've still both got something to wear.

1 hour ago, fulton said:

 long distance rail travel in general, ..., only problems were with German parts ...

My last long distance European rail journey involved five DB trains (along with Eurostar, CD and PKP). Of the five, just one was on time, and one of the others was over two hours late... the Czech and Polish trains were much more punctual! 

[jjb1970]

I have to admit that my last few experiences of rail travel in Germany didn't leave me with many positive thoughts and certainly didn't make me feel Britain had anything to learn from them.

 

The European rail system which has always impressed me is Belgium. The trains are basic and not especially fast (other than the HS services) but they're very frequent, reliable and it always seems to be a very logical and well developed service pattern providing superb connectivity.

[Ron Ron Ron]

The German railway has been suffering from reliability and punctuality problems for a good few years, resulting from lack of investment and crumbling infrastructure.

They’ve also suffered from multiple strikes in recent times.

The impression I get, is that in Germany, train services are now derided in a similar fashion to the old jokes about British Rail sandwiches.

 

Here’s a recent summary…..

 

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-deutsche-bahn-battles-crisis-amid-49-ticket-launch/a-65628256#:~:text=The total length of the,networks are filled to capacity.
 

 

.

[Neil]

7 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

.... The European rail system which has always impressed me is Belgium. The trains are basic and not especially fast (other than the HS services) but they're very frequent, reliable and it always seems to be a very logical and well developed service pattern providing superb connectivity.

 

Heartily agree and their ticketing policy is splendidly simple too.

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

The German railway has been suffering from reliability and punctuality problems for a good few years, resulting from lack of investment and crumbling infrastructure.

They’ve also suffered from multiple strikes in recent times.

The impression I get, is that in Germany, train services are now derided in a similar fashion to the old jokes about British Rail sandwiches.

 

Here’s a recent summary…..

 

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-deutsche-bahn-battles-crisis-amid-49-ticket-launch/a-65628256#:~:text=The total length of the,networks are filled to capacity.
 

 

.

Germans are culturally inclined to be even less tolerant than us of anything perceived as unreliable or inefficient.

 

Reliability, and to a lesser extent punctuality and service frequency are essential if you aim for customer confidence in your system.  It doesn't do to advertise a service level above what can be achieved almost all of the time in practice, bearing in mind that equipent does break down and windows are needed to allow essential maintenance works to be undertaken. 

 

Whilst the workforce needs to be remunerated adequately, strikes damage public confidence in the ability of the railways to get from A to B.  During the pandemic lockdowns in this country, railway workers were exempt as they were classed as key workers.  The police and the military aren't allowed to strike.  There is great unease about recent disputes in the NHS.  I suspect the main reason these groups have felt undervalued is that they have been been left behind by inflation. 

 

Governments need to reduce and ultimately to stop inflation.  Germans more than anybody, particularly those old enough to remember the Weimar republic, should appreciate that.  And it can be done.  Whilst nobody wants a repeat of the government that took over when Weimar eventually collapsed, Hitler did build autobahns and resuscitated their economy.  Just as Roosevelt's New Deal solved the mass unemployment on the other side of the Atlantic.  If we are to succeed in stopping climate change, it will take a radical change of political thinking in every administration around the world, and I believe a massively greater reliance on public rather than private transport.

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I have to admit that my last few experiences of rail travel in Germany didn't leave me with many positive thoughts and certainly didn't make me feel Britain had anything to learn from them.

 

The European rail system which has always impressed me is Belgium. The trains are basic and not especially fast (other than the HS services) but they're very frequent, reliable and it always seems to be a very logical and well developed service pattern providing superb connectivity.

This bring together two things rather neatly.  I have a very high opinion of SNCB which was made even higher by working with them and getting a close up view of their timetabling practice - all very connectional all over the country.

 

Any way lunching today with a friend he was asking about a trip to Ypres and how easy the journey would be because even via Lille (and a stroll between the two stations) it still involves a change of trains in Belgium.  I think I reassured him sufficiently for him to give it a go although perhaps not this autumn.  But he went on to tell us about something he'd found out about on his recent Rhine cruise - which should solve all those problems of having to cope with heavy luggage.  And this is how it's done -

 

https://thebaggageman.com

 

Worth a look although if you get to prices  you might find the cost a bit off-putting to say the least.  From what he said the people he met on his Rhine cruise who had used it were very impressed so it would seem to work

[burgundy]

11 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

This bring together two things rather neatly.  I have a very high opinion of SNCB which was made even higher by working with them and getting a close up view of their timetabling practice - all very connectional all over the country.

 

Any way lunching today with a friend he was asking about a trip to Ypres and how easy the journey would be because even via Lille (and a stroll between the two stations) it still involves a change of trains in Belgium.  I think I reassured him sufficiently for him to give it a go although perhaps not this autumn.  But he went on to tell us about something he'd found out about on his recent Rhine cruise - which should solve all those problems of having to cope with heavy luggage.  And this is how it's done -

 

https://thebaggageman.com

 

Worth a look although if you get to prices  you might find the cost a bit off-putting to say the least.  From what he said the people he met on his Rhine cruise who had used it were very impressed so it would seem to work

The reinvention of Passengers Luggage in Advance - PLA - only on an international scale?

I wonder if it means that we can be virtuous and travel by rail, while our luggage is probably going by air with DHL!

Best wishes 

Eric

Edited August 30, 2023 by burgundy

[The Stationmaster]

8 hours ago, burgundy said:

The reinvention of Passengers Luggage in Advance - PLA - only on an international scale?

I wonder if it means that we can be virtuous and travel by rail, while our luggage is probably going by air with DHL!

Best wishes 

Eric

Judging by a figure my friend mentioned yesterday I would think the luggage is being flown out by private jet and individually delivered by a hand picked courier.   £195 southern England to Köln for a couple of pieces of luggage.

[ruggedpeak]

Ski trains resurrected by Eurostar - have to change at Lille.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-12457681/Eurostar-launches-brand-new-ski-train-French-Alps-tickets-costing-99-theres-catch.html

[hayfield]

Having just returned from a trip to Italy, I saw none of the problems which the bringers of doom were claiming.

 

My outward train was the 8:00 am to Paris, thankfully M&S was open early and we brought some breakfast items about 6;0 am, after paying we wandered over to the Eurostar entrance, no queues and empty entrances. The ticket scanner was instant, I had a short wait (one person was in front of me) to load my case on to the scanner machine. Passport checking was very quick also and the French immigration just wanted to stamp my passport, within a few minutes we were in the departure lounge and there were plenty of seats. Exiting the platform at Garde du Nord was simple, the coach pick up facilities as usual were useless

 

Upon our return we had to go through firstly French then British passport controls, busier than 9 days previously but the queues moved quickly, as were the security scanner through all checks within 15 mins, a friend had an issue with the machine reading his ticket on his phone, another friend was stopper as his hip replacement set off the alarm

 

Back at St Pancras, the biggest issue was the rolling roadway had stopper and a French passenger with an overloaded trolley refused to moved (it was doing what it was designed for) a few of us helped out and all was sorted, sadly UK customs and excise were too busy to notice any of the passengers and it was a short walk into the station complex

 

I simply cannot see what all the fuss was about , both ends of both countries were fine and nothing like the issues we constantly had at UK and international airports

 

We did have a problematic journey outward owing to the rockfall blocking both the line and road tunnel the night before a lorry and car had a very lucky escape

 

https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/Watch-landslide-closes-major-train-route-from-France-into-Italy

 

Sadly for us our travel company decided not to take the French Railways advice to reroute us via Zurich to Turin, But our tour operator sent us to Chambury which is in the middle of the traffic chaos and we had two very long days. They were aware as we were on Eurostar (morning)  of the issues but failed totally to be proactive, rarely contacted their tour managers (2 groups were in transit) and failed to provide refreshments during several long delays. Once at the hotel we were treated very well throughout the holiday but had a hiccup due to kids putting rocks on the rails, the rail company arranged for refreshments on the train

 

Euronews, travel

"Italy border chaos: Train link to France may be out of action for two months, minister warns"

Edited September 6, 2023 by hayfield

[Ron Ron Ron]

17 hours ago, hayfield said:

…..Passport checking was very quick also and the French Customs just wanted to stamp my passport………

Customs usually have nothing to do with passport checking or stamping.

It’s the French Police directorate responsible for border control.

Similar to our Border Force (who are not related to the police).

Note: The Direction centrale de la police aux frontières is a directorate of the French National Police.

 

 

.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Ron Ron Ron

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Customs usually gave nothing to do with passport checking or stamping.

It’s the French Police directorate responsible for border control.

Similar to our Border Force (who are not related to the police).

Note: The Direction centrale de la police aux frontières is a directorate of the French National Police.

 

 

.

 

 

Sorry wrong word used, should be immigration, French customs not seen. However one of the party had their suitcases which had been sent on ahead held up, apparently they were locked !! 

[ess1uk]

On 29/07/2023 at 16:06, The Stationmaster said:

All a new entrant needs is a suitable trains (Eurostar - and DB to some extent - are the only people who have those) a suitable Safet Case to satisfy all teh various authorities involved; multi-lingual staff to comply with the language requirements of every railways infrastructure owner over whose lines the train will pass;  a set of Rules reflecting the requirements of those infrastructure owners and all relevant national legislation;   authority and able to be compliant with the transport security requirements of all countries involved as will of course being compliant with Channel Tunnel security requirements;   a pile of cash to create the necessary organisation to run and crew the trains as well as maintaining them.  Oh and track access plus no doubt station handling agreements to the heavily used termini at the London and pat ris ends of teh route both of which have s considerable problems poping with turnround dwell times and lack of platform capacity to achieve it.

 

Then having spent a considerable amount of money getting all of that in place which would take probably the best part of two years, or more, they can get their network access sorted and maybe even start e running trains.  It's no wonder DB gave up on the idea!

So not likely to happen?

[The Stationmaster]

On 10/09/2023 at 15:26, ess1uk said:

So not likely to happen?

I must admit to being dubious.  If DB couldn't pull it off - which I'd have loved to see happen - I always wonder if any newcomer has really thought through and established what they'll need to do before they say that they intend to do it.?  DB I think had the background to enable them to grasp the problems and potential pitfalls, plus the various costs before they announced their intention but even then they eventually backed out.

Edited September 12, 2023 by The Stationmaster
typo

[jjb1970]

On stamping passports, it seems a bit odd that they still stamp them. Wasn't the whole point of the expensive change to biometric passports with digital coding to allow them to be read electronically and give much greater visibility? I quite like collecting passport stamps but many places don't do it anymore. On my last last couple of visits to the USA my passport hasn't been stamped, Singapore stopped stamping passports, neither country has a soft immigration policy or open border. They track entry and exit electronically. 

[fulton]

5 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

On stamping passports, it seems a bit odd that they still stamp them.

Seems to be a UK/French thing, to save hassle I now travel on an Irish EU passport, like around six million UK citizens I was eligible to have one, hopefully will help when the extra restrictions come in, as I travel in the EU every couple of months.

[The Stationmaster]

9 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

On stamping passports, it seems a bit odd that they still stamp them. Wasn't the whole point of the expensive change to biometric passports with digital coding to allow them to be read electronically and give much greater visibility? I quite like collecting passport stamps but many places don't do it anymore. On my last last couple of visits to the USA my passport hasn't been stamped, Singapore stopped stamping passports, neither country has a soft immigration policy or open border. They track entry and exit electronically. 

Obviously some sort of change - in the past your passport was never stamped at Eurostar border controls.  But back when UK Border staff were checking passports on the train they would stamp it 'on request'

[jjb1970]

I can't help feeling it's just making a political point. The UK and EU countries all have the systems to log entry/exit electronically and they have portable passport readers no bigger than the contactless payment terminals used by shops for mobile immigration officer use. I go to a fair few countries that still stamp passports or insert adhesive entry permits for X days but it's getting less. The last few times I've been to Korea it was purely electronic too.

[hayfield]

12 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

On stamping passports, it seems a bit odd that they still stamp them. Wasn't the whole point of the expensive change to biometric passports with digital coding to allow them to be read electronically and give much greater visibility? I quite like collecting passport stamps but many places don't do it anymore. On my last last couple of visits to the USA my passport hasn't been stamped, Singapore stopped stamping passports, neither country has a soft immigration policy or open border. They track entry and exit electronically. 

 

 

Having just gone through the process its pure theatre, I must admit it reminded me of days gone by.

 

Certainly the French staff looked completely board both times, as you say duplicated the biometrics and has no affect on their migration 

 

 

[hayfield]

6 hours ago, fulton said:

Seems to be a UK/French thing, to save hassle I now travel on an Irish EU passport, like around six million UK citizens I was eligible to have one, hopefully will help when the extra restrictions come in, as I travel in the EU every couple of months.

 

Fulton

 

What hassle ? in the UK very quick and easy, at Garde du Nord EU passport holders may have got through a minute or two quicker but the whole check in, security and passport control took less than 15 mins, and all passport holders suffered most of the queues equally.

 

As for what is coming in, who knows. Certainly both ways were quick with no queues at St Pancras and short fast moving queue in Paris.

 

Scare mongers on here were predicting long queuing times. Looking at both France and Italy, they seem to be in more need of our £'s than we need their holidays

 

One of the Italian staff at the hotel we stayed at is coming back to the UK in October to work, he has worked in the UK for 10 or so years and has settled status. Last year moved back to Italy. He and his family are returning so his daughter can have a better education and for a more secure employment for him and his family.