How far north did Warships or Westerns ever get?

[KeithMacdonald]

15 hours ago, sandra said:

Hardly “enemy territory”. The Salop/Chester line was GWR and the Chester/Birkenhead line was joint GWR/LNWR.

 

You're quite correct, I should have said "scallywag territory".

Some say the GWR crews never dared leave their engine unattended.

Unless they'd come back and find it on bricks with the wheels missing.

 

[Steamport Southport]

5 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

You're quite correct, I should have said "scallywag territory".

Some say the GWR crews never dared leave their engine unattended.

Unless they'd come back and find it on bricks with the wheels missing.

 

 

Yeah. Like those lovely places called Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Cardiff, Swindon, London, Bristol, Reading, Plymouth, etc.

 

Been far worse places down south than I've ever been up north....

 

 

[Mike_Walker]

1 hour ago, Rugd1022 said:

Photos c/o Anthony Guppy collection, original photographer unknown...

 

D1004 in green livery at Crewe c.1963, with another unidentified Thousand...

 

 

D1020 in maroon livery departing Crewe on the 10.00 Manchester Piccadilly - Bournemouth job...

 

 

Interesting side snippet on the Crewe built Thousands - a couple of years ago I was in a taxi, coming home from a night job into Basford Hall Yard and as I got chatting to the driver he told me all about his previous life as a fitter and fabricator in Crewe Works, as well as working on the Brush Type 4s he did some bodywork on the D1030 to D1073 batch, he said it took them a while to get used to the 'stressed skin' construction on these locos. He recalled seeing the four green liveried examples (D1035 to D1038) being photographed outside the works before being sent down to Swindon for acceptance.

With a Palethorpes Sausage van (A Siphon G ? ) thrown in for good measure.

 

Crewe never really got the hang of the stressed skin construction on the Westerns,  Look along the side acutely of a Crewe-built example and you will find its a lot more "rippled" than the Swindon ones.

 

[Wickham Green too]

11 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

With a Palethorpes Sausage van (A Siphon G ? ) thrown in for good measure. ...

Nope - the Palethorpes-liveried Siphon  was a figment of someone's imagination ..... this is an LMS dia.1957 ( before anyone suggests dia.2001, that would have corridor windows on the battery box side shown. ).

[Halvarras]

36 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

With a Palethorpes Sausage van (A Siphon G ? ) thrown in for good measure.

 

Crewe never really got the hang of the stressed skin construction on the Westerns,  Look along the side acutely of a Crewe-built example and you will find its a lot more "rippled" than the Swindon ones.

 

 

I suppose Swindon had the benefit of experience gained building the Warships.....

[The Stationmaster]

35 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

 

I suppose Swindon had the benefit of experience gained building the Warships.....

And a good stock of some darned good filler!

[Mike_Walker]

5 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

And a good stock of some darned good filler!

Shooosh,  stop giving away trade secrets... !

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

You're quite correct, I should have said "scallywag territory".

Some say the GWR crews never dared leave their engine unattended.

Unless they'd come back and find it on bricks with the wheels missing.

 

By the early 1970s we got very careful to make sure that whenever possible we used 1000s on Inter-Regional freight trains because officially nobody but Western men could drove anywhere north of the Region.  Thus if you sent one out on a train and the crew's hours were running out of hours you got your loci back because none of the foreigners were passed to drive them.  

 

And if the weren't familiar with them and tried to reverse the loco there was a better than even chance that they could finish up with a problem on their hands.

[stovepipe]

On 05/08/2023 at 21:28, 50A55B said:

D1025 worked Morris Cowley to York on a car carrying special on 6/7 December 1974.

A Hymek reportedly got to York sometime around 1963/4 according to a report in a Railway Observer of the time. I’m a bit sceptical of the latter one.

 

It was a Cowley - Middlesbrough train and it seems Westerns worked it regularly for a week with also D1052 reported, but that could have beeen a typo I suppose. Dec 1974 also had D1016 working through to Stratford/Temple Mills on a mixed freight on the 20th.

 

Hymeks made a few trips off-region in the middle 1960s - with Derby, Crewe, Ipswich, Stockport and Colwick all visited, again with on car trains from Cowley, but also on general freight and parcels work.

[beast66606]

20 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

 

Hymeks made a few trips off-region in the middle 1960s - with Derby, Crewe, Ipswich, Stockport and Colwick all visited, again with on car trains from Cowley, but also on general freight and parcels work.

 

I have heard an unconfirmed report of a Hymek on a Cowley car train at Winsford on the down, presumably heading for Speke - the teller was a respected source (a driver) so take that as you will.

[Matt37268]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

And a good stock of some darned good filler!

Had an interesting experience of rubbing down 821 a few (well 25 years ago now!) years ago ago but back in 1998 there were still parts of it that carried some of the original filler, yellow undercoat, then every livery it had carried since construction up until its then current livery of BR Green, including DB Red! 

[Halvarras]

9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

And a good stock of some darned good filler!

 

Would that be the famous (infamous) 'Prestolith' - which was responsible for the exterior of weathered Warships resembling the surface of the moon?!

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, Matt37268 said:

Had an interesting experience of rubbing down 821 a few (well 25 years ago now!) years ago ago but back in 1998 there were still parts of it that carried some of the original filler, yellow undercoat, then every livery it had carried since construction up until its then current livery of BR Green, including DB Red! 

Does anything getting repainted, get stripped down to bare metal all over? Would have thought that the minimum amount of work necessary is the norm.

[Matt37268]

6 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Does anything getting repainted, get stripped down to bare metal all over? Would have thought that the minimum amount of work necessary is the norm.

I think one of the 24’s cabs at the NYMR did a few years ago there was a photo in one of the mags. 

[The Stationmaster]

9 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

Would that be the famous (infamous) 'Prestolith' - which was responsible for the exterior of weathered Warships resembling the surface of the moon?!

Might well be although I didn't know teh name of the stuff.   As you probably found out o it was quite thick in places!

[Steamport Southport]

9 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Does anything getting repainted, get stripped down to bare metal all over? Would have thought that the minimum amount of work necessary is the norm.

 

I remember the tanks from GWR Prairie 5193 having the remnants of at least six different liveries showing through the rust and flaking paint with the oldest dating from at least 1934!

 

They just painted over the old livery and that's going back to the so called "Good Old Days" where people assume they did a proper job.

 

If I remember correctly it was GREAT WESTERN, GWR Roundel, GWR, two different size of early crest and the later crest. 

 

 

Jason

[Fat Controller]

30 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Might well be although I didn't know teh name of the stuff.   As you probably found out o it was quite thick in places!

It wasn't war-surplus 'Zimmerit', was it?

[adb968008]

On 06/08/2023 at 22:34, rodent279 said:

I heard a rumour that there was an attempt get one of the preserved Warships for the Crianlarich-Oban shuttle back in the 1980's. Allegedly it was stamped on very firmly by someone high up in BRB HQ, and the class 104 "Mexican Bean" appeared instead.

D1041 and D5054 in 1987/8 had some form of initial application for mainline derogation, but i’m not sure it was serious. D1041 did get a spin though at Winchfield 150, when the 33 dragging it “failed” and it was used to push it through the up platform at quite some speed, and then position itself for the openday.

 

So many heads turned when it made full thrash through the up platform before returning into the centre line.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by adb968008

[Matt37268]

43 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

D1041 and D5054 in 1987/8 had some form of initial application for mainline derogation, but i’m not sure it was serious. D1041 did get a spin though at Winchfield 150, when the 33 dragging it “failed” and it was used to push it through the up platform at quite some speed, and then position itself for the openday.

 

So many heads turned when it made full thrash through the up platform before returning into the centre line.

 

 

55022 was used take over the train it was in convoy with at some point in the mid 1980’s, Skelton Loop to Tyne Yard I believe. 

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Might well be although I didn't know teh name of the stuff.   As you probably found out o it was quite thick in places!

 

I have a chunk of maroon paint on the filler 'liberated' from D828 somewhere in the loft, I'll find it again one day.......

[Rugd1022]

1 hour ago, Halvarras said:

 

I have a chunk of maroon paint on the filler 'liberated' from D828 somewhere in the loft, I'll find it again one day.......

 

Reminds of a story told by one of the staunch West Country hydraulic bashers in  the early '70s, where a Warship was being coupled onto another at Plymouth for a run over the South Devon banks, the driver buffered up a bit aggressively and a chunk of Prestolith fell off the cab side onto the platform! One of the reasons the stuff used to come off in chunks was down to the stressed skin construction method, over time the bodies would flex slightly, the stresses would find a weak spot and hey presto, cracks would appear and chunks would fall off.

 

Back on topic - I'd say that considering how much photographic coverage there was of the Hydraulic's early lives, if a Warship or Western had ever ventured as far as Birkinhead, someone somewhere would have pointed a camera at it and shared it by now. Mind you, I've said similar about the BNL Warships based at Bescot working in broad daylight between Stafford and Crewe on the WCML, and we've yet to see any photographic evidence of it...

 

Anyway, here's D828 at Salop for good measure, photo c/o Anthony Guppy's collection, original photographer unknown...

 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Rugd1022

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I remember the tanks from GWR Prairie 5193 having the remnants of at least six different liveries showing through the rust and flaking paint with the oldest dating from at least 1934!

 

They just painted over the old livery and that's going back to the so called "Good Old Days" where people assume they did a proper job.

 

If I remember correctly it was GREAT WESTERN, GWR Roundel, GWR, two different size of early crest and the later crest. 

 

 

Jason

Depends where it was painted and whar sort of engine it was.  Swindon;s painting was done on the cheap but on the 4-6-0s there was clearly some rubbing back and as apple green undercoat went on before the top coat.  Caerphilly was a very different place and they took care and great pride in doing a good job on everything with proper preparation before the top coat,  Oh and of course Caerphilly had the advantage of. a separate Paint Shop whereas Swindon's had been closed by Churchward and engine painting was done in A shop in the same bay where the engine had been worked on.

[caradoc]

On 08/08/2023 at 16:32, The Stationmaster said:

By the early 1970s we got very careful to make sure that whenever possible we used 1000s on Inter-Regional freight trains because officially nobody but Western men could drove anywhere north of the Region.  

 

It's fortunate none of your Westerns ever made it into Scotland, because one of our Power Controllers (sadly no longer with us) would have found a way of using it on Queen Street/Aberdeen services!

 

[The Stationmaster]

6 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

It's fortunate none of your Westerns ever made it into Scotland, because one of our Power Controllers (sadly no longer with us) would have found a way of using it on Queen Street/Aberdeen services!

 

I don't doubt that for one minute.  But surely any experience of Scottish built diesel-hydraulics ought to have put him off using such a thing - even a good one like a 1000 - on anything conveying revenue earning loads or passengers!

 

He sounds like one of the Controllers we had at Swindon where it came to light that he was putting particular locos on Cardiff - Crewe trains to suit what his mates were asking for.  Wasn't there someone in Control in Scotland doing something similar according to a tale I heard?

[johnofwessex]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I don't doubt that for one minute.  But surely any experience of Scottish built diesel-hydraulics ought to have put him off using such a thing - even a good one like a 1000 - on anything conveying revenue earning loads or passengers!

 

He sounds like one of the Controllers we had at Swindon where it came to light that he was putting particular locos on Cardiff - Crewe trains to suit what his mates were asking for.  Wasn't there someone in Control in Scotland doing something similar according to a tale I heard?

 

I seem to remember a story that a 50 was used for a service from Worcester on a Sunday afternoon because Sir Peter Parker boarded it at Charlbury to return to London for the week and he liked 50's

 

Anyway what's wrong with being 'Customer Focused'