Were any of them any good?

[Not Jeremy]

My pleasure.

 

Here is another shot featuring your great work with 1401, behind it the brass (Korean?) Pannier which I bought from Brian, which is also pretty nice.

 

 

I can almost feel another colliery coming on - possibly more detailed than the last....

[Steamport Southport]

9 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Another excellent groups of old models were the Airfix Aircon Mk.2 coaches which were amazingly well done for their day and can still be operated on a modern layout without looking out of place.

 

I've noticed is that when certain new generation models have been released such as the Bachmann aircon Mk.2, western autocoach and the DJM 14xx the response has been a bit 'meh'. I think a lot of the reason some are underwhelmed is because the old models were very well done and unlike with some other models there wasn't that huge transformation with the new generation models.

 

Problem with the Bachmann Autotrailer is it's too modern for GWR enthusiasts. It's pure BR era as they weren't built until 1951.

 

So I can quite understand GWR modellers not being exactly ecstatic about it. As much use as a DMU to anyone modelling the Big Four era.

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

8 hours ago, MikeCW said:

I sometimes wonder if the high-fidelity models of today will prove as robust and last as long as these Binns Road products.

 

 

 

Yes. Of course they will. If they are treated right. Don't forget that many of the "super detailed" models are now getting on for twenty or thirty years already, with Mainline and Airfix being over forty years or so.

 

If you consider that most of those old HD and Triang models are usually in terrible condition. Just look at the bargain bins at exhibitions and on eBay. There is also the fact that they made a lot of them. The ones that are in good condition are ones that have been looked after or in some cases hardly ever used.

 

 

Jason

[Neil]

As well as some of the rolling stock I have a bit of a soft spot for the Triang ready to plonk buildings. My current layout has a reworked water tower and a platform building modified to have a flat roof.

 

 

 

 

[MattR]

2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Oh yes, I completely agree with this, how very well put and not in the least diverting of the thread - this, to me, is the very core of the issue. Current modellers have literally 'never had it so good'.

 

This is one reason why I simply cannot take all the 'outrage' about diesel shapes, fidelity of grilles etc. that seriously...

 

 

 

Yes! That's why I'm unashamedly keeping an eye out for one of those dreaded Heljan "tubby duffs" (as long as it's not one of the ones with the mazak rot). All the hatred seems to have driven the price to reasonable amounts on the second-hand market.

Edited September 14, 2023 by MattR

[Steamport Southport]

2 minutes ago, MattR said:

 

Yes! That's why I'm unashamedly keeping an eye out for one of those dreaded Heljan "tubby duffs". All the hatred seems to have driven the price to reasonable amounts on the second-hand market.

 

Should have got in a few years ago as Hattons couldn't give them away. They really were at rock bottom prices. Especially the "unnumbered" versions. Which does prove that even though people often suggest it, unnumbered models don't sell.

 

Personally I would love to see the ViTrains Class 37 and 47 make a return. Then people will probably moan that they had too many parts to fit...  😆

 

 

Jason

[andyman7]

On 12/09/2023 at 23:35, The Johnster said:

 

.Anything from Trix, wrong scale.

.

As well as the A2, A3 and A4, The Trix E3001 was also to 4mm scale, so dismissing the entire range is a tad sweeping 🙂

22 hours ago, sncf231e said:

I agree when you look at UK products. I always felt and still feel sorry for UK model railway aficionados. The 00 stuff was and is far behind the continental H0 products I am used to.

Regards

Fred

And yet despite the mechanical quality and fidelity, HO coaches are still routinely offered in shortened length on the continent. One has to be quite careful is searching for scale length UIC coaches in HO that they are 303mm long.  

22 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Another one to add to the rubbish pile, the Triang Hornby 37.  Wrong bogies (off the 31), silly little pinhead buffers, raised line edges for the swp, window pillars that made Triang and Lima mk1 coach sides look scale, and those hideous marker lights; ugh!  Their 47 wasn't much better.  Beyond redemption.

 

 

15 hours ago, giz said:

The Triang EE Type 3 (class 37) isn't bad with a bit of work. I did this one forty years ago (was it really that long ago?). Lima Deltic bogies, new windscreens and fuel tanks plus big buffers.

 

One of mine, reposted from another thread. This was one of my 'cheap as chips' challenges in response to the wails that the hobby is a rich man's one now - it uses a scrap Triang 37 body that had been a bit butchered about already, mounted on Lima Class 37 bogies (which unlike the Lima class 50/55 bogies are the correct size and also allows the height to be lowered). This is by no means the ultimate that can be done, I have seen some amazing work with Bachmann chassis, new nose ends and etched front windows - all because (at least until the latest Bachmann model and the Accurascale one), for all it's faults the bodyside shape and quality of the mouldings on the Triang model was really very good. Yes, the windscreens and nose ends were terrible and it rode on the wrong bogies but it is certainly not 'beyond redemption'!

Edited September 14, 2023 by andyman7

[Tony Wright]

What an interesting thread this is!

 

Mention has been made of the likes of Tri-ang/Hornby, Palitoy and Lima diesel-outline models. For the prices asked, at the time, I thought they were very good value. And, perhaps more-important, they made excellent starting points for folks to do some actual 'modelling' (with the excellence of today's RTR, something now not really necessary - to the detriment of 'creativity' in our hobby?).

 

Anyway, some examples of what could (and still could) be done.........

 

Near a quarter of a century ago, when elder son Tom was in his teens, he produced the following........

 

 

 

This is an ex-Hornby EE Type 3 which he detailed, repainted and weathered, putting it on top of a Lima Class 37 mechanism.

 

Obviously not to current RTR standards, but an example of individual creativity - at a fraction of the price!

 

 

A description of how he produced this Deltic appeared in the Railway Modeller, Student Modeller section. 

 

It's a much-detailed, repainted and weathered Lima body riding on two Lima Class 37 bogies. We've never been able to determine quite what its maximum haulage capacity might be, because after 40+ carriages, the leading ones 'implode' on the end curves of the layouts we've tried it on! 

 

Neither the EE Type 3 or the Deltic run on Little Bytham because their wheel flanges are too coarse - they're just posed for the pictures.

 

 

This is a much-modified Lima EE Type 4, lowered on its bogies, re-wheeled (so that it'll go through 'scale' pointwork without riding on the chairs), a new set of etched window frames and a complete repaint. 

 

I've done some diesel mods in the past as well.......

 

 

A Palitoy Peak, changed from a Class 45 into a Class 46, with bufferbeams scratch-built and fixed (as they should be) to the frames, plus a complete repaint. However, I really should have done something about those 'Dreadnought-thick' window frames! 

 

Some RTR steam-outline bodies in the past were very good, even if their split chassis were duds........

 

 

This is an ex-Palitoy/Replica/Bachmann B1 body mounted on Comet frames, decent Markits wheels and driven by a can motor/gearbox combination, finally renumbered and weathered.  

 

And, the point of the above? 

 

Most of these can be obtained at source, as starting points, second-hand for relatively low (even cheap) prices, and, as intimated, all require some 'modelling' to have taken place. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[LNER4479]

23 hours ago, 31A said:

I have got a two-rail "Golden Fleece" stashed away somewhere, ...

 

At the bottom of the 'box mountain', perchance?

[Chris M]

In my view the great thing about all these old locos was that you could work on them and make them look a lot better. Only the very best modellers can improve on today’s locos. This means that a whole aspect of railway modelling has all but disappeared. Nowadays all I ever do is add the detail pack and give them a bit of weathering. 
 

Back in the day I gave pretty much every loco detailing and a repaint. The Triang Hornby hall wasn’t great. I remember removing the moulded handrails and the moulded name plate. Shortening the front bogie and the front of the running plate and fitting some more convincing motion. A lot of work but worth it. It was satisfying modelling which can no longer be done. 
 

Standards were very different in those days. A friend of mine converted a Triang Princess into a Royal Scot. That was a lot of work but at the time it looked good and was an acceptable model. The guy who did it had the full respect of his modelling friends . Of course today the same conversion would just make you a laughing stock.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Chris M

[MJI]

Triang Mark 1s and a razor saw are great.

 

I have a well detailed RMB and a few TSOs, a lot cheaper than Bachmann with Replica glazing.

 

I use the roofs and underfloors stripped for DMUs as well

[Steamport Southport]

6 minutes ago, Chris M said:

In my view the great thing about all these old locos was that you could work on them and make them look a lot better. Only the very best modellers can improve on today’s locos. This means that a whole aspect of railway modelling has all but disappeared. Nowadays all I ever do is add the detail pack and give them a bit of weathering. 
 

Back in the day I gave pretty much every loco detailing and a repaint. The Triang Hornby hall wasn’t great. I remember removing the moulded handrails and the moulded name plate. Shortening the front bogie and the front of the running plate and fitting some more convincing motion. A lot of work but worth it. It was satisfying modelling which can no longer be done. 
 

Standards were very different in those days. A friend of mine converted a Triang Princess into a Royal Scot. That was a lot of work but at the time it looked good and was an acceptable model. The guy who did it had the full respect of his modelling friends . Of course today the same conversion would just make you a laughing stock.

 

I agree in a way.

 

But there is still a vast array of locomotives and stock that has never been made RTR and probably never will be. I feel that putting effort into creating those is much more rewarding than messing about trying to make things that are readily available.

 

As an example of one of the models mentioned earlier. The Mainline/Bachmann J72. Many of us have one lurking about and often a non runner.

 

Why not use the Mainly Trains pack and convert one into a J71? I doubt any of the RTR boys would even think of making one of those. Also a good stepping stone into kit building and if do you mess up you haven't really spent much money on it.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/mt249/

 

Really must build my one!

 

 

Jason

[Neil]

Well I'm a bit peeved with this thread, despite a promise to myself to whittle away the projects pile some more before doing any shopping I've found myself parting with nine quid (inc p&p) for a Dublo full brake.

[Barry Ten]

I've always been pretty happy with the level of detail attained about 40 years ago, with the Airfix/Mainline releases of the late 70s/early 80s. They were such a step up from what had gone before. I can see where there've been improvements, but provided the overall shape is about right, I'm not all that bothered about the remaining shortcomings. That's why I'm still happily running the slightly updated Bachmann stuff from the 90s and early 00s. To my uncritical eye, a touch of weathering and maybe a few small extra details is all they need to look good at normal viewing distance. I've had some of the usual split-chassis gremlins, but the majority of my locos are still OK - as hopefully illustrated by these clips of the Bachmann Manor, Mogul and Modified Hall. They're running on DCC and still do the jobs required of them.

 

 

 

And there's plenty of older Hornby and Tri-ang stuff on my layout too, although mostly running on newer chassis.

[Rugd1022]

On 13/09/2023 at 16:16, Captain Kernow said:

I remember my Triang Blue Pullman, what a great model that was at the time.

 

I also remember seeing the real thing, in Nanking Blue livery, speeding through Sydney Gardens in Bath when I was small. Apart from the dramatic appearance with such a striking livery, the one thing that stood out for me at the time was the fact that it had another engine at the back!

 

Nostalgia and affection for the old Triang model was probably why I bought the Bachmann one, when it came out years later. I didn't do anything with it, however, just sat in the Nutkin store and eventually got sent to Hattons...

 

 

The Triang BP was cutting edge modern image at the time...

 

 

 

 

 

[Barry Ten]

The Tri-ang Hornby West Country can be tarted up quite nicely too. The ride-height and proportions are still good if you put it next to a more recent model.

 

 

[The Johnster]

With what looks like an overlong Triang BG in the background and suitably up-market cars, possibly Minix, in the car park.  And a Jinty, despite the Ratio GW signals.  The Triang BP featured an SR emu power bogie and generic B1s everywhere else, as did the Metrocam dmu. 

[Barry Ten]

Again, at the risk of spamming the thread with videos ... the Tri-ang BP had a lot going for it, other than the compromised ends, wrong bogies, generic underframe detail and lack of different coaches... however the moulded details were sharp and a good basis for improvement.

 

 

 

[westernviscount]

19 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

I really ought to gently weather it

 

This is my re working of the airfix auto tank. 

 

And my favourite model from yesteryear. 

 

 

Fair dues, it doesnt go anymore but it was my first proper train! A birthday present from 1988 or 89. 

[Michael Edge]

Plenty of old stuff is surprisingly good and accurate, I've put this one on here before but despite it being a very oddball prototype the body of this Triang 0-4-0T is perfectly accurate.

The less said about the frames the better though, this one has a completely scratchbuilt frame complete with Joy valve gear.

At the top of the thread there was a mention of a Triang EM1, they didn't do this but their EM2 was one of the best early models they made.

The biggest problem is the raised moulding where the orang/black/orange goes on a green one. It's too wide to line either side and not wide enough to line on top - it's not very noticeable when painted lined black or electric blue. Handrails replaced and flush glazing fitted, it's a bit short but definitely looks the part.

The Triang AL1 wasn't bad either, apart from totally incorrect bogies.

Modified bogies from a Hornby AL6, a few more details and nw our Stone-Faiveley pans fitted.

The Hornby Dublo BR BG has been mentioned above, this is really good being the same length as all the other HD Mk1s but correct in this case since the BG was on a 57ft underframe. If I see any more of these I will buy them.

 

 

[coronach]

On 13/09/2023 at 06:37, jjb1970 said:

A lot of older models were pretty good. They lacked the detail and features we take for granted, incorporated far more compromises and could be rather basic but Airfix and Mainline did some excellent models which can still be operated alongside new alternatives without being embarrassed. The Mainline Mk.1 restaurant was a great model for its day and the Warship soldiered on for decades and after being given a new mechanism by Bachmann remained a good model. The GWR Autocoach was nicely done and although the 14xx looks basic today it is still a good option for those on a budget.

In the 80's Lima did some excellent models in terms of basic shape. The Class 47 is still an excellent, if basic, representation of a Class 47 and captured the look of the type extremely well. The 73 was another one they did extremely well. 

Such models provide a low cost alternative for those who find new RTR too expensive or for those looking for modelling projects to detail up and improve.

I still have and operate a Lima Class 27 on Whinburgh, which I purchased for my original Mallaig layout. It must be more than 30 years old and retains the original mechanism. Although rather noisy, it does sound like a diesel. The basis shape is pretty good - all I did (30 years ago!) was flush glaze the cab and engine room windows, reduce the wheel flange depth and weather it. I’ll have to dig it out and take a picture

[Not Jeremy]

That's a nice job you've done there westernviscount.. 

 

There is something about your unit which I find appallingly attractive, I can't say I liked the real things but as a model it has a weird fascination and charm. I think you should get it going again!

 

Units as a whole are interesting, I love the diesel electric prototype and LEV 1 too.

 

Model-wise I have a few, seen here splashed across Rowley New Street, all of which I like, shortcomings and all.. 108, 158, 158, 159, all Bachmann.

 

[coronach]

On 13/09/2023 at 06:37, jjb1970 said:

A lot of older models were pretty good. They lacked the detail and features we take for granted, incorporated far more compromises and could be rather basic but Airfix and Mainline did some excellent models which can still be operated alongside new alternatives without being embarrassed. The Mainline Mk.1 restaurant was a great model for its day and the Warship soldiered on for decades and after being given a new mechanism by Bachmann remained a good model. The GWR Autocoach was nicely done and although the 14xx looks basic today it is still a good option for those on a budget.

In the 80's Lima did some excellent models in terms of basic shape. The Class 47 is still an excellent, if basic, representation of a Class 47 and captured the look of the type extremely well. The 73 was another one they did extremely well. 

Such models provide a low cost alternative for those who find new RTR too expensive or for those looking for modelling projects to detail up and improve.

Definitely agree about the Mainline Mk1 buffer restaurant car. At about the same time, Replica produced the Mk1 BCK and FO, which were good but lacked flush glazing. The problem with these new models was they stood out from the rest. IMHO the worst Mk1 coaches were produced by Mainline in their early years. The windows were completely out of proportion and the wrong shape. 

[coronach]

9 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

Yes, my first real modelling challenge to put the bufferbeam on the bogie and find out that ABS plastic requires a entirely different approach to gluing 😲

We now live in a golden age for R-T-R when undreamed of prototypes are being made en masse for our delectation. I mean, an SR 4-DD EMU ?? - probably the most I am ever going to spend on a model and it WILL be as close to accurate as makes no odds compared to what we older modellers have had to modify with our imaginations back in the day.

However, I will ALWAYS be grateful for the Xmas morning when I unwrapped both of these (from parents & Grandparents respectively) they were the best things ever and my greatest possessions for such a long time and ENTIRELY accurate as far an my 7 year old self was concerned because I was never trying to recreate the real railway because it was also there to enjoy as well - the model was just there to give an opportunity to continue enjoying the pleasure of trains into the dark evenings or when my parents couldn't take me to the local level crossing for an hour etc.

I actually can't remember the first time I looked at a model and became aware of its inadequacies.

Nowadays I buy highly detailed and accurate models to remind me of the railway in MY day and I consequently need them to be better than the representations available back in contemporary times. 

Ahh! Triang Big Big Train. I grew up with the gauge 0 Hymeks. I recently visited a gauge 0 garden railway that included a very fine battery operated GWR 14xx 0-4-2T that was constructed around the Hymek power bogie. The motor drove the small trailing wheel but it had no problems propelling an auto coach

Edited September 14, 2023 by coronach

[Barry Ten]

A few more golden oldies, all bought between 40 and 50 years ago.

 

 

 

 

A work in progress this, on the venerable 8750 body (Christmas present, 1973!) with a Bachmann chassis under it. Top feed removed, cab side sheets thinned, new handrails etc.

 

 

Of similar vintage, the Triang-Hornby Co-Co with slightly tweaked body on a Railroad (ex-Lima) chassis. The paint job and wonky lettering is from my early teens.

 

 

Lima Western Enterprise, bought the week it came out. Detailed and with a new can motor, but otherwise the same Lima gear train.

 

 

Lima 08, detailed and lowered, but otherwise much as bought. Again, a new can motor but the same Lima gear train. The extra large buffers were to handle tight curves on my old layout!

 

None of these models is anywhere near perfect but they've all been on a journey with me, so they have a lot of significance.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Barry Ten
Deleted superfluous photo