Is 294mm to narrow for O Gauge?

[meatloaf]

Well after seeing some great small 0 gauge layouts at stafford i have decided to press ahead with a layout.

 

Ive got some scale model scenery boards that are 294mm wide. Length wise ive got a few modules so could go to 2000mm which i think is around 6.5 foot. This is the max length so will have to include any fiddle yard.

 

What sort of thing can i do with that width? Ideally id want a couple of points ( not set track ) so i get a couple of sidings for shunting and maybe a kickback. 

 

Stock wise ive already got a few wagons and an 08. Id like maybe a J94 and a Heljan 02  when they arrive and one of the EFE Class 15 or 16 look nice as well 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[brossard]

I think you need to do some heavy thinking about this.  294mm is roughly 1' in old money, that's really narrow.  Is your maximum length 6' 6"?  What about fiddle yard or sector plate?

 

First thing is to print off turnout templates from Peco's site to get a feel for them.  I find them very long and haven't used any on my layout, opting for handbuilt.

 

For loco's, yeah the 08 will work and maybe the J94.  Don't know the Heljan 02 but I guess it's quite short.  Things like Cl15 are getting into quite long locos.  Make foamcore templates of the locos (length and width) you don't yet have, to see how they fit.

 

I see you haven't mentioned passenger ops, that's good IMO, stations and carriages take up a lot of space.  For a layout this size, goods ops should be considered.

 

There are threads here on small layouts, you should read through them.

 

John

[meatloaf]

15 minutes ago, brossard said:

I think you need to do some heavy thinking about this.  294mm is roughly 1' in old money, that's really narrow.  Is your maximum length 6' 6"?  What about fiddle yard or sector plate?

 

First thing is to print off turnout templates from Peco's site to get a feel for them.  I find them very long and haven't used any on my layout, opting for handbuilt.

 

For loco's, yeah the 08 will work and maybe the J94.  Don't know the Heljan 02 but I guess it's quite short.  Things like Cl15 are getting into quite long locos.  Make foamcore templates of the locos (length and width) you don't yet have, to see how they fit.

 

I see you haven't mentioned passenger ops, that's good IMO, stations and carriages take up a lot of space.  For a layout this size, goods ops should be considered.

 

There are threads here on small layouts, you should read through them.

 

John

Well if the 00 gauge layout comes up i can extend to 9ft, but thats the width of the bedroom so cant go any longer than that and thats a good 3ft wide

 

Passenger trains i was thinking maybe a DMU of some sort. 

[brossard]

Well, 9' can be made to work.  This layout, Trebudoc, always impressed me:

 

It is 9' long including sector plate.  It is 2' wide though.

 

John

 

[goldfish]

Depending upon your intentions, 2400mm x 400mm works for my shunting plank.

 

 

Remove the fourth track and it would squeeze onto 300mm.

[GWR57xx]

If you haven’t already found it, try searching for Inglenook layouts.

You could probably get a 5-3-3 type in your space, but with a headshunt rather than a fiddle yard.

O gauge quickly eats up space!

 

[Hal Nail]

6 foot is incredibly short. My prairie and B set is nearly 5 foot long. It's totally personal but when I only had 12 foot available I wouldn't have been satisfied so just built stock, although i appreciate plenty of people do make it work.

 

Having a scenic fiddle yard would be worth considering (ie you dont actually have one)

 

[Barnaby]

Hello meatloaf.

 

One layout that could fit your bill is Hillport goods and is one I am very fond of, a quick search will find it.

In sf315 [Steve] opening post he says he has some spare boards 10ft x 1ft, he does expand the 1ft by adding some thick foam insulation board pieces to hold some scenic bits on.

It's well worth a read. 

 

Best

 

[meatloaf]

2 hours ago, Barnaby said:

Hello meatloaf.

 

One layout that could fit your bill is Hillport goods and is one I am very fond of, a quick search will find it.

In sf315 [Steve] opening post he says he has some spare boards 10ft x 1ft, he does expand the 1ft by adding some thick foam insulation board pieces to hold some scenic bits on.

It's well worth a read. 

 

Best

 

Thats the layout that inspired me when i saw it at stafford last weekend. 

[brossard]

3 hours ago, Barnaby said:

Hello meatloaf.

 

One layout that could fit your bill is Hillport goods and is one I am very fond of, a quick search will find it.

In sf315 [Steve] opening post he says he has some spare boards 10ft x 1ft, he does expand the 1ft by adding some thick foam insulation board pieces to hold some scenic bits on.

It's well worth a read. 

 

Best

 

 

Ah, yes, that is an impressive layout in such a small size.

 

 

As for the addition of foam to widen it in places, I did the same thing with mine to squeeze buildings/scenery in.

 

John

[Izzy]

I don't know if this might provide any more ideas on how to get the quart into that pint but I made a tiny 0-MF plank for my little light railway locos a couple of years back. It's just 5' long, made of mountboard coated foamcore board, and with a 30" sector plate/fiddle that plugs in cantilever style. This also acts as the rest of the run-round loop. It's 11" wide. The track was of course handbuilt and uses Wye's to save space. A bit contrived but it works.

 

 

 

 

If you could widen your ideas to 15" and have more length to play with I can't see why you couldn't make somethng worthwhile in the space for use with small locos etc.

 

Bob

[sf315]

After noticing that Hillport Goods has been mentioned on this thread and the fact that your looking at small layouts. 

Heres another idea which is the current layout I am working on 

it’s based on parcels platform at a large station which is represented by the back platform in the pic. 

The parcels platform holds up to two BG length coaches in each platform. Also doubles up as a loco holding siding. 

Theres no points and a two road sector plate just under the bridge 

 

 

[brossard]

19 minutes ago, sf315 said:

After noticing that Hillport Goods has been mentioned on this thread and the fact that your looking at small layouts. 

Heres another idea which is the current layout I am working on 

it’s based on parcels platform at a large station which is represented by the back platform in the pic. 

The parcels platform holds up to two BG length coaches in each platform. Also doubles up as a loco holding siding. 

Theres no points and a two road sector plate just under the bridge 

 

 

 

That looks interesting - and short.  Wider than 1' though I think.  What are the dimensions?  I'm guessing some of the switching is done by sector plate behind the overbridge.  Is the platform a loading dock?   Inspiring idea.

 

John

[Dava]

You can do a surprising amount in O gauge in 6 x 1 feet and every extra bit of space helps. I built my Coxheath Sidings microlayout using foamboard in this space in 2015 and had a lot of fun with it. It’s successor, a US shortline, is now under construction in the 10 x 2ft (3000 x 600mm) space in my workshop. The Coxheath story is here with some re-added photos.

 

Dava

 

 

 

[t-b-g]

49 minutes ago, sf315 said:

After noticing that Hillport Goods has been mentioned on this thread and the fact that your looking at small layouts. 

Heres another idea which is the current layout I am working on 

it’s based on parcels platform at a large station which is represented by the back platform in the pic. 

The parcels platform holds up to two BG length coaches in each platform. Also doubles up as a loco holding siding. 

Theres no points and a two road sector plate just under the bridge 

 

 

 

A few months ago I had a vivid and very detailed dream that I was at an exhibition running a layout based on a similar idea.

 

There was a blue 03 shunting a blue ex LMS bogie full brake and a few 12t vans. It was based on the parcels bays at Lincoln Central but all that was modelled were the two tracks flanked by platforms, with some offices down the back and the end of the main station building across the end. There was a single point and the two tracks went down to one, which disappeared under a road bridge (moved nearer than it was in real life) onto a traverser fiddle yard.

 

I used to trainspot there in the 70s and seeing 03021 and 03022 pottering about shunting vans was a big part of the interest in going.

 

If you search for images looking for "Lincoln parcels bay" there are photos that show it nicely.

[sf315]

Yes it’s wider than a foot 

but my thinking is put the two 1 ft wide boards side by side and make a sector plate to go on the end. 

The layout I am doing is 7 feet long and at its widest point which is the scenic sector is 20 inches. 

Its a parcels platform and locos berth there as well. 

 

[Jeff Smith]

Your dimension restrictions do rather place your layout more in the working diorama category.  This would suit me as I like building modest layouts and rolling stock - they must function but just playing with them I find boring (and before anyone jumps in saying build a bigger layout, I have and it still bored me...)

 

Have you considered a standard gauge/narrow gauge exchange yard, maybe with some dual gauge track to add interest - both building and operating.  My layout below will have the next board (when I get a bit more space) with the GWR/GVT exchange sidings.  Scenic part currently is 40" by 16".

[GWR57xx]

On 30/09/2023 at 11:31, GWR57xx said:

If you haven’t already found it, try searching for Inglenook layouts.

You could probably get a 5-3-3 type in your space, but with a headshunt rather than a fiddle yard.

O gauge quickly eats up space!

 

 

Hi @meatloaf,

I don't know if an Inglenook style layout is of any interest to you, but since I suggested that it might be possible in your space I thought I'd see what I could come up with while keeping to your "maximum length" of 2000mm .

Unfortunately I couldn't make it work with standard Peco code 124 points - they're just far too long and shallow to fit within 2000mm.

I know you said "no settrack", but if you're prepared to cut them down a bit to reduce the length of the curved turnout then something like this would be possible:

At the start of the Inglenook "game" there would be five wagons distributed between sidings C & D, with the platform road B clear.

As there is no run-round the engine would have to propel the three additional wagons into the platform road.

Then the "game" begins. 

There is room to prepare the five wagon train in the platform road, but not enough length on the headshunt (which could be a scenic cassette to reduce the need to handle stock), which here is 700mm long (enough for a small engine like an 08 plus 3 short wagons).

You could also have a separate cassette for the engine.

 

To make it perhaps a little more interesting you could try:

Here the right hand 300mm is a traverser (long enough for an engine or two short wagons).

The "game" begins with two wagons on each of traverser roads C & D plus one on the fixed part of D.

The engine pulls the three wagons into the platform road (turn the cassette round!) and then "runs round" by driving onto traverser road B. The traverser is then pulled out so that B aligns with C (which is now empty). The engine drives out to the headshunt A. The traverser is pushed back to its starting point and shuffling can commence.

 

[brossard]

53 minutes ago, GWR57xx said:

 

Hi @meatloaf,

I don't know if an Inglenook style layout is of any interest to you, but since I suggested that it might be possible in your space I thought I'd see what I could come up with while keeping to your "maximum length" of 2000mm .

Unfortunately I couldn't make it work with standard Peco code 124 points - they're just far too long and shallow to fit within 2000mm.

I know you said "no settrack", but if you're prepared to cut them down a bit to reduce the length of the curved turnout then something like this would be possible:

At the start of the Inglenook "game" there would be five wagons distributed between sidings C & D, with the platform road B clear.

As there is no run-round the engine would have to propel the three additional wagons into the platform road.

Then the "game" begins. 

There is room to prepare the five wagon train in the platform road, but not enough length on the headshunt (which could be a scenic cassette to reduce the need to handle stock), which here is 700mm long (enough for a small engine like an 08 plus 3 short wagons).

You could also have a separate cassette for the engine.

 

To make it perhaps a little more interesting you could try:

Here the right hand 300mm is a traverser (long enough for an engine or two short wagons).

The "game" begins with two wagons on each of traverser roads C & D plus one on the fixed part of D.

The engine pulls the three wagons into the platform road (turn the cassette round!) and then "runs round" by driving onto traverser road B. The traverser is then pulled out so that B aligns with C (which is now empty). The engine drives out to the headshunt A. The traverser is pushed back to its starting point and shuffling can commence.

 

 

I believe I mentioned early on that I thought standard Peco 0 turnouts would be too long.  If @meatloaf were to be really brave he could handbuild turnouts using either small or medium radius Peco 00 turnout templates.  These have to be blown up by 199% to compensate for the narrow gauge.  I did that for my layout crossover, initially using small radius which didn't work well and then changing to medium radius which did.

 

Comparison between set track and medium radius turnout:

 

 

Set track on the left.

 

John

Edited October 1, 2023 by brossard

[EmporiaSub]

I’ve got 3 of those SMS boards, and have a working diorama / shunting plank in O scale.

Attached are some photos of what is possible.

[Bungus the Fogeyman]

This nonsense may be of interest to you. Similar principle to Steves parcel thingy........

 

Disgusting of Market Harborough

[F-UnitMad]

14 minutes ago, Bungus the Fogeyman said:

This nonsense may be of interest to you. Similar principle to Steves parcel thingy........

 

Disgusting of Market Harborough

Saw your layout at Guildex Kettering back in March. Loved the window latch mechanism for the sector plate!! 😁👍

 

My own submission to the 'minimal O layout' Club, "Lyddlow Goods"; 4ft 8inch long (including fiddlestick) & about a foot wide. No points, but ideal for half-an-hour's relaxing shuffling of wagons....

 

I have exhibited it at a couple of local Shows, with the tag-line "No room for a layout? Try O Scale!!"

 

It was actually built by an ex-member of RMweb, who named it "Lyddlow" because it's a "Little O" layout... 🙄 yes I know, terrible pun isn't it?! 🤦‍♂️😂

[37114]

Peasevern Yard scenic section is less than 5ft, you could shrink it further if you shorten the headshunt which is designed to accommodate a class 37. I use cassettes to complete the run round loop saving space, my fiddle yard is longer than it needs to be.

 

Basic track plan, the board is 15inch wide but could be narrower

 

 

Completed layout

 

 

 

[meatloaf]

As a bit of an update on this.

 

Ive sold off all my 00 stuff and purchased an EFE Class 15, a couple of wagons and a few lengths of flexi. My DCC controller has been retained as have the 21 and plux22 decoders that we re in some of the locos.

 

I have a maximum of 9ft x 38 inches available, but dont really want to put track more than 2ft back so i can reach an easily uncouple stuff.

 

The 9ft must include a short fiddle yard. so im thinking 3ft fiddle and 6ft layoput. Hopefully the 3ft will hold the class 15 and 3 small 4 wheel wagons or the Class 15 and a single CCT or MK1 BG

 

I think a run around will be difficult in the space. I deally i dont want to use more than 3 points. Still really inspired by hillport goods so may go for a similar trackplan. Will probably be using streamline points.

 

Future locos id like are an 08, a J94 and a single car DMU. Id love a Class 26/27 and a class 20 but DCC fitting them looks difficult and expensive.

 

[Jeff Smith]

4 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

The 9ft must include a short fiddle yard. so im thinking 3ft fiddle and 6ft layoput. Hopefully the 3ft will hold the class 15 and 3 small 4 wheel wagons or the Class 15 and a single CCT or MK1 BG

If you use a sector plate fiddle yard like my turntable above you can put a point on the centre road which is the off-stage other end of the loop.