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LT wagons and brake vans


Jeff Smith
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What 4mm kits or RTR items are currently available?  I am only aware of South Eastern Finecast listing a Met brake van and Met ballast wagon, I assume white metal, are these any good?  I would be building in P4.

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Another brake van kit can be obtained from Smallbrook Studios

https://www.smallbrookstudio.uk/store/4mm-00-Metropolitan-Rly-20ton-rebuilt-Brake-Van-kit-p235270145

RT models do a hurst Nelson brake van kit along with a rail carrier.

https://www.rtmodels.co.uk/rt_models_034.htm

No other options come to my mind but I’m sure others maybe have some suggestions.

OliverSR

Edited by OliverSR
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Also don't forget that LT had a handful of BR standard type brake vans. Later used as barrier wagons.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36034969@N08/38731470644

 

Bachmann made one a few years back. Pop up quite often on the second hand market.

 

There was also one in a train set with a different number. Quite a few were split up.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/52532/bachmann_branchline_30_076_midnight_metropolitan_with_32_217_style_london_transport_maroon_pannier_differen/stockdetail

 

 

Jason

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Looking at photos of Panniers at work there were some movements involving BR open wagons, usually with two LT brake vans.  Trips to the Watford tip seem to have only been with LT wagons, but again with brake vans at both ends.

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If you search for pictures of the last freight working to Chiltern Court (the siding off Baker Street) you will see the brake van which was used on that working. Although I have not carried out much research into LT freight I would be interested to know more about this vehicle. Perhaps to run behind my Heljan Met loco.

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1 hour ago, MyRule1 said:

If you search for pictures of the last freight working to Chiltern Court (the siding off Baker Street) you will see the brake van which was used on that working. Although I have not carried out much research into LT freight I would be interested to know more about this vehicle. Perhaps to run behind my Heljan Met loco.

It's number B554 (Metroplitan number 25), built by the Metropolitan in 1914 from a 22ft rail wagon. The London Underground Railway Society used to sell a drawing, which might be the drawing linked to on this page: https://g3forum.org.uk/index.php?topic=2810.0

 

B553 was built at the same time, and Jim Snowdon in Metropolitan Railway Roilling Stock implies they were the same. He includes a drawing (a different one - and he says the two sides were mirror images of each other - in other words, both doors are towards the same end) and an excellent photograph of B553. In the text they are described as 14 ton vans, but in his stock list he has them as 10 tons, which I expect is a mistake; the 10 ton vans were a lot shorter. Both vans were scrapped in 1969.

 

Someone else on RMWeb was making a model, and here is a thread with some nice 3D views:

Edited by Jeremy Cumberland
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That was my project a while back and the photo on the preview was a 3D printed prototype in primer. It was run as a resin kit by Phil Radley so the moulds were with Radley models I think but unsure if/when that range will re emerge. I do still have the 3D print files somewhere so could print one but it would probably not be a cheap print these days and still requires some added detailing like roof vents and buffers.

 

That was drawn up when I was not working full time so haven’t really designed any similarly complex files for models since due to time.

 

OliverSR

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Were all the LT freight trains un-fitted?  The original L90 and L91 retained their vacuum hoses when delivered from Swindon and when scrapped a few years later.  I do not have my Red Panniers to hand but I believe vacuum pipes were removed from later Panniers, and maybe from the ex-Metropolitan E and F classes?

 

So were the LT freight stock and brake vans all un-fitted?

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LT barely ran freight trains of their own, the former Metropolitan Railway freight services being taken over by the LNER in 1937. What was left was engineers' trains, and it was for these that the panniers were acquired. I don't think engineers' trains ever used vacuum brakes.

 

Edit: I'm not sure what the Chiltern Court workings were classified as, freight or engineers'. These of course continued into the 1960s, as mentioned earlier in this thread. They were unfitted.

Edited by Jeremy Cumberland
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 08/10/2023 at 07:23, OliverSR said:

That was my project a while back and the photo on the preview was a 3D printed prototype in primer. It was run as a resin kit by Phil Radley so the moulds were with Radley models I think but unsure if/when that range will re emerge. I do still have the 3D print files somewhere so could print one but it would probably not be a cheap print these days and still requires some added detailing like roof vents and buffers.

 

That was drawn up when I was not working full time so haven’t really designed any similarly complex files for models since due to time.

 

OliverSR

 

@OliverSR I'd also be interested in this for my own Chiltern Court layout, should it become available as a kit or as a file. 

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@298 if when the Radley models stocks are sorted through and any are released then you may be able to get hold of a full kit. Otherwise I might be able to try printing one off on my home printer I now have or run one off via shapeways or imaterialise but might cost a lot for what is essentially a scratch aid. You’d still need to buy buffers, roof vents, axlebxoxes, springs and wheel sets, also the step boards would need scratch building.
So if you or any others want to discuss further then let me know via PM.

OliverSR

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By chance I came across an interesting item regarding GWR "Met" brake vans, used for the fish traffic from Acton to Farringdon/Smithfield. There was a batch of short GW brake vans built for this traffic because of limited siding space in Smithfield. I forget where I saw the link, I was searching for Siphon G buffers and that led to a GW site and it was on there somewhere! 

 

Link here: http://www.gwr.org.uk/aa7-brake.html 

 

I'm not saying these were used on LT services per se, but would make an interesting addition to a Widened Lines layout.

Edited by roythebus1
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Having ordered a couple of RT Hurst Nelson brake van kits it was time to start the first (second on back-order).  It will be P4 and already features a rocking axle arrangement.  Going together well so far, one ducket bent and installed.  The floor and sides were just bent up at half etches.  The ends are slotted into the floor but are just a butt joint at the corners - I thought it would be a problem but was not, once soldered into the floor the edges were held in place and easy fillets made.  White metal castings are included for the outer ends and floors as well as buffers, springs, etc.  So far a nice kit with clear instructions but I suspect not for a beginner to soldered etched construction.

 

IMG_2596.JPG.26b81530da764adf825cc4515512c775.JPG

 

IMG_2597.JPG.4201749ab64d9c933af93cfe54c336f9.JPG

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these are the original "Set" Bachmann wagons - bought from the London Transport museum in Covent Garden around 1995 in a boxed set with a standard BR 16T mineral wagon, LT livery pannier, circle of track and a transformer

 

Brake van is B582 not B581 as currently sold, flat wagon is BW.231 not BW.260 as current set

 

2024-02-08 18.13.16.jpg

2024-02-08 18.12.03.jpg

Edited by Captain Slough
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I see no reference yet to the FB-type "flat brakes" which LT used for some years.  IIRC these were 4-wheelers with a small guard's compartment and a small open area for the carriage of tools , coal or anything else.  

 

FB578/579 were built in 1936 and weighed 18 tons 

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I designed 7mm versions of the 10T flatwagon and the associated 10T Brake van [both as preserved at Quainton Road] back in 2014. They were marketed by Phil Radley but I don't recall him ever wanting them in 4mm.

 

 

Screenshot 2024-02-08 224459.jpg

Screenshot 2024-02-08 224601.jpgAlthough the brake van was designed originally to operate with LT's diesel loco DEL120, it was later modified with a somewhat larger cab [as per the current form] which then prohibited it from operating through tube tunnels - This of course applied to both the converted brake vans. 

Edited by Arun Sharma
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Some further work on the Hurst Nelson van.  A lot of small parts soldered on to form the step boards etc.  Also the W irons bent up and bearings soldered in, brake hangers yet to be added.  One W iron is rocking - both held in place with small bent tabs.  The white metal ends and floors - shown just dry assembled - will add considerable weight.

 

image0.jpeg.e40e19c62f879f5cae830e9abbfb7598.jpeg

 

image1.jpeg.5a95ce93e3e71f91ba3ec421a4ab16c1.jpeg

 

image2.jpeg.0314694b689480665024eba5bd6de496.jpeg

 

 

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A few years ago, I hacked a Hurst-Neilson brake out of a Parkside MR brake van (PC58, d1659) for a friend's LT layout

 

4mm (2 planks) out of the cabin length and 1mm out of each veranda length. Roof, floor and solebars reduced by 6mm overall, wheelbase now 10'6" (42mm).

 

Duckets made from 4 laminations of 20 thou plasticard, then shaped. Outer veranda ends infilled with Evergreen scribed O gauge 'car siding' sheet.

 

One thing I didn't do (and now wished I had) was correct the cabin ends. 

Decals are Modelmasters.

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Progress on the RT Models Hurst Nelson.  Raw metal and after a coat of sprayed grey undercoat.  A little more work required on the roof fit!

 

This is a good well thought out kit.  I have a second on order as most LT freight trains had two brake vans,

 

IMG_2605.JPG.1c780ef8a9415c138eb1b2eac6103b74.JPG

 

IMG_2610.jpg.30e876c72f96b8171248747d95ddf867.jpg

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