Hayfields 3D printed track workshop

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, ISW said:

 

Me thinks not, although I'm open to being proved wrong.

 

With round posts (instead of rectangular), if you imagine all the baseplates on a curved diverging rail installed, they'd be at any-old-angle. That's until the rail is threaded through the baseplates ##. At this point the rail would simply take up a curve that goes through all the baseplates (assuming the holes are in the right place, of course) and the baseplates would automatically rotate to be at right-angles to the rail (they being a close fit on the rail foot).

 

## I gather you slide the baseplates onto the rail, and then install into the bearers. I've detailed as above to to explain my point 

 

Ian

 

Ian

 

Please look at the video I posted made by James Walters, your assumptions are totally wrong and (probably my fault with a bad description) have not understood how the system works. Although you can print whole chairs, the system has been designed so than a turnout can be built without threading chairs. Part chairs are put into the timbers

 

 

 

The above photo shows the two options, for ease of build part chairs are plugged into the base, the rail is formed and bent into shape if necessary, the secondary plugs lock the rail in place. To maintain the gauge exactly each chair is automatically placed at the correct angle. No track gauges are required other than to check the gauge if you wish to

 

There is an option to thread whole chairs on to a rail if preferred, but this action is one of the main deterrents of why people do not want to build their own track. James is making a second video which concentrates on printing and assembling a turnout in the coming weeks and may become clearer

 

A rather long thread in Templot showing the development of plugged track, it may be worth starting at the latest post or a page half way through as the thread covers laser cutting the timbers from plu and also a option to mill the timbers from sheet material, plus talk on various printers. 

[Captain Kernow]

This 3-D printed track malarkey does seem to be the coming 'thing', but I am very interested to understand what the long-term stability of the printed chairs (and other printed components) will be, as I am concerned about brittleness and the possibility of chairs breaking etc.

 

Thanks.

 

[hayfield]

31 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

This 3-D printed track malarkey does seem to be the coming 'thing', but I am very interested to understand what the long-term stability of the printed chairs (and other printed components) will be, as I am concerned about brittleness and the possibility of chairs breaking etc.

 

Thanks.

 

 

I have had the prototype for over a year unpainted without any ill effects, I have had a painted 3D loco body for a couple of years, again its fine

 

Wayne has been selling his track kits for sometime again without any ill effects

 

Going back 10-15 years people were still saying the same about ABS plastics and they had been around for 25 years

 

Martin has been designing this system for some years and I am sure he had to be certain about the longevity of the materials. That is why 2 systems are in use for the smaller scales, using the best material for the job

 

I must say many of the diehard anti Templotters were changing their tune about Templot once they saw 3D printed track, simply both a show stopper (James was inundated both days) and a game changer. At the start of the plug track I was sceptical about it after my first encounter with a 4 mm scale product on Shapeways. But then I have been using Modelu parts for years.

 

Not everyone will be convinced and as usual happy to plod on as they always have. Momentum is building up and I am happy to go on a journey with it. Not only with 4mm scale but also with 7mm where the detail will really stand out  

[KeithHC]

I have just spent a couple of hours with James video.I have gone from zero to downloading a timber base in that time. The only problem I had was getting 3D builder to download. I am now looking forward to James next video for turnouts. Also need to get a resin printer.

 

Keith

[hayfield]

30 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

I have just spent a couple of hours with James video.I have gone from zero to downloading a timber base in that time. The only problem I had was getting 3D builder to download. I am now looking forward to James next video for turnouts. Also need to get a resin printer.

 

Keith

 

 

Keith you are a bit ahead of me, I am about to set up my FDM printer, I have come to the conclusion I must get a resin printer and after watching James video I will order one of the cheap ones as they seem to work well and a good entry level machine, especially as I just want to print chairs

 

[KeithHC]

5 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

 

Keith you are a bit ahead of me, I am about to set up my FDM printer, I have come to the conclusion I must get a resin printer and after watching James video I will order one of the cheap ones as they seem to work well and a good entry level machine, especially as I just want to print chairs

 

I must admit I have had my printer for three years. But it’s only been the last six or so months that I have managed to get a handle on design work and fully use the printer. Some of my work is in my thread “Oh for a good thump”. Just as a try I am going to print out a timber base in the morning. Currently the printer is working on a Ffestiniog coach.

 

Keith

[hayfield]

 

Two days early the printer arrived

 

 

All very neatly packed

 

 

And with the help of a YouTube video, put together, In practice only 2 screws needed screwing up but the instructions are brief and could be a bit better. Having said this its very easy to assemble

 

Next up is setting the machine up, which entails levelling up the build plate to the printing nozzle, trouble is I have a busy week ahead of me and not much free time

 

I have also ordered a resin printer as it was always my intention of having both as the chair detail is far better in resin in the smaller scales, but it stays in the box until I get the FDM printer up and running printing bases

[polybear]

On 08/11/2023 at 09:48, Captain Kernow said:

This 3-D printed track malarkey does seem to be the coming 'thing', but I am very interested to understand what the long-term stability of the printed chairs (and other printed components) will be, as I am concerned about brittleness and the possibility of chairs breaking etc.

 

Thanks.

 

 

I must admit to having the same concern....

.....until I had a very rare "lightbulb moment".....

If a chair(s) were to become brittle then all you'd need to do would be to print some more then remove the damaged chair(s) and plug a new one in.  Doesn't come much easier than that.

As for sleepers/timbers - well they're under no load at all so even if they did become brittle I suspect you'd never realise it anyway.

 

I've just been watching some of the videos mentioned above and it all seems rather interesting; I'd be keen to see examples of the system again and now wished I'd spent a bit more time at S4um to study them closer.

 

Brian

[martin_wynne]

On 07/11/2023 at 21:22, ISW said:

 

Me thinks not, although I'm open to being proved wrong.

 

With round posts (instead of rectangular), if you imagine all the baseplates on a curved diverging rail installed, they'd be at any-old-angle. That's until the rail is threaded through the baseplates ##. At this point the rail would simply take up a curve that goes through all the baseplates (assuming the holes are in the right place, of course) and the baseplates would automatically rotate to be at right-angles to the rail (they being a close fit on the rail foot).

 

## I gather you slide the baseplates onto the rail, and then install into the bearers. I've detailed as above to to explain my point 

 

Ian

 

thanks for all the comments on plug track.

 

apologies for my one-finger lower case typing. i have severely injured my left arm and it's the best i can do at present.

 

why rectangular plugs?

 

the default recommended option at least for 4mm and above is that you DON'T slide the chairs on the rail.

 

the chairs are fitted in the timbers FIRST, which means the rail isn't there to align them.

 

the rail is then dropped onto them, and the loose jaw part is inserted to clip the rail into place.

 

round plugs would not be large enough to contain the deep slots needed for the loose jaw pins.

 

the chairs clip into the timbers with a click, and this is much easier to design with rectangular plugs. no glue is needed.

 

plug track is just one man's idea. a lot of folks seem to like it. but now that 3d printing of track is taking off i'm sure others will be coming up with different ideas.

 

there is a lot more information about plug track on the templot club forum.

 

martin. 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by martin_wynne

[Stanley Melrose]

Get well soon, Martin!

[KeithHC]

John all the best with the setup. Is there an option to add a level sensor on you machine. My Ender3 pro now has such a probe and it’s now just switch on and leave the machine alone to do its thing. Do you have someone local to you who has the same machine they could assist. I am very lucky in that my son-in-law has the same machine as me and a lot more experience of 3D design and printing. But when it comes to the future resin printer then we will both be scratching our heads.

 

I tried a test print of a timber base today but had a few issues will try again in the morning. It might have been finger trouble.

 

Keith

[hayfield]

5 hours ago, polybear said:

 

I must admit to having the same concern....

.....until I had a very rare "lightbulb moment".....

If a chair(s) were to become brittle then all you'd need to do would be to print some more then remove the damaged chair(s) and plug a new one in.  Doesn't come much easier than that.

As for sleepers/timbers - well they're under no load at all so even if they did become brittle I suspect you'd never realise it anyway.

 

I've just been watching some of the videos mentioned above and it all seems rather interesting; I'd be keen to see examples of the system again and now wished I'd spent a bit more time at S4um to study them closer.

 

Brian

 

Brian

 

Thank you very much for answering the question especially your lightbulb moment, reusing the timbers as you described could also be used to change chairs from 3 bolt (the only version available at this moment to 2 or 4 bolt. Or you could just replace the affected parts as unlike other systems these are push in parts not glued. I tried an idea of gluing an ABS chair to a PLA timber, once the solvent has set its rock solid 

 

As for strength. Look at the ABS chairs from the 2 main suppliers, you can easily pull a piece of rail from 1 chair, try doing it with 20+ chairs attached. There is no glue involved with C&L or Exactoscale chair system, yet it is very strong once the turnout is built. I have a section of track from a prototype printing over a year ago, its rock solid, my finger nail would give way before the chairs

[hayfield]

24 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

John all the best with the setup. Is there an option to add a level sensor on you machine. My Ender3 pro now has such a probe and it’s now just switch on and leave the machine alone to do its thing. Do you have someone local to you who has the same machine they could assist. I am very lucky in that my son-in-law has the same machine as me and a lot more experience of 3D design and printing. But when it comes to the future resin printer then we will both be scratching our heads.

 

I tried a test print of a timber base today but had a few issues will try again in the morning. It might have been finger trouble.

 

Keith

 

Keith

 

Thank you, but I am not alone. There is a small group in Templot club who have offered me assistance and I brought this machine as Martin has the same one and has offered to assist me with both setting it up and more importantly getting the files in working order.

 

As a last resort one of our neighbours both (husband and wife) are designers at Fords, apparently they have recently brought a 3D printer

 

My plan is first to print a 4mm turnout, then a 7mm one. Finally I want a small test track which can be used to demonstrate the system.

 

What I have not mentioned is that Martin has developed/is developing plain Flexitrack for the system

 

As for the resin printer do watch James's video

[bradfordbuffer]

On 05/11/2023 at 18:23, njee20 said:

I’ve been watching this with interest since the beginning, but as someone who models FB trackwork in N it’s not really entirely relevant for me yet!

 

On printing I started with resin and then bought FDM - there’s no ‘progression’ as such IMO, they’re just different, neither is easier or harder, both have their challenges. Very little transferable skill. 
 

I’d urge people to stay away from water washable resins. They’re markedly less stable, and it’s not really any easier. It’s just as unpleasant as the normal stuff, so after washing you’re left with contaminated water you can’t dispose of. IPA or acetone on the other hand will evaporate quickly. I’m sure people pour it down the drain; but that’s grossly irresponsible. I wonder if the same people would pour used engine oil down the drain in the same way. 

 

On resins Sunlu ABS-like is well priced and yields nice results. It’s markedly less brittle than a lot of other resins. Siraya Fast is great as well, but a chunk more expensive.    

Dirty resin contaminated IPA is cleaned many ways....youtube is your friend...I personalty use a wine/alcohol distiller...Nice clean ipa  after....although may no longer be 99% .about 15% wastage loss during process. machine cost 80quid but that was shared with my brother who does military 3d printing too.

 

A group of friends may chip in as you don't use it every day ....just save dirty ipa in a container and clean all at once!..

 

Some say it's a dangerous process!  I do it in the garden and still got both sets of eyebrows....kiss if death now...

 

G

[ISW]

10 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

apologies for my one-finger lower case typing. i have severely injured my left arm and it's the best i can do at present.

Sorry to hear about the injury. Hope it heals soon. Note that your typing is probably better than my (fully functioning 10 finger) attempts.

 

10 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

why rectangular plugs?

 

[clipped]

 

round plugs would not be large enough to contain the deep slots needed for the loose jaw pins.

Many thanks for the explanation. Now the rectangular plug and hole makes sense. I did have a thought in the back of my mind that a round pin 'might' not have enough shear strength as well.

 

Ian

[hayfield]

Well with the help of some YouTube videos I have managed to get the printer working

 

 

Well a completely different world of modelling, in this case making a food bag clip

 

 

Well the printer works, now I need to get the programs installed into my computer. 

 

Still a first step in my journey in printing my own track is completed 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by hayfield

[bradfordbuffer]

21 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Well with the help of some YouTube videos I have managed to get the printer working

 

 

Well a completely different world of modelling, in this case making a food bag clip

 

 

Well the printer works, now I need to get the programs installed into my computer. 

 

Still a first step in my journey in printing my own track is completed 

 

Ahhhh the rabbit hole that is 3d printing....just like the rabbit holes in local park .....many doggie tennis balls have entered none have returned, my pooch looks all confused when it disappears own the hole....I just think there is another quid!

[polybear]

How thick are the printed sleepers - am I correct in thinking perhaps just over 3mm?  If so then perhaps one downside will be ballasting.

[martin_wynne]

14 minutes ago, polybear said:

How thick are the printed sleepers - am I correct in thinking perhaps just over 3mm?  If so then perhaps one downside will be ballasting.

@polybear

 

hi brian,

 

the default thickness in 4mm/ft scale is 3.2mm (1/8").

 

you can set whatever you want, but if less than 3mm the loose jaws option doesn't work, and the plugs will not clip into place.

 

the suggested bottom ballast layer is crumbled/broken cork (pet shops - reptile bedding). with a thin top layer of crushed walnut shell ballast.

 

you can set whatever you want -- this applies to everything in plug track.

 

just like the rest of templot, it is a workshop tool for folks who know what they want.

 

martin.

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by martin_wynne

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

How thick are the printed sleepers - am I correct in thinking perhaps just over 3mm?  If so then perhaps one downside will be ballasting.

 

Brian

 

Whatever system you use will have its own set of compromises, and always has !! I think sometimes we always pay more store to what we perceive is the down size

 

Lets look at the design brief of plug track

 

a/  Accurate representation of the prototype in all sizes of turnouts and in the future crossings

b/ Easy to use without special tools or ability to carry out exacting building actives

c/ Inexpensive to produce

 

There are no kits available with both the detail and versatility in design, scale and gauge as Templot plug track, British Finescale comes very close with their kits but as one would expect them to offer an unlimited range. In some areas British Finescale kits are easier to build in others plug track has the advantage. Looking at sleeper/timber bases, thin bases have far more issues than thicker ones, but even the 1.6mm bases can have issues. Is an extra 1mm of ballast an issue?

 

Appearance, nothing beats a free flowing design

 

No special tools are required, in fact reusable cheap filing jigs can be easily printed, nor any specialist subassemblies needed to be prebuilt, simply cutting rail to size, a bit of bending and filing.

 

The cost of buying RTR turnouts is getting very expensive, as is buying track parts with a pack of copperclad strip ranging between £17 and £33, plastic turnout bases/strips £5 to £10, Chairs from £20 a pack. I think a 3D printed turnout in material including rail well under a £5 with the cost of rail being most of the cost.

 

The biggest drawback is access to printers, but at Scaleforum I was amazed at the number of people saying they either have printers or have access to them. Nothing to stop a club buying them or for two or more modelers to collaborate. As I have said I expect a few traders will offer print services once they see there is a need

 

Also it frees up modelling time, I simply pressed the start button and off it went all on its own. In the future no more hour plus making a track base, or cutting isolation gaps in copperclad strip. The fear of building common crossings gone, as is building out of gauge

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bittern]

On 11/11/2023 at 17:36, polybear said:

How thick are the printed sleepers - am I correct in thinking perhaps just over 3mm?  If so then perhaps one downside will be ballasting.

At the cost of using slightly more filament, you could print extra infill between the sleepers: I believe one of Martin's development images showed that it could generate STL like where the chair pockets were deeper than the space between and around the sleepers to suit milled MDF sleepers, but if you can't in the current release fiddling with slicer settings could produces the same effect.

[bradfordbuffer]

34 minutes ago, Bittern said:

At the cost of using slightly more filament, you could print extra infill between the sleepers: I believe one of Martin's development images showed that it could generate STL like where the chair pockets were deeper than the space between and around the sleepers to suit milled MDF sleepers, but if you can't in the current release fiddling with slicer settings could produces the same effect.

I might be being simplistic wouldn't the answer be balasting in layers? Building up to form nice prototypical shoulders 

[hayfield]

Whilst for some this may seem very insignificant piece of 3 sleepers, its a test piece to check the settings in the design file is set up correctly

 

 

About 25% printed

 

 

Finished and to my untrained eye looks to have past the first test

[Vistisen]

On 09/11/2023 at 17:31, hayfield said:

 

Keith

 

Thank you, but I am not alone. There is a small group in Templot club who have offered me assistance and I brought this machine as Martin has the same one and has offered to assist me with both setting it up and more importantly getting the files in working order.

 

As a last resort one of our neighbours both (husband and wife) are designers at Fords, apparently they have recently brought a 3D printer

 

My plan is first to print a 4mm turnout, then a 7mm one. Finally I want a small test track which can be used to demonstrate the system.

 

What I have not mentioned is that Martin has developed/is developing plain Flexitrack for the system

 

As for the resin printer do watch James's video

I'm the other way round. I have already bought a resin printer and begun to produce windows with it for scratch-built buildings. But trackbeds will not print well on a resin printer. As far as I can work out, the larger the base area is (and therefore larger track sections), the more difficult it is to get a flat level baseplate. I have an Elegoo Mars3pro resin pinter which I am very pleased with. and I also bought a Elegoo Mercury Plus wash and cure station.  Which makes the whole process og cleaning the resin prints much easier. I am thinking that an Elegoo Neptune 3 Pro might be tne next thing to get.  It has auto base leveling, which I hope will save alot of hassle

[hayfield]

3 hours ago, Vistisen said:

I'm the other way round. I have already bought a resin printer and begun to produce windows with it for scratch-built buildings. But trackbeds will not print well on a resin printer. As far as I can work out, the larger the base area is (and therefore larger track sections), the more difficult it is to get a flat level baseplate. I have an Elegoo Mars3pro resin pinter which I am very pleased with. and I also bought a Elegoo Mercury Plus wash and cure station.  Which makes the whole process og cleaning the resin prints much easier. I am thinking that an Elegoo Neptune 3 Pro might be tne next thing to get.  It has auto base leveling, which I hope will save alot of hassle

 

I have had a 3 hour session with both Martin and Phil on a zoom meeting, quite quickly we sorted out the base levelling and at the same time printed a 3 sleeper section simply to reconcile Templot with the printer. The major thing was to set up the custom printer settings to maximize the print quality

 

Someone with better understanding can say why a FDM printing is far better for timbering.

 

I am now printing the first half of an A6 EM gauge turnout

 

 

This is at the 22% printed state

 

Simply once you press the start button you leave the machine to print, Templot even sorts out the temperatures