Hayfields 3D printed track workshop

[hayfield]

 

I just about got away with this one, firstly I designed it on my lap top not desk top which I used to create the previous photos. So I managed to use the correct design border, plus I thought as the design square was 170mm and my build plate is 180 I had a bit of leeway. still its nearly 2/3rds through printing and another 2+ hours to go

 

I have also been experimenting with some old Templot 009 files simply to see if printing timbers was possible

 

 

The fact that the timbers is down to me not selecting the correct settings, but it proves that I can design and make some bases foe 00n3

 

 

Not so much luck with the plain track, again its me not the system, solid timbers but lost the surround base. But again it shows if i invest the time to design track bases I may well be able to make track and turnout bases for flatbottom track. I think the turnout bases work out at 11p, the cost of rail is another thing

 

I have got so used to the cost of rail being the lowest cost component that these printed bases. An EM gauge A6 base costs about 38p

 

I have been told the chairs will cost a similar amount, 

[hayfield]

 

The diamond is spliced together and I thought I better look at making some track bases, the plain track is 180mm long.

 

Had an interesting chat on Zoom last night, the track bases have the facility of being made as Flexi track, even though you can print at what ever radii you wish,  we also looked at a thing called blind sockets, but also the ability to print solid 9(no plugs) track bases

 

As you can see with the middle of the diamond crossing, as the obtuse chairs have not been designed yet the timbers are solid. My plan is to use the Exactoscale obtuse crossing chairs to finish the build. Using the chairs for the common crossings and standard chairs will really both simplify and speed up the build. 2 packs of Exactoscale obtuse crossings will finish the middle 5 chairs, OK its a little more difficult, but far simpler than building from scratch

 

The plug track system is in development and is still in what Martin describes as experiential. The steps made over the past year have been massive, though Martin has been working on it for quite some time. When you look at the time taken by large companies to produce a product range Templot's plugged track has really grown quickly. The realization of being able to print bases without some or all of the sockets could be an advantage in some situations especially in forming track which is not catered for at the moment

 

Narrow gauge is another of my interests, I want to build some 4mm scale 12mm gauge track, Templot allows me to design this and the ability to print a turnout base with no sockets is appealing, Flatbottom rail can be glued and pinned to the timbers and I have a quick and easy to build turnout. But that's in the future

[hayfield]

James Walters is back with another one of his videos on Templot plugged track

 

 

 

This shows how to make printing files for chairs,

 

James has a wonderful way of explaining simply how to do things and in what for the likes of me is quite daunting, simplifies the process into a few simple actions

 

For most of us 3D printing is just another world that cleaver people live and work in

 

However after a few days I have now mastered how to design and make trackwork in FDM printing. For some it may seem a lot of faff for little advantage, but this is not the case.

 

OK it takes twenty or thirty minutes to produce a file, but once you have that file it takes seconds to tell the printer what to print time after time. Whilst its not a race the design of a file once you get used to the process only takes a few minutes

 

For me I am about to learn about 3D resin printing, again it will take time to learn how to make chair files. However once you have them they can be used over and over again.

 

If you have not watched James's first video, watch it first. Then watch this one. Again it may seem a lot to both take in, and for us oldies is, but by watching it a few times and actually doing it the method becomes second nature

 

This system really opens up new doors in track building and for once 00 gauge modelers are not left out in the cold. For the cost of a latest high end loco with sound, a modeler or a group of modelers can have a system which will make trackwork far superior to what's available in RTR for a fraction of the cost, in fact if someone is building a layout and requires finescale track it could save money . 

[KeithHC]

Agree with all the above John. Also for those who may struggle a bit with Templot James also has a video that covers that as well. All of them are stored for repeat playing.

 

John I will be closely watching your adventures into resin as hopefully soon I will also get the same printer.

 

Keith

[martin_wynne]

@hayfield

 

Hi John,

 

If your resin arrives today and you are planning to try your first prints on the Alkaid, a couple of important points:

 

1. thoroughly clean the build plate with solvent or water/detergent before you start. It will likely still have some traces of factory dirt/grease/fingerprints on it as supplied. This is often the reason a beginner's first print fails. Ask Steve.

 

2. if using the ABS-Like resin, do not use the print settings contained in the Alkaid manual, which are for the standard Geeetech resin. The ABS-Like resin rafts needs a longer bottom exposure time. I will be posting my suggested settings on the Templot Club forum.

 

Martin.

[bradfordbuffer]

57 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

@hayfield

 

Hi John,

 

If your resin arrives today and you are planning to try your first prints on the Alkaid, a couple of important points:

 

1. thoroughly clean the build plate with solvent or water/detergent before you start. It will likely still have some traces of factory dirt/grease/fingerprints on it as supplied. This is often the reason a beginner's first print fails. Ask Steve.

 

2. if using the ABS-Like resin, do not use the print settings contained in the Alkaid manual, which are for the standard Geeetech resin. The ABS-Like resin rafts needs a longer bottom exposure time. I will be posting my suggested settings on the Templot Club forum.

 

Martin.

Top tip on cleaning build plate...

I almost exclusively use abs type anycubic resin actually find it gives a better finish on wagons than standard plus toughness....just another tip warm your bottle of resin up in warm water or store in boiler room etc I print in garage and this time of year use to suffer many failures until fitted reptile heater in to printer it takes my mono x to a warm 20° to 22° just bought the smaller one for the mini (it is next to mono x) geeeteck. The one I use was from amazon sizes in photo ...I attached mono x one on plate glass but mini printer straight to plastic hood don't think there will be that much of a issue with heat...

Hopefully...plenty of room at back of printer if wanting glass mounting...I also use hood to keep heat in but don't cover any vents or fans for fire hazard!

[bradfordbuffer]

missed some photos off

[hayfield]

 

The benefit of using Templot Plug track is you can print curved track, well you can also build flexi track !!

 

 

Straight off the printer the curved flexi track at 55" radius.   

 

The problem with flexi track is it curves in steps, but with this facility you can print a nice curved piece of track but have an ability to fine tune the placement of it. You can do this with all prints even turnouts, but usually there is no need.

 

 

A rather nifty tierbar design is included in the turnout bases

 

 

I could try and up load a photo but this is so much better. Yet another reason to use plug track

 

Both images are by Martin Wynn

[Lacathedrale]

Hello John! I wanted to ask since Bexhill West's videos linked above were my first real in depth look at Templot-derived printed track - what are the justifications for the separate types of jaws on the chairs? fixed jaw, plug-in jaw, etc. ? I'm looking at 2mmFS, 3mm and 4mm as potential targets.

[martin_wynne]

8 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Hello John! I wanted to ask since Bexhill West's videos linked above were my first real in depth look at Templot-derived printed track - what are the justifications for the separate types of jaws on the chairs? fixed jaw, plug-in jaw, etc. ? I'm looking at 2mmFS, 3mm and 4mm as potential targets.

 

Hi William,

 

The loose jaws are the default option and recommended. They allow track formations, simple or complex, to be built in the prototype manner by dropping the rail onto the chairs, one rail at a time, and then fixing it in place in each chair. The rail can have prototypical square ends and does not need to be chamfered, because the chairs are not threaded onto the rail. It also means the rails can be bent as required, such as at the wing rail knuckle, the switch set, the centre of K-crossings, etc.

 

In 2mm scale the loose jaws are very tiny, and may need a higher-resolution 3D printer.

 

If preferred the chairs can be printed with solid jaws, but then they do need to be threaded onto the rail, and where there are two or more rails in a chair, such as in the V-crossings, the assembly process becomes very tricky and fiddly and in some cases impossible.

 

Alternatively the solid-jaw chairs can be inserted in the timbering base first, creating the equivalent of a Finetrax kit. But that requires some departures from the prototype, such as having a break in the rails at the knuckle instead of a proper knuckle bend. Complex formations such as tandem turnouts, outside slips, etc. are difficult or impossible done that way.

 

If in doubt, use the loose jaws option.

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Hello John! I wanted to ask since Bexhill West's videos linked above were my first real in depth look at Templot-derived printed track - what are the justifications for the separate types of jaws on the chairs? fixed jaw, plug-in jaw, etc. ? I'm looking at 2mmFS, 3mm and 4mm as potential targets.

 

William

 

Thanks for joining in and asking a question, which I guess most are afraid of asking

 

I will own up at first wondering why use loose jaws ? simply as I was so used to the C&L/Exactoscale/Peco systems. Forgetting that quite often you are forced into using half chairs anyway

 

But the penny dropped, one of the biggest drawbacks for some is threading chairs on to rail and preforming subassemblies for common crossings. With Templot plug track the build process is shear simplicity/ease of use. Preform each rail, lay in place then push the loose jaws in place, no gauges, no extra soldering dropper wires, no premade sub assemblies or special jigs in sight

 

To build a finescale turnout usually entails a large expense in gauges, jigs and for some premade sub assemblies, This is where one printer pays for itself. The odd filing jig is easily printed for a £ or so and in many cases reusable 

 

Now look at the ever increasing price of components and very soon the other printer is paid for. £33 for a pack of Copperclad, £12 for a sprue of timbers. I am not having a go at the retail trade they have to charge for their products at a profitable rate to stay in business. Gone are the days of 1/11d Airfix kits (one old shilling (10p) and 11 pence (9p) )

 

But far more importantly look at the level of detail and the freedom of having gentle curving trackwork (rarely on the railways is anything straight) which most of the RTR market is unable to achieve

[Buhar]

5 hours ago, hayfield said:

Gone are the days of 1/11d Airfix kits (one old shilling (10p) and 11 pence (9p) )

Oh dear, John!  The cost of the kit was just over 9p, a shilling was 5p. 

 

When did they go up to 2/6 (12.5p)?  I have that in my head as my pocket money in the early sixties.  But maybe my pocket money was two bob.  Anyway, a kit each week from the twirly rack in the newsagents.

 

Alan

[JSModels]

Further to James' excellent videos on his Bexhill West channel, I've downloaded Templot & am attempting to learn how to use it (for some reason, it doesn't like running on my laptop, but on my desktop it seems to function correctly!). I think plug-track is an amazing concept, and will probably be regarded in the future as a fundamental shift in the art of track building.

 

Anyway, I'm trying to create an STL file for some O gauge bridge chairs (to suit Peco code 124 rail). I've succeeded in getting this far, but have a couple of issues:

 

 

Firstly, I can't seem to find out to generate the loose outer jaws. In the 'chair jaw export options' dialog box, I assumed it was this option:

 

 

but that still only outputs the chairs with the slots as pictured above, not the loose jaws. Even clicking on 'export all chairs with solid outer jaws and keys', I still get exactly the same result.

Can @hayfield or @martin_wynne advise me on this?

 

Also, the screw heads seem to be very odd, with varying shapes from square to 8-pointed star:

 

 

I'm assuming this is some kind of glitch, and that they're not supposed to look like this?

 

I'm really at the very early stages of using this, so apologies if I'm making some fundamental errors (I'm amazed I've got this far, TBH!).

 

Lastly, for another project I'd like to laser-engrave the track drawing onto the board; is there a way to output the outline of the rails & sleepers in a DXF file (as vector lines)? The only DXF output I've managed so far is for laser-cutting the sleeper bases. Nevermind, found it!

 

 

Regards,

 

Jonathan

Edited December 1, 2023 by JSModels
Strikethrough redundant question

[njee20]

On 20/11/2023 at 19:55, hayfield said:

 

I went out twice and the machine just looked after itself, I came back caught up with a program on TV and once it was finished the print had stopped and the bed and track base was cooling down. As you can see there is space inside the grey boundary marker, but the more items on the bed the longer it will take to print. This turnout took 6.5 hours, but did it all on its own once started

 

 

The bases once taken off the printer track base, think it cost about 40p to print

6.5 hours sounds like a very long time for that. Is the Cura profile very slow?

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, JSModels said:

Further to James' excellent videos on his Bexhill West channel, I've downloaded Templot & am attempting to learn how to use it (for some reason, it doesn't like running on my laptop, but on my desktop it seems to function correctly!). I think plug-track is an amazing concept, and will probably be regarded in the future as a fundamental shift in the art of track building.

 

Anyway, I'm trying to create an STL file for some O gauge bridge chairs (to suit Peco code 124 rail). I've succeeded in getting this far, but have a couple of issues:

 

 

Firstly, I can't seem to find out to generate the loose outer jaws. In the 'chair jaw export options' dialog box, I assumed it was this option:

 

 

but that still only outputs the chairs with the slots as pictured above, not the loose jaws. Even clicking on 'export all chairs with solid outer jaws and keys', I still get exactly the same result.

Can @hayfield or @martin_wynne advise me on this?

 

Also, the screw heads seem to be very odd, with varying shapes from square to 8-pointed star:

 

 

I'm assuming this is some kind of glitch, and that they're not supposed to look like this?

 

I'm really at the very early stages of using this, so apologies if I'm making some fundamental errors (I'm amazed I've got this far, TBH!).

 

Lastly, for another project I'd like to laser-engrave the track drawing onto the board; is there a way to output the outline of the rails & sleepers in a DXF file (as vector lines)? The only DXF output I've managed so far is for laser-cutting the sleeper bases. Nevermind, found it!

 

 

Regards,

 

Jonathan

 

 

This technical stuff is above my paygrade and whilst I have a resin printer I am waiting for resin to be delivered, as there is a shortage of the type I have decided to use. So unfortunately you need a bit of advice from a resin printer

 

Go onto the Templot forum where help is at hand

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, njee20 said:

6.5 hours sounds like a very long time for that. Is the Cura profile very slow?

 

 

The time taken depends on the amount of space you are printing, half a turnout takes about 3 hours, so if you can fit both halves on the build plate the time will increase accordingly. Apparently resin printing the chairs is much quicker. Time is not an issue as once the printer is set up, as it prints all on its own. Its only a problem if you are desperate for the print. Planning ahead is the key

[njee20]

Yes, I get all of that, just surprised. The chairs will be very quick indeed, under an hour I'd expect, and you can fit as many as you like on - the only dimension which impacts print time on a resin printer is the height, unlike FDM.

 

Bought some bullhead rail at Warley at the weekend to have a go at this in N gauge for some hidden pointwork, should be fun!

[hayfield]

4 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Yes, I get all of that, just surprised. The chairs will be very quick indeed, under an hour I'd expect, and you can fit as many as you like on - the only dimension which impacts print time on a resin printer is the height, unlike FDM.

 

Bought some bullhead rail at Warley at the weekend to have a go at this in N gauge for some hidden pointwork, should be fun!

 

 

Martin Wynn is the person who can inform why it takes so long, but I think it has to do with the quality of printing required

 

For N Gauge read this

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/n-gauge-plug-track-question.781/

 

Good luck and happy printing

[martin_wynne]

2 hours ago, JSModels said:

Further to James' excellent videos on his Bexhill West channel, I've downloaded Templot & am attempting to learn how to use it (for some reason, it doesn't like running on my laptop, but on my desktop it seems to function correctly!). I think plug-track is an amazing concept, and will probably be regarded in the future as a fundamental shift in the art of track building.

 

Anyway, I'm trying to create an STL file for some O gauge bridge chairs (to suit Peco code 124 rail). I've succeeded in getting this far, but have a couple of issues:

 

 

Firstly, I can't seem to find out to generate the loose outer jaws. In the 'chair jaw export options' dialog box, I assumed it was this option:

 

 

but that still only outputs the chairs with the slots as pictured above, not the loose jaws. Even clicking on 'export all chairs with solid outer jaws and keys', I still get exactly the same result.

Can @hayfield or @martin_wynne advise me on this?

 

Also, the screw heads seem to be very odd, with varying shapes from square to 8-pointed star:

 

 

I'm assuming this is some kind of glitch, and that they're not supposed to look like this?

 

I'm really at the very early stages of using this, so apologies if I'm making some fundamental errors (I'm amazed I've got this far, TBH!).

 

Lastly, for another project I'd like to laser-engrave the track drawing onto the board; is there a way to output the outline of the rails & sleepers in a DXF file (as vector lines)? The only DXF output I've managed so far is for laser-cutting the sleeper bases. Nevermind, found it!

 

 

Regards,

 

Jonathan

@JSModels

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

After changing to the loose jaws option, click the button modify group to match.

 

The strange screw-heads are caused by having duplicate templates, or duplicate chairs on the raft. Delete the duplicates so that there is only one of each chair in the export.

 

(The screw-head rotations are randomised, so if duplicated you get multiple corners, instead of 4 corners for square heads.)

 

Ask on the Templot Club forum for detailed explanations of plug track.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[JSModels]

1 hour ago, martin_wynne said:

@JSModels

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

After changing to the loose jaws option, click the button modify group to match.

 

The strange screw-heads are caused by having duplicate templates, or duplicate chairs on the raft. Delete the duplicates so that there is only one of each chair in the export.

 

(The screw-head rotations are randomised, so if duplicated you get multiple corners, instead of 4 corners for square heads.)

 

Ask on the Templot Club forum for detailed explanations of plug track.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Thanks @martin_wynne, that's really helpful & having duplicates creating the odd heads makes perfect sense! 

[hayfield]

20 hours ago, njee20 said:

Yes, I get all of that, just surprised. The chairs will be very quick indeed, under an hour I'd expect, and you can fit as many as you like on - the only dimension which impacts print time on a resin printer is the height, unlike FDM.

 

Bought some bullhead rail at Warley at the weekend to have a go at this in N gauge for some hidden pointwork, should be fun!

 

Njee20

 

Regarding printing time, this fulli'sh plate will take about 4.5 hours to print. Excluding design loading the printer takes seconds, then you leave it to carry on

 

I am trying another experiment, this time for an 0 16.5 turnout base

 

 

Its just going to be solid timbers on to which I will glue and spike rail.

 

Rather than start with a 7mm scale template and reduce it down, I altered the sleepering of an 00 gauge A6 turnout making the timbers both wider and longer Whilst the timber length matches Peco 0 16.5 flexitrack the width and spacings may not. As I said its an experiment costing 40p in filament. It shows the versality of the system by altering the output to suite your own plans 

[hayfield]

Update on resin printing, I have ordered some resin, unfortunately its out of stock and not available for 3+ weeks.

 

Looks like Martins Plug track may be taking off !!!!

[Vistisen]

Hi  I bought a resin printer a few months ago. One of the things that you have to get used to is washing and curing your prints.  This takes some time. I bought a one of these https://www.elegoo.com/products/washing-and-curing-station-v2-0 to do that job, and it saves a lot of mess and time spent breathing fumes while cleaning small items

[martin_wynne]

8 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Regarding printing time, this fulli'sh plate will take about 4.5 hours to print. Excluding design loading the printer takes seconds, then you leave it to carry on

 

@njee20

 

For FDM printing, slow=good quality, fast=poor quality.

 

Using my posted slicer settings for Cura in 4mm/ft scale, and the default timbering thickness 3.2mm, timings are in the ballpark range 9-11 minutes per sleeper for plain track, and 15-18 minutes per timber for pointwork.

 

You can change all the settings in Templot to whatever you want, but I would advise that departing from the defaults may produce unpredictable results.

 

Likewise you can change the quality settings and everything else in your slicer to whatever you want. But not all options are likely to produce usable results.

 

FDM printers run just fine unattended, so the time taken is largely irrelevant -- while it's running you build the cattle dock, instal point motors, build a wagon kit, or paint the station-master's hat.

 

Martin.

[njee20]

Yep, been printing for years on both resin and FDM, so well aware of all of that, was simply an observation. What speeds are you using in your Cura profile? I realise I could just download it 

🤣

 

Was doing some printing on one of the resin printers last night, so chucked a full turnout in. I get people saying that they’ll curl up, but I wonder in N whether that’ll be mitigated (or actually worse). I have to doth my cap to you Martin, the fact this was created in less than 5 minutes is seriously impressive! I changed no settings, so it’ll almost certainly be scrap, but fascinating to see!

 

 

37 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Update on resin printing, I have ordered some resin, unfortunately its out of stock and not available for 3+ weeks.

 

Looks like Martins Plug track may be taking off !!!!

Which resin are you going for? I’d recommend either Sunlu ABS-Like (cheap) or Siraya Fast (less cheap!), both appear to be widely in stock. Adding some Siraya Tenacious gives significant flex, but can soften detail, it’s almost rubbery.