57xx Pannier Tank Family, By Accurascale

[RCP]

4 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

Sorry old chap, but 6743 is one of the 'unfitted' batch. No vacuum, no steam heat, no topfeed as built. Delivered to Ebbw Jcn in 1930, and was shedded mostly at Pill & Ebbw.

 

My understanding was that 8745 didn't have topfeed in 1934, My plan was to retro fit the vacuum and steam heat pipes as the alternative is adding rivet detail 😱

[Miss Prism]

3 minutes ago, RCP said:

My understanding was that 8745 didn't have topfeed in 1934, My plan was to retro fit the vacuum and steam heat pipes as the alternative is adding rivet detail 😱

 

That is your easiest route to 8745 at that date.

 

[RCP]

Does anyone know how quickly Accurascale do replacement parts for their gear. Might be able to buy the steam pipe/vacuum pipe direct from them.

Edited December 5, 2023 by RCP

[McC]

Just now, RCP said:

Does anyone know how quickly Accurascale do replacement parts for their gear. Might be able to by the steam pipe/vacuum pipe direct from them.

 

A full suite of parts ships to us now with each batch of models. 

[Miss Prism]

3 hours ago, Star-rider said:

I’m wildly surmising the lack of vacuum and steam heat on 6725-49 would mean that 6748 spent most of its time local to Stourbridge, shunting, on short trains or doing empty carriage working?

 

6700-49 were the 'shunting only' subclass. Here's 6714 (with Grotesque font insignia and a prominent shunting duty disc) at Swansea East Dock on 6 July 1947.

 

 

Swansea East Dock on a Sunday was pannier city.

 

[Miss Prism]

The shunting-only locos would not have been allowed on passenger trains, and I doubt they were allowed near ECS duties.

 

[The Johnster]

They could not work passenger trains, not having vacuum brakes or screw couplings, both neccessities for passenger stock working on running lines, which would include NPCCS as well as ECS. The Swansea East Dock photo illustrates a question I had about these engines, though; the shunting target is mounted on the smokebox top lamp bracket, a feature that can rarely have been used in service except for this purpose.  The loco could not be used to haul a Class B Ordinary Passenger Train, but could I suppose have been diagrammed to haul an unfitted Class F or H freight train...

[Star-rider]

Thank you for continuing my education Miss Prism & The Johnster.

 

If I do go for 6743 as 6748 it looks as if it will be restricted to pulling out odd wagons or small groups of wagons for something more competent to take down the main line then.

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, Star-rider said:

All we wanted was a Pannier without top-feed and now we’re having to deal with the consequences of our actions. We’re reaping what we have sown, a week of sleepless nights worrying about which one(s) to order.

 

Perhaps I should have spent the last few years researching, instead of participating in the sport of wish-listing so that I could pounce with a quick order on the glorious day.

 

I thought I’d share my working out so far in the search for something to suit the wider west midland area in the 1930’s:

 

• 5741 – Disregard (post-war GWR livery)
• 5754 – Disregard (Lot number 258, no evidence (yet) of any activity in the area / period)
• 7714, 7754, 8763, 9681, 9741 – Disregarded (lamentably lacking in Great Western livery 😁)
• 7755 – Possibility (NBL, Lot number 274 – may suffice for 7759 or 7763 both allocated to Oxley?)
• 6743 – Possibility (Yorkshire Engine, Lot 265 – may suffice for 6748 first allocated to Stourbridge?)

 

So, there’s a couple I think I can work with and two is enough for a pre-order from this batch. 9741 would have been a perfect 8750 for my timeframe and region except for the British Railways lettering. I’m disinclined to get the angle grinder out of the garage to clear off the lettering and then attack it with a rattle can, but who knows, I may change my mind.

 

I think I’ll take another week or so to see what information I can turn up before pulling the trigger. Any observations on my thought process would be welcome. I’m wildly surmising the lack of vacuum and steam heat on 6725-49 would mean that 6748 spent most of its time local to Stourbridge, shunting, on short trains or doing empty carriage working?

 

The fact that there is anything at all to chose from is hugely welcomed.

As 6748 did not have an ejector and vacuum brake capability it would not have been very sensible to use it on empty coaching  stock working.  The steam brake only engines were intended for freight shunting and were also suitable for freight trip working which is why they were mainly found at South Wales sheds especially those serving docks.

[Captain Kernow]

9 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

As 6748 did not have an ejector and vacuum brake capability it would not have been very sensible to use it on empty coaching  stock working.  The steam brake only engines were intended for freight shunting and were also suitable for freight trip working which is why they were mainly found at South Wales sheds especially those serving docks.

Indeed, the Pannier Papers show hardly any allocations outside of South Wales for virtually the whole life of this sub-class.

[Steamport Southport]

The building a batch of steam brake only ones wasn't uniquely a GWR thing either. There was a batch of 100 Jinties the same. 

 

16650 - 16749 (later 7567 - 7666) Built between September 1928 and April 1929 by three manufacturers - Hunslet, Bagnall and Beardmore.

 

 

Another trap for the unwary!

 

 

Jason

[Richard_A]

12 hours ago, The Johnster said:

They could not work passenger trains, not having vacuum brakes or screw couplings, both neccessities for passenger stock working on running lines, which would include NPCCS as well as ECS. The Swansea East Dock photo illustrates a question I had about these engines, though; the shunting target is mounted on the smokebox top lamp bracket, a feature that can rarely have been used in service except for this purpose.  The loco could not be used to haul a Class B Ordinary Passenger Train, but could I suppose have been diagrammed to haul an unfitted Class F or H freight train...

I'm the Swansea vale railway book, there are a few pictures of them hauling wagons on the "mainline" 

Edited December 6, 2023 by rka

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, rka said:

I'm the Swansea vale railway book, there are a few pictures of them hauling wagons on the "mainline" 

Possibly an unfitted local goods?

 

[Richard_A]

3 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Possibly an unfitted local goods?

 

I assume so. 

[The Meerkat]

when would we know about the exclusive,  if it will be green BR logo with the red lining  i will wait for that,  if not i will order the black one with red lining,  

Edited December 6, 2023 by The Meerkat

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, The Meerkat said:

green BR logo with the red lining

???

[brianthesnail96]

42 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

???

 

I think we're referring to the BR passenger lined green; unlikely I'd suggest, given that they never carried it in BR days. So far as I'm aware none of the preserved ones have either although I stand to be corrected there (although we have had tan, blue, red, and light green of course, as well as lined BR black).

 

My money is on a red one (which is of course the best livery ever carried by a 57xx 😉). The myriad little changes made to suit their new life underground will be right up Accurascale's street. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by brianthesnail96
Remembered another colour...

[The Johnster]

There were lined green pannier tanks in BR days, but not of the 57xx/8750 class or any of it's sub-classes.  There were some 8750s in lined black in connection with ecs working into Paddington from Old Oak Common.   The lined green panniers were of the 54xx and 64xx auto-fitted classes, most if not all of which recieved the lined green livery between 1956 and 1965.  Bachmann make the 64xx in 00 RTR, but you knew that already, didn't you, Meerkat? 

 

The BR lined green passenger livery was based on the GW lined livery (which was never TTBOMK carried by any pannier tank), and was 1/2" orange-1/2" background colour green-1"black-1/2" background-1/2" orange.  There was no BR red-lined green livery applied to pannier tanks or to any other steam loco IIRC.

[The Meerkat]

7 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 Bachmann make the 64xx in 00 RTR, but you knew that already, didn't you, Meerkat? 

 

 

i did :)

 

they look the same but steam was before my time

[Fair Oak Junction]

Well of course they look the same, they're GWR 😉

[The Meerkat]

5 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

Well of course they look the same, they're GWR 😉

would it matter as not a pre tend lively if you know what i mean,  i not no the difference between the 2

[Fair Oak Junction]

Honestly I have no idea, I don't know the difference either 😄

[Coach bogie]

20 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

Honestly I have no idea, I don't know the difference either 😄

Mainly wheel spacing, but the bunker is taller and shape where the bunker meets the cab is different too on earlier engines.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Johnster]

Another difference is that the boiler is bigger on the 57xx/8750 than the 54xx/64xx/74xx family, and protrudes above the pannier tanks over it's entire length.  On the smaller engines the top plate of the tanks stretches across the top of the boiler, and there is a level straight line at the front in front of the chimney, as opposed to the 57xx family where the smokebox drum breaks it.  Also, the 57xx family chimney is tapered while the 54xx families' are parallel.  On the 54xx and early builds of the 64xx the join between the cab side and bunker is radiussed, as it is on a 48xx, but on the later 64xx and the 74xx it is square as on the 8750s.  The 16xx is styled like the later 64xx and the 74xx, but has smaller diameter driving wheels.  It also has the 'modern' angled, rather than curved, fire iron hooks on the rear of the bunker, introduced with the 94xx and repeated on the 15xx.

 

I doubt that even the most convinced of the 'all GW engines look the same' brigade could confuse the 94xx or 15xx for anything else.  There is a minor difference between the GW and BR-built 94xx, though; the GW engines (9400-9409) have a hinged cover plate over the tops of the inside cylinder fronts between the frame plates and between the bottom of the smokebox wrapper and the buffer beam, whereas the BR-built engines have this area exposed, and one can see the tops of the cylinders' front plate peeping over the running plate like barmaids' wibblywobblies between the plate frames, which are angled down to meet the top of the buffer beam.

 

Earlier panniers rebuilt from saddle tanks mostly had half-cabs, which rendered them pretty distinctive, and the smaller classes had boilers covered by the tank top plates in the same way as described above for the 54xx family and the 16xx, but some were given enclosed cabs by extending the roof and putting a backplate between that and the bunker, and the larger 1854 and 2721 classes with these looked very similar to 57xx.  The points to look for are the parallel copper-capped chimneys, and a valance below the running plate.  Also, none of these engines ever had top-feed boilers.

 

Here endeth the lesson in field identfication of GW/WR Collett and Hawksworth pannier designs...

[Steamport Southport]

The plates on the 94XXs were often removed. Something I noticed a while ago.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p30480076/ef409e6b0

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p30480076/ef44fc8ae

 

 

 

Jason