Hornby 2024 range announcements

[XChris]

20 hours ago, georgeds said:

This had slipped my attention until today.

 

https://shop.keymodelworld.com/collections/limited-editions/products/pre-order-Hornby-crosscountry-hst-limited-edition-txs-sound

I’m sure this will get rid of those final XC Sliding Door Mk.3’s! 
 

I’ve ordered myself a pair of DCC ready ones, then I can fit V5’s to them. Thought I best do as I was on the train all day!

 

I’m surprised there’s not a second pack with the other painted pair for the farewell train.

Edited March 10 by XChris
Addition

[scouse889]

2 hours ago, XChris said:

I’m sure this will get rid of those final XC Sliding Door Mk.3’s! 
 

I’ve ordered myself a pair of DCC ready ones, then I can fit V5’s to them. Thought I best do as I was on the train all day!

 

I’m surprised there’s not a second pack with the other painted pair for the farewell train.

Yes, now wish I had bought an XC01 set when Hattons were chucking them out for £15 in their advent calendar event! :)

Good to see this pack though. I have also ordered one.

I’m hoping we still might see 43007 and 43008 in their final guises - but then I’m still waiting for GWR 43185 in Intercity as well as EMT celebrities 43102 and 43274…..! 

 

Edited March 10 by scouse889

[scouse889]

2 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

I reckon a standard release XC pack would be more popular than this very limited period (just 6 months for 43184 Laira Diesel Depot) set, especially when looking at the extortionate price the previous version goes for on eBay.

The ‘celebrity’ HST packs do seem to sell nonetheless. I think the record is for the LNER farewell pack, in which livery the power cars were in traffic for 4 days. 6 months seems quite a long time in comparison. Isn’t the LNER pack due this year only correct for 43238’s (debranded NRM livery) last 1 month in traffic? (I’m not sure if specifically call this PC in this condition a celebrity though.)

[Sweetling Park]

23 hours ago, scouse889 said:

Yes, now wish I had bought an XC01 set when Hattons were chucking them out for £15 in their advent calendar event! :)

I somehow missed that as a XC set would have been nice to obtain.

 

23 hours ago, scouse889 said:

Isn’t the LNER pack due this year only correct for 43238’s (debranded NRM livery) last 1 month in traffic?

I believe it is.  I would have preferred 43238 to be in LNER/NRM livery rather than just plain red, as the former is more significant to me.

[scouse889]

5 hours ago, Sweetling Park said:

I believe it is.  I would have preferred 43238 to be in LNER/NRM livery rather than just plain red, as the former is more significant to me.

 

You could always try to get R3502 which has 43238 in VTEC/NRM livery (I think this was a limited edition in conjuction with locomotion, IIRC)? As far as I am aware the only difference is a "Virgin" logo in faded/shadow livery towards the rear of the power car, which I think was removed and replaced with a small LNER logo on the prototype when the franchise operator changed. Not sure this would be that easy to do on the model without a major repaint job, but depends on how important it would be to have the PC in LNER/NRM livery rather than VTEC/NRM livery.

I would rather they did the power car in LNER/NRM livery than the 'flying tomato' (or whatever it is they have decided to call it) debranded livery - or alternatively just a 'normal' pair of LNER power cars to go with the umpteen rakes of LNER Mk3's they have done, or even 43274 in its 'Spirit of Sunderland' livery (complete with the 'It's never dull in Hull' buffet)???!

[phil-b259]

On 03/02/2024 at 09:01, Ravel said:

Shame there was no rerun of the Drax wagons, given how quickly the last batch vanished and the prices they now fetch on the Bay.. who is responsible for their market research?

IIRC the tooling for these is an actually owned by Drax (as they paid for it) and not Hornby (whose involvement was just to produce the design and then deliver the models).

 

If so, Hornby themselves cannot simply undertake a further release off their own initiative - they need express permission from Drax to do so. Moreover I’m anlso pretty sure that Drax themselves would want a cut of the profits from the sales of each wagon too!
 

That in turn pushes the RRP even higher and it could be that the price the wagons would have to be sold at is so expensive Hornby believe they won’t sell.

 

 

 

 

[Sweetling Park]

14 hours ago, scouse889 said:

You could always try to get R3502 which has 43238 in VTEC/NRM livery (I think this was a limited edition in conjuction with locomotion, IIRC)? As far as I am aware the only difference is a "Virgin" logo in faded/shadow livery towards the rear of the power car, which I think was removed and replaced with a small LNER logo on the prototype when the franchise operator changed. Not sure this would be that easy to do on the model without a major repaint job, but depends on how important it would be to have the PC in LNER/NRM livery rather than VTEC/NRM livery.

I would rather they did the power car in LNER/NRM livery than the 'flying tomato' (or whatever it is they have decided to call it) debranded livery - or alternatively just a 'normal' pair of LNER power cars to go with the umpteen rakes of LNER Mk3's they have done, or even 43274 in its 'Spirit of Sunderland' livery (complete with the 'It's never dull in Hull' buffet)???!

Thank you @scouse889 for the information, I really appreciate it.  Strictly speaking it was the VTEC/NRM version that holds the significance, but as a couple of my other locos are LNER I thought a LNER/NRM version would be a better fit.  It is something to consider, though.

 

I'm not sure why they chose a short lived livery (about a month?) over one that was in traffic for much longer, but perhaps it was a rights issue?  Yes, a pair of standard liveried power cars would also have been nice.

[scouse889]

On 11/03/2024 at 21:35, phil-b259 said:

IIRC the tooling for these is an actually owned by Drax (as they paid for it) and not Hornby (whose involvement was just to produce the design and then deliver the models).

 

If so, Hornby themselves cannot simply undertake a further release off their own initiative - they need express permission from Drax to do so. Moreover I’m anlso pretty sure that Drax themselves would want a cut of the profits from the sales of each wagon too!
 

That in turn pushes the RRP even higher and it could be that the price the wagons would have to be sold at is so expensive Hornby believe they won’t sell.

I’m sure I have read somewhere that Drax own the tooling too - although of course I have no idea if this is correct.

The first batch R6723 and R6724 were limited editions only available from Hattons at £83 per wagon in 2016.

It was then several years before a second batch in the revised Northern Powerhouse livery was announced (R60176 and R60177, arriving Christmas Eve 2022 IIRC) and these were twin packs priced at £49, so at £24.50 per wagon were amazing value and less than a third of the price of the originals, even ignoring any inflation.

So whatever the state of play with the tooling, one would hope if it could be done once it could be done again….

[adb968008]

13 hours ago, scouse889 said:

I’m sure I have read somewhere that Drax own the tooling too - although of course I have no idea if this is correct.

The first batch R6723 and R6724 were limited editions only available from Hattons at £83 per wagon in 2016.

It was then several years before a second batch in the revised Northern Powerhouse livery was announced (R60176 and R60177, arriving Christmas Eve 2022 IIRC) and these were twin packs priced at £49, so at £24.50 per wagon were amazing value and less than a third of the price of the originals, even ignoring any inflation.

So whatever the state of play with the tooling, one would hope if it could be done once it could be done again….

I’d be fascinated to understand more of that second batch.

The pricing defied logic, and seemed at odds with what was told to us about the first lot.

Further the second batch was presented as single wagons as a limited edition, and retailers got ridiculous small allocations leading to a frenzy and ill will. Yet when it arrived it seemingly was a massive over supply, and of course twin packs.

It felt to me like multiple cockups and chaos rather than either planning or conspiracy.

 

It certainly lead to me losing my rag with Hornbys pre-orders, which its never bounced back from and now I just wait and see what lands before / if I buy it… which has massively reduced my Hornby spend.. I just don't trust them in advance any more, indeed I dont trust the discounting after it lands either.

 

 

 

Edited March 13 by adb968008

[letterspider]

On 11/03/2024 at 21:35, phil-b259 said:

IIRC the tooling for these is an actually owned by Drax (as they paid for it) and not Hornby (whose involvement was just to produce the design and then deliver the models).

 

If so, Hornby themselves cannot simply undertake a further release off their own initiative - they need express permission from Drax to do so. Moreover I’m anlso pretty sure that Drax themselves would want a cut of the profits from the sales of each wagon too!
 

That in turn pushes the RRP even higher and it could be that the price the wagons would have to be sold at is so expensive Hornby believe they won’t sell.

 

 

 

 

Seems crazy Drax would miss an opportunity of cheap advertising saving 10s of thousands of £££...for the sake of making a few quid from the sale of the wagons?

[phil-b259]

39 minutes ago, letterspider said:

Seems crazy Drax would miss an opportunity of cheap advertising saving 10s of thousands of £££...for the sake of making a few quid from the sale of the wagons?

Drax are a power generation company not a toy manufacturer and there are a lot cheaper ways to create advertising than commissioning toy trains (as they would see them) - particularly as consumers cannot by energy directly from Drax in the first place.

 

Besides with this controversy https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68381160 hanging over them keeping a low profile as far as the public is probably a good thing right now.

[hmrspaul]

10 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Drax are a power generation company not a toy manufacturer and there are a lot cheaper ways to create advertising than commissioning toy trains (as they would see them) - particularly as consumers cannot by energy directly from Drax in the first place.

 

Besides with this controversy https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68381160 hanging over them keeping a low profile as far as the public is probably a good thing right now.

Yes, dreadful destruction of old growth forest in North America. However, they do like to advertise - the new small batch of wagons built by Davis last year are just as strongly vinyld as the revinyld earlier ones. Most of the new batch are working to Immingham, but a few are mixed in with the earlier wagons on other flows. 

 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/draxbiomass/edc4fe63c   https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/draxbiomass/edc4fe6a8  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/draxbiomass/edc4fe6c8

 

Paul

[phil-b259]

7 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

Yes, dreadful destruction of old growth forest in North America. However, they do like to advertise - the new small batch of wagons built by Davis last year are just as strongly vinyld as the revinyld earlier ones. Most of the new batch are working to Immingham, but a few are mixed in with the earlier wagons on other flows. 

 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/draxbiomass/edc4fe63c   https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/draxbiomass/edc4fe6a8  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/draxbiomass/edc4fe6c8

 

Paul

That rather misses the point that the  real wagons were required for business purposes - regardless of whether they were covered with colourful ‘advertising’ type liveries or mated all over battleship grey.

 

Toy trains by contrast are not something which is needed for business purposes and as such are a completely different thing to new wagons.

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Toy trains by contrast are not something which is needed for business purposes

Marketing are very creative at what toys they create.

if you attend some of the events i goto you might be scared at how much marketing can spend on giveaways.

 

The funniest though by far, was a show in Dubai, the corporate host (a multi-bn $ US company) had locally arranged marketing gifts… in this case it was a traditional hookah pipe and bowl, complete with the US companies corporate logo on. When the US team heard this, they went off the scale as they saw this as nothing other than there corporate logo on a bong.. and immediately had them recall the lot before the show opened and sent to the US for destruction…. I recall these were $100 a piece that was trashed… show opened giving away corporate branded pencils instead.

I recently hosted an event at Man Utd (i know i know), the giveaway we did was branded umbrellas and branded Nike shirts… it was Manchester in december afterall, cost of that was probably greater than a Drax wagon.. we had none left at days end.

Marketing is a business cost and creative by nature, putting a message out isnt cheap and its gimmicks that often give that crucial memory retention when it comes to recalling potential suppliers… Though I have to admit much of the basic trade show tat is toys for my little one… ive any number of corporate fluffy clouds, iphone holders, wireless chargers, magnetic toys, golf balls etc.

 

 

Edited March 14 by adb968008

[PeterStiles]

On 13/03/2024 at 12:15, phil-b259 said:

consumers cannot by energy directly from Drax in the first place.

However they do sell direct to SME / I&C customers through what was "Haven" power, but it's s now branded Drax.

[hmrspaul]

14 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

That rather misses the point that the  real wagons were required for business purposes - regardless of whether they were covered with colourful ‘advertising’ type liveries or mated all over battleship grey.

 

Toy trains by contrast are not something which is needed for business purposes and as such are a completely different thing to new wagons.

And you miss my point which that the company doesn't hide what it does, Instead, and unlike virtually all other railway freight users, they spend thousands, probably tens of thousands putting  vinyls on the side of these enormous (by UK standards) wagons to explain what they believe they are achieving by burning mature north American forests with a very large bonus from UK taxpayers via Government grants. 

 

Paul

[phil-b259]

18 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

And you miss my point which that the company doesn't hide what it does, Instead, and unlike virtually all other railway freight users, they spend thousands, probably tens of thousands putting  vinyls on the side of these enormous (by UK standards) wagons to explain what they believe they are achieving by burning mature north American forests with a very large bonus from UK taxpayers via Government grants. 

 

Paul

I’m not missing the point - but the bottom line is that to move the pellets on the rail network they need real wagons!

 

No wagons - no fuel - no power generated = massive losses.

 

Plastering the sides with adverts is this incidental - seeing as they have to be painted anyway.

 

By contrast they manifestly do not need toy trains to generate money nor attract dither business. If they need additional marketing material then branded pens, golf balls, keychains, usb drives, etc are much easier and cheaper to procure, plus far more likely to be used / picked up by the intended audience than toy trains.

Edited March 14 by phil-b259

[Bryn_Bach_Railway]

Finally managed to pick up the tfw 67 in black yesterday. nice to see its been updated to 21 pin and has some decoder controlled lighting functionality. 

 

 

 

fitted my example with a Zimo MN340C, and have the following DCC controlled lighting;

F0 - Directional lighting including Head/Night* lights, Tail lights, and the side marker lights

F1 - Lights off No1 end

F2 - Lights off No2 end

F3 - Directional top marker light

 

*switching between the Day and Night headlight is still controlled by a switch on the underside of the loco.

 

very pleased with is as I have been all my 67's, and very glad to see the extra lighting capability. will do a bit more research to see if this can be a simple PCB swap for the older models too.

 

hopefully Hornby will do the matching Mk4 coaches and DVT once TFW get them into the final livery. would be a nice touch to have the remembrance DVT too! 

[Fredo]

Hi, I am looking forward to getting a model of 61306 as preserved. Is the loco fitted with air brakes and modern equipment on its tender?

[XChris]

On 24/03/2024 at 14:29, Fredo said:

Hi, I am looking forward to getting a model of 61306 as preserved. Is the loco fitted with air brakes and modern equipment on its tender?

The actual loco is fitted with Air brakes and a (Westinghouse?) air pump as such, will be fully fitted with GSMR, AWS and modern equipment. Whether the model is correct is another question…

[stonojnr]

On 14/03/2024 at 13:50, phil-b259 said:

By contrast they manifestly do not need toy trains to generate money nor attract dither business. If they need additional marketing material then branded pens, golf balls, keychains, usb drives, etc are much easier and cheaper to procure, plus far more likely to be used / picked up by the intended audience than toy trains.

 

maybe Im missing something incredibly obvious here, but if the moulds already exist, and the demand is clearly there given how the last batch sold out, all Drax have to do is give the nod to Hornby, and they will go make some more and receive some money eventually for actually doing very little on their part.

 

it doesnt matter if they dont need toy trains to generate money, and at some stage they obviously understood toy trains to allow their wagons to be made and to own the permissive rights to them, but its essentially free cash to them at this stage, and if the marketeers at Drax cant join those dots together, why on earth arent the marketeers at Hornby bashing down their door and explaining it to them in terms they do understand.

 

its not like theyre saying Drax need to invest more of their cash to create a brand new wagon in the hopes of getting some tiny piece of payback, and small amount of pr goodwill, all they have to do is press the go button on the machine and crank some more out.

 

 

[adb968008]

On 24/03/2024 at 15:29, Fredo said:

Is the loco fitted with air brakes and modern equipment on its tender?

I await to be amazed on that …

 

but it says its this era, but it wasnt AB until 2022, they could claim it in the 2019-2022 period with VB only.

Edited March 31 by adb968008

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 13/03/2024 at 23:07, phil-b259 said:

Toy trains by contrast are not something which is needed for business purposes and as such are a completely different thing to new wagons.

 

So why not give up the design or sell it to Hornby?

[No Decorum]

On 14/03/2024 at 13:50, phil-b259 said:

 

… dither business.

A Freudian slip if ever there was one. It sums up model railway purchasing for so many of us these days!

[BrakeCoach]

Has anyone got the Railroad Plus Class 47 in the previous range? Is it worth it?

A sound fitted 47 for 110 seems not too bad.

Edited April 13 by BrakeCoach