End of Warley National Show - but now it's not the end of a show at the NEC.

[Pete Haitch]

Well I'm planning a trip to Aylesbury purely to see BeiJiao and the 'wow' moves - double banking with accompanying whistles controlling the choreography, a train longer than many entire layouts crossing several running tracks, watching a train from one end of the layout to get the perspective effect of it growing larger as it approaches, a cappella renditions of traditional Chinese folk songs by the operating team, and other special train moves yet to be revealed.  If there is a small pause in train movements to set these up, so be it.  I might bring a shooting stick to selfishly spend more than my fair share of time appreciating it.

 

I went to a smaller exhibition last year at which the choice of layouts suggested that most of the contemporary rail network is comprised of traction depots and no train is longer than three 4 wheel fuel tanks. The rest were mainly BLT, perhaps with a wharf or a dairy, with a maximum train length of two bogie coaches or five wagons. For me, the bigger layouts with running lines that show a full length train moving through the 'countryside' actually give perspective and relevance to the smaller (often exquisitely modelled) layouts. I love the small layouts, but three cheers for the individuals and teams who commit vast amount of time (and budget), sometimes for a decade or more, to show a different aspect of the  hobby.

 

Finally: Bravo Warley, best wishes for the future to all at Hattons, a toast to all the show managers and volunteers, and thanks to all those who have provide me with much pleasure by putting their modelling on the line display in print, on this forum and at exhibitions.

[PMP]

8 hours ago, Metropolitan said:

. And worrying. I've been away from the hobby until recently after a fifteen ish year break. And I have found that there is little new blood. It's the same old familiar names.

You’ve not been looking very hard if you’ve not seen the large number of new entrants into the  manufacturing, and social media side of the hobby.

[MarkSG]

4 hours ago, Chris M said:

It is interesting to note that the business run shows tend to have around 30 layouts and fill the rest of the space with trade stands. I'm not criticising the organisers of these shows because business has to make as good a profit as it can in order to stay in business. The two largest shows run by clubs tend to have around 50 layouts which sort of illustrates the difference between a club show and a commercial show. Long may shows of all types and sizes continue!

 

I have to say that I don't actually mind a bigger proportion of trade to layout at the bigger shows. There's a practical limit to the number of layouts I can watch in a day anyway, at least if I want to spend a decent amount of time at each one. And the more traders there are, the more likely it is that there will be one selling something I'm interested in.

 

With the decrease in model shops, shows are a very important opportunity to view new products before buying them. I know that most traders are on the web these days, but unless you've already heard of them there's no way of knowing that they're there. Or, even if you are aware of them, there's no easy way to assess the quality and appeal of the products without seeing them in person.

 

There have been quite a lot of instances where I've first come across a trader at a show and then bought their products online later. But I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't seen them at the show first. So trade is important to visitors, not just the show organisers. 

[finelines]

If Warley was the window on our hobby, what pictureare we going to see when it comes round to the anniversary in the winter? Are there more surprises to come?

 

Roger

[Metropolitan]

33 minutes ago, PMP said:

You’ve not been looking very hard if you’ve not seen the large number of new entrants into the  manufacturing, and social media side of the hobby.

Oh I have. And that's great. But I've also noticed that the hobby's backbone, Hornby, isn't investing in new models bar one. And they ain't daft. TT is a gamble which may or may not pay off. 
 

Looking at my SR RTR loco collection I note that I have 12 Hornby, 6 Bachman/EFE, 3 Dapol, 1 Oxford Rail and one Kernow with one from Rapido due this year.

Edited January 13 by Metropolitan

[vikingsmb]

20 hours ago, Ben B said:

I feel saddened by this... it's understandable, and better to go out on a high, but still sad. I used to go to Warley when it was at the Mitchell centre, but I had several trips to the later NEC show when I was growing up, as it fell near to my birthday. I hadn't been for years though, I reckoned my kids were too young for such a massive show, then the Covid pandemic, then the train strikes... ah well.

 

And to give my own perspective on the comments people have been making about age and the hobby... I'm nearly 40, last year I went along to my local club who meet on Thursday evenings, with an intention of joining the G gauge group. I'd not been able to previously, as Thursdays was choir night for the kids, but they're older now, and can get themselves there, or easier get lifts with mates.

But... I was apologetically told that the G gauge group now meet on Tues afternoons. No doubt suits the predominently retired members, and their reasoning was understandable (feeling vulnerable coming out of a big, old building after dark in a not terrifically safe area). But for younger members in full time jobs, not possible.

I'm also a Scout Leader; we have a real crisis in getting new leaders. We used to have 4 younger leaders in their early 20's, but lost them all to job pressures. Evening shifts, unsociable contracts, pressure to relocate to avoid redundancies... Even my supposed 7.5 hours a day, weekdays only job frequently turns into 10, 11 hour days with little warning. Modern working conditions just aren't geared towards regular volunteering hobbies in a lot of cases.

 

I don't think there's a shortage of youngsters who could get into the hobby; in my experience with Scouts and prior school DT jobs, kids love practical tasks, when given opportunity and encouragement (and don't get me started about funding cuts to DT and art departments). But the problem seems to be the current long hours, irregular, short or zero-guarenteed-hours contracts common to the job market, which just culls free time.

alot of organisations are having same issue mate, struggling to get volunteers.

[PMP]

1 minute ago, Metropolitan said:

Oh I have. And that's great. But I've also noticed that the hobby's backbone, Hornby, aren't investing in new models bar one. And they ain't daft.

That’s not what you said though. You said there was little new blood in the fifteen years you’ve been away. There is, there’s plenty of it.

You’ve not bothered to mention that Hornby have specifically said this is a year of catching up. 200 new products will be in their range this year including new tooling of at least one new locomotive, and their TT120 range. So that contradicts your comment and that’s information from Hornby themselves. Not to mention their excellent and enthusiastically welcomed Airfix products.
 

Hornby are important, of that there is no doubt, but the hobby won’t die if they aren’t there.

[Listerboy]

I've never been, but out of curiosity , what was the cost of going? Entrance fee and catering wise. 

 

Was the attendance growing or falling? 

Edited January 13 by Listerboy

[MarkSG]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

Looks like there’s an article in Telegraph . I can’t see it because it’s behind paywall  but it seems to be centred around lack of new blood in the hobby . 

 

It's available for free on MSN:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/death-of-the-model-railway-as-ageing-enthusiasts-run-out-of-steam/ar-AA1mSvNy

[PMP]

31 minutes ago, Listerboy said:

I've never been, but out of curiousity, what was the cost of going? Entrance fee and catering wise. 

 

Was the attendance growing or falling? 

For me, 90 miles away.

Return fuel for car £20-30

Day parking NEC £18

Ticket on the day £25

Burger and drink at venue £12?

NB if I went by public transport the cost would like be higher and far more difficult to attend.

 

So perhaps £80 for a day out.

If I went to see Stevenage FC at home league one, (old money division 3) and took a seat in the stands, with slightly further to travel the cost is probably around £10 less. if using public transport the cost would be quite a bit higher.

Warley was in my opinion reasonable value for money as an event, most of my modelling friends were of a similar opinion. As to attendee numbers my understanding is that they were usually around mid teens for the whole weekend.

 

NB a FB post from a friend who’s at the motorsports show at NEC today. Door entry £38 for basic ticket, car parking NEC standard £18.

 

 

Edited January 13 by PMP
Addition

[Northerngirl]

Not been reading everything here, but haven't really seen model world live mentioned yet, its cheaper, same location and has alot of big names behind it.

[MarkSG]

6 minutes ago, Listerboy said:

I've never been, but out of curiousity, what was the cost of going? Entrance fee and catering wise. 

 

Was the attendance growing or falling? 

 

On the door prices last year were £21 for an adult. There's no free parking on site, so you had to either pay for parking or go by train (or bus or taxi, if you live locally). Parking costs were, IIRC, £18 a car, or a bit less if you were willing to walk further. Catering costs were typical exhibition hall prices - that is, about 25% higher than you'd pay for the same thing on the high street.

 

So it was expensive, and probably the most expensive of all the large shows. But, if you look at it in terms of cost per layout, it was still value for money. You got a lot of show for your entrance fee.

 

I have no idea about attendance, but my impression last year was that it was no more or less crowded than it has been in the past. The organisers can probably give more accurate figures if they're so inclined. But, from reading the press release and comments here, attendance wasn't the issue. The show was still profitable to run, which is the bottom line. It's simply that the organisers were running out of people with the time and dedication to do the work.

[MarkSG]

5 minutes ago, Northerngirl said:

Not been reading everything here, but haven't really seen model world live mentioned yet, its cheaper, same location and has alot of big names behind it.

 

Model World Live isn't quite the same thing. It's a multi-discipline modelling show, rather than just model railways - at time of writing, the website for it only lists ten model railway layouts, although it does say that more will be announced. It's also in a smaller (and less convenient) hall than Warley - I know Warley didn't use the whole of Hall 5, but the amount of the hall they did use is still larger than Hall 17 where Model World Live will take place.

 

That's not to say that MWL will be any less good a show. It's being professionally run by people who have a track record of successful shows elsewhere. So I expect it will be worth going to, particularly if you are interested in more than just railway models. But it's not a like-for-like replacement for Warley.

[Metropolitan]

31 minutes ago, PMP said:

You said there was little new blood in the fifteen years you’ve been away. There is, there’s plenty of it.

Where? 

[John M Upton]

One thing about shows is popularity, no denying they are popular but that is now leading to another problem, severe overcrowding.  I have just returned from the excellent Bognor Regis MRC show, I was there for doors opening and for the first twenty minutes/half an hour it was okay but after that it became tightly packed and busy which was a shame a there were some very good layouts and trade there which became near impossible to see.

 

This seems to be a problem at most events I attend now, too much crammed into to far too small a space leading to being unable to see what it is I travelled to and paid to see!

 

As a result I have decided to no longer to attend Ally Pally anymore (last year was just awful for seeing exhibits to the point where, a few bargains I acquired but only after easing myself through a impolite scrum to reach them) I saw hardly anything except the odd layout where nothing was moving and technical faults were aplenty.

 

So, in addition to the growing issue of ageing volunteers, the shows as a whole need to start rethinking space, visibility and access if they are to continue to attract visitors.

Edited January 13 by John M Upton

[woodenhead]

The world revolves and we all move along, life is a constant series of events that happen until one day we die.

 

All that has happened this week is that two beloved things in UK model railways have wound down, there are still plenty of model shops and still plenty of exhibitions.  What else may happen in 2024 will happen, it's just a series of life events and if model railways one day cease to be big business it will be because the world no longer needs or wants it.

 

Gnashing of teeth or blaming younger people for not taking up the hobby will not help and really it's not our choice is it, all we can do is enjoy what we have now and be glad we've had the opportunity to play trains for so long.

 

Whilst Hornby might still be in the doldrums, in reality it has been this way for a long time and it's still here delivering models even started a new scale which is apparently proving popular.  Bachmann is still producing models even if not at the rate it used to, Dapol is still going strong as is Heljan.  And despite all the worry about impending implosion of model railways we've seen Accurascale deliver masses of new items, Rapido enter the UK market and two smaller companies RevolutioN and Cavalex also deliver high quality models that have been well received.

 

So this week we've had some bad news, but it's not all over for model railways and whilst it's not my thing I applaud Pete Waterman for raising the profile of model railways again with his big WCML Making Tracks model that has been drawing crowds to exhibitions.  There is a new show at the NEC in the Spring, not as big as Warley, but from little shoots mighty trees can grow so who knows what it might be in a couple of years though I doubt it will reach the size of Warley which probably was pushing the limits and really a big risk.

 

We can look at this week through two optics - glass half empty or glass half full, I am learning to remain optimistic.  It's sad to see two old friends go, but there is still plenty to enjoy and look forward to and we need to enjoy life whilst we can because all to soon it is over.

[PMP]

6 minutes ago, Metropolitan said:

Where? 

Oh dear. It’s presumably in the same place that you found it. You know, when you told us about an hour ago that you knew about them.

 

[Neil]

24 minutes ago, PMP said:

For me, 90 miles away.

Return fuel for car £20-30

Day parking NEC £18

Ticket on the day £25

Burger and drink at venue £12?

NB if I went by public transport the cost would like be higher and far more difficult to attend.

 

So perhaps £80 for a day out.

If I went to see Stevenage FC at home league one, (old money division 3) and took a seat in the stands, with slightly further to travel the cost is probably around £10 less. if using public transport the cost would be quite a bit higher.

Warley was in my opinion reasonable value for money as an event, most of my modelling friends were of a similar opinion. As to attendee numbers my understanding is that they were usually around mid teens for the whole weekend.

 

 

 

The travel costs interest me. I've just checked and from home (Tywyn) to Birmingham International the return train fare varies between £32 and £37. According to Google the most direct route by road is 126 miles, the train will travel a few more miles looking at the map. Of course the economics of travelling by car improve if you share the cost with friends, but then again there are railcard discounts and group travel discounts if you go by rail. The last time I went to the Warley Show was before covid and if memory serves me well it cost about sixty quid for train, entrance and dinner.

[PaulRhB]

4 minutes ago, Northerngirl said:

Not been reading everything here, but haven't really seen model world live mentioned yet, its cheaper, same location and has alot of big names behind it.

 

 

It has in passing but it’s not pure model railways so a bit of an unknown. The entry fee may be cheaper, more big sponsoring for a new enterprise from Hornby group?, but all the NEC stuff people loved to moan about is identical 😉

 

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

11 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

One thing about shows is popularity, no denying they are popular but that is now leading to another problem, severe overcrowding.  I have just returned from the excellent Bognor Regis MRC show, I was there for doors opening and for the first twenty minutes/half an hour it was okay but after that it became tightly packed and busy which was a shame a there were some very good layouts and trade there which became near impossible to see.

 

This seems to be a problem at most events I attend now, too much crammed into to far too small a space leading to being unable to see what it is I travelled to and paid to see!

 

And there is the conundrum - organisers want/need crowds, but when they get the crowds they need it puts people off going! 

[Metropolitan]

15 minutes ago, PMP said:

Oh dear. It’s presumably in the same place that you found it. You know, when you told us about an hour ago that you knew about them.

 

New commercial people. Not hobbyists. Where are all the young people entering the hobby as you suggested? I don't expect it matters.

Edited January 13 by Metropolitan

[MarkSG]

19 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

One thing about shows is popularity, no denying they are popular but that is now leading to another problem, severe overcrowding.  I have just returned from the excellent Bognor Regis MRC show, I was there for doors opening and for the first twenty minutes/half an hour it was okay but after that it became tightly packed and busy which was a shame a there were some very good layouts and trade there which became near impossible to see.

 

This seems to be a problem at most events I attend now, too much crammed into to far too small a space leading to being unable to see what it is I travelled to and paid to see!

 

I think that's a fair point. One of the things I've really liked about the Stafford show's move to a new hall (same location, just a bigger unit) is how spacious it feels. Obviously, the number of people viewing each layout is the same, so you can still get situations where you have to wait your turn to get close to the barrier. But the wider aisles make it so much easier to move around. And the extra space means that layouts designed to be viewed from two or three (or even four) sides can be given a spot which allows that.

 

The issue from the organisers' perspective, of course, is that a bigger hall usually costs more to hire, so to recoup that you need more people through the door (and more traders paying for a space), and the obvious way to do that is make the show bigger so that it's more attractive to attend - particularly to people who will travel further for a bigger show than they will for a medium-sized one. Which is fine, but if it works you end up just as crowded as you would be with a smaller show in a smaller hall.

 

I don't think there's an easy solution to that. From my perspective as a show attendee, I'd prefer the organisers of large shows to focus on quality rather than quantity of layouts. But that's easier said than done, and I suspect we're all a bit guilty of looking at the numbers when deciding whether to go or not. 

[rogerzilla]

Warley was always a magnificent enigma - how did a model railway club from an almost unknown part of the Black Country end up running an annual NEC show?  My understanding is that they were invited to do so by the NEC, rather than deciding to put on such a show in the first instance.  Still incredible that it ran for so long and was so famous.  I've only been twice but I shall miss it, especially as we'll be living much closer next year.

[Metropolitan]

 

[Phil Parker]

3 minutes ago, Metropolitan said:

 

 

There you go then, a young person. And there are plenty more on social media. Sorry if that sinks your argument (I know it won't, we could find coach loads of youngsters and that wouldn't either.).

 

As for price (groan), am I the only person who goes to things other than toy train shows? Entrance fees are similar, and the petrol costs the same. Shows are good value for money. A days entertainment for less than the price of 90 minutes of football, or one anc a bit trips to the cinema.