Accentuate the negative - who's trying to kill the hobby?

[YT-1300]

I think clubs and show are very important to the hobby and the loss of them would be detrimental.

 

I joined a club a number of years back and met some really nice folk, and formed some strong friendships, I also gained a wider network of friends that are members of other clubs, and gained a number of friends that stop and chat at each exhibition I'm at, even if I am a visitor and not an exhibitor.  

 

I left that club along with some other members and we formed our own informal club, we all work on each others layouts, help out exhibiting and above all, have developed our friendships into really strong bonds.  

 

We also share our knowledge, expertise and opinions.  I would not know anywhere near as much as I do about any part of the hobby without these friendships, and I wouldn't have these friendships without that first model railway club that I joined, whom I'd heard about at a model railway show.

 

I was a lone modeller from my early years, through to my late 30's and I reckon I learned more about modelling  in the first few months in that club than I did all those 30 years on my own with the monthly mags.  It gave me the confidence to try new techniques, build my own layout and exhibit it and get it published in a magazine.  Without shows and clubs I would have none of that.  Face to face interaction is seriously under-rated these days.

 

I am in no way a loner, I am lucky to have a wide circle of friends both in general and related to other hobbies.

I appreciate some of the YouTube channels that show progress on layouts, such as Everard Junction, but I switch off as soon as there are shots of trains running - I'd much rather see them at an exhibition.  I can't be alone in noticing that a growing number of people at shows just point their phone at a layout, film trains moving and nothing else, no focussing on scenes or details.  Are they taking anything in?

 

The hobby wouldn't die if clubs and shows were no more, but it would be much poorer for it.

 

[APOLLO]

3 hours ago, osbornsmodels said:

11 pages now of non modelling activity!!

 

The future ?  Who knows but well worth a watch. This is real, AI next ? (God help us).

 

 

Brit15

[bradfordbuffer]

33 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I do disagree.

my little one has been a rail enthusiast since birth, she started copying my dad at 4 years old writing down numbers. she has been on more footplates than I ever had… 08, 20, 37,50, 73,87,165,313, 345, 390, 455, 800, plus also locos like SECR c class, 3 bulleids, black 5, a4 etc.

She has also dismantled a Bachmann 03 to pieces, reassembled it, learned a Lima pancake and moved onto robotics as a teenager.

She has several role models in the industry seen on the network, plus youtube etc. female loco drivers, female youtubers etc

She also drags me to various events, which means I travel the network with my eyes wider open.. 

 

I see youngsters, not necessarily where I see elders…. The Pride pendolino, 700155 both attract a following, some units are very popular…. There was quite a crowd watching the 68’s the other week. You dont get 2m tiktock followers by singing a song about 455’s to middle aged guys.. but one has.

 

I will make a prediction that you will see crowds in thousands this year when SWR 455’s bow out, they will be male, female, younger and multi-race…

 

The railways don't have the class variation of BR, but they do have many more livery variations…. Thats before we start talking heritage.

The hobby has grown a  younger basee, its much more socially acceptable today than the 1980’s to be a young enthusiast, its much easier to connect, not just with UK enthusiasts, but like minded enthusiasts globally… i had a great time talking with japanese rail fans at KX making a holiday purely to ride 800’s.

The hobby isnt short of support, imo, the issue is the youngsters are not aligned with the older generation and its not commercially harnessed either… if the hobby wants to bridge that gap, it needs to start looking at what the youngsters are doing, which might mean exiting a comfort zone… a limited edition with an NFT maybe?

 

Take a look at the last hst run into Leeds and it's ecs to Nevin hill on YT.....the HST was the eldest there! (Not exactly historical accurate but a artistic dramatisation! Alistair the driver was older than the hst set but only be a few years😄)

[Fair Oak Junction]

40 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

The future ?  Who knows but well worth a watch. This is real, AI next ? (God help us).

 

That video is a perfect example. Youtube opens the window to this wonderfully global hobby, showing us layouts that we would never get to see at a model show.

So many of the most incredible and detailed North American layouts are like that one, permanently living in someone's madly big basement. Never going to see that at a show!

Or the multitude of utterly amazing Japanese layouts out there. You very rarely see Japanese layouts at UK shows, and some Japanese railway modellers are true artists.

I don't understand choosing to ignore a form of media that allows you to experience layouts you would never see and watch tutorials by some of the worlds greatest modellers.

How can that ever be a waste of time? I'll never understand that one. And it's not like you have to make a choice, you can easily go to shows and watch YT videos 😄

Edited January 17 by Fair Oak Junction

[adb968008]

On 16/01/2024 at 15:21, Colin_McLeod said:

But no one can ever seem to be able to say when…

 

[ELTEL]

1 hour ago, YT-1300 said:

I think clubs and show are very important to the hobby and the loss of them would be detrimental.

 

I joined a club a number of years back and met some really nice folk, and formed some strong friendships, I also gained a wider network of friends that are members of other clubs, and gained a number of friends that stop and chat at each exhibition I'm at, even if I am a visitor and not an exhibitor.  

 

I left that club along with some other members and we formed our own informal club, we all work on each others layouts, help out exhibiting and above all, have developed our friendships into really strong bonds.  

 

We also share our knowledge, expertise and opinions.  I would not know anywhere near as much as I do about any part of the hobby without these friendships, and I wouldn't have these friendships without that first model railway club that I joined, whom I'd heard about at a model railway show.

 

I was a lone modeller from my early years, through to my late 30's and I reckon I learned more about modelling  in the first few months in that club than I did all those 30 years on my own with the monthly mags.  It gave me the confidence to try new techniques, build my own layout and exhibit it and get it published in a magazine.  Without shows and clubs I would have none of that.  Face to face interaction is seriously under-rated these days.

 

I am in no way a loner, I am lucky to have a wide circle of friends both in general and related to other hobbies.

I appreciate some of the YouTube channels that show progress on layouts, such as Everard Junction, but I switch off as soon as there are shots of trains running - I'd much rather see them at an exhibition.  I can't be alone in noticing that a growing number of people at shows just point their phone at a layout, film trains moving and nothing else, no focussing on scenes or details.  Are they taking anything in?

 

The hobby wouldn't die if clubs and shows were no more, but it would be much poorer for it.

 

Well said that man

Terry 

[Jol Wilkinson]

49 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

 

That video is a perfect example. Youtube opens the window to this wonderfully global hobby, showing us layouts that we would never get to see at a model show.

So many of the most incredible and detailed North American layouts are like that one, permanently living in someone's madly big basement. Never going to see that at a show!

Or the multitude of utterly amazing Japanese layouts out there. You very rarely see Japanese layouts at UK shows, and some Japanese railway modellers are true artists.

I don't understand choosing to ignore a form of media that allows you to experience layouts you would never see and watch tutorials by some of the worlds greatest modellers.

How can that ever be a waste of time? I'll never understand that one. And it's not like you have to make a choice, you can easily go to shows and watch YT videos 😄

 

Whilst videos can show layouts that can only be seen in the owners home, much also depends on the quality of the filming. Often a video fails to capture the extent and overall view of a layout, something which you can appreciate when seeing it at an exhibition. You ca, if you wish, also interact with the layout builders/operators as well as other viewers 

 

Social media, dvds and books provides a platform for teaching and sharing skills and techniques but there are often times when a one to one meeting provides a much better opportunity to learn. Why else are there demonstrators at many shows? How thick should the paint really be when you are airbrushing it, why does someone's attempts at soldering not work, how can I make this loco run better, etc. etc.

 

I am a member of a national model railway society area group with eleven members. Two are also model engineers, one has a comprehensive woodwork shop, one is an experienced CAD etched kit designer, another an outstanding model figure painter  (from a wargaming background), some are experienced kit and track builders. So there is a lot of experience, capability, tools and experience to be shared within the group.

 

So whilst many people may prefer to model in isolation, there can be advantages from being within a club or group. How many of the solo modellers also attend shows, a significant number I would suggest. So while social media provides another way to share information and see layouts, for many the "social" side of modelling is also very important and can play a part in their modelling journey.

 

 

 

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

I really do feel people still aren't quite getting my point. I'm NOT arguing against shows, clubs, one-to-one/group interactions, etc, etc.

I was arguing against someone who said model railways on social media/Youtube was a pointless waste of time, and that the loss of shows/clubs would lead to the death of the hobby.

All these aspects of the hobby work in harmony. I would refer back to my "shades of grey" comment on page 11 😉

Edited January 17 by Fair Oak Junction

[Re6/6]

On 16/01/2024 at 15:21, Colin_McLeod said:

 

 

[bradfordbuffer]

7 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Where Deadmans Lane will be available to be videoed...........

Absolutely shameless plug.....🙈

[bradfordbuffer]

Is he Internet snooping on you...

Must be as this just popped up on YT from 13 years ago!

 

 

[Dagworth]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

But no one can ever seem to be able to say when…

 

It's nigher than ever before!

 

Andi

[BachelorBoy]

Well done for Hatton's for lasting so long!

 

77-year-old companies, in any line of business in the UK, are rare. 

 

This is from the Companies House website

 

 

Edited January 18 by BachelorBoy
added graph

[jjb1970]

The reason for most of the less attractive traits in most hobbies seems to originate from people thinking their choices should be the choices of everyone else and that their conception of what the hobby should be is an absolute.

 

As other have indicated, the hobby of model trains is a broad one, extending from my current position of just playing trains on the floor (thankfully no carpet to worry about) with Unitrack through a wide spectrum to fine gauge scratch building. There is also a point where we could question when does the hobby become engineering as some build large scale live steam locomotives (noting most aspects of model trains beyond an oval of track need some degree of engineering with regards wiring). And there is the linked but to me separate hobby of collecting. To me it doesn't matter where people land on that spectrum, if people enjoy their hobby then great. Do what you enjoy and like, like and enjoy what you do. If you get satisfaction from the hobby, however you practice it, then what does it matter what anyone else thinks? Equally, why should anyone try telling others what the hobby is?

 

This is not a model train thing. The photography world has lots of camera enthusiasts pushing their own pet ideas on how we should all be taking photographs (must go full frame blah blah blah), most sports seem to have participants that seem to know the answers to everything and what everyone else should be doing in the sport, music fans who seem to consider themselves empowered to tell the world what constitutes good music worthy of being listened to etc. This is why when I am doing something new or shopping and need information I tend to avoid asking real enthusiasts as rather than getting a normal sort of answer ('yeah, that's a decent xxxxx, it works well enough and will do what you need, if you like the design and are happy with the price it'll be fine') it often ends up in some sort of sermon on the evils of listening to music through any medium other than vinyl and such like.

 

Do what you like and just enjoy the hobby. Message boards are all about discussion and sharing opinions, and that's great (I'm as opinionated as anyone, probably more so) but if nobody else shares your ideas of the hobby then it doesn't matter. Nobody can determine what the hobby should or shouldn't be as an absolute, they can of course share their opinions on what they think it should be (and we might agree) but it's just an opinion.

[BachelorBoy]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

 

This is not a model train thing. The photography world has lots of camera enthusiasts pushing their own pet ideas....

 

An interesting parallel with model railways: very few camera shops left

[Mikkel]

But more everyday photographers and photos than ever before.

[BachelorBoy]

12 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

But more everyday photographers and photos than ever before.

 

True. But they don't buy cameras from camera shops :-)

 

[Gilbert]

13 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

True. But they don't buy cameras from camera shops :-)

 

I do!

https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/

[Mikkel]

Staying with the thought, will 3D printers do to modelling what mobile phone cameras have done to photography?

[Neil]

9 hours ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

I really do feel people still aren't quite getting my point. I'm NOT arguing against shows, clubs, one-to-one/group interactions, etc, etc.

I was arguing against someone who said model railways on social media/Youtube was a pointless waste of time, and that the loss of shows/clubs would lead to the death of the hobby.

All these aspects of the hobby work in harmony. I would refer back to my "shades of grey" comment on page 11 😉

 

There are many excellent reasons why layout videos deserve their place in the hobby. Social anxiety, distance and the fact that some layouts may never appear at exhibitions have been mentioned. Some layout videos cover the build process of both layout and its constituent parts, something that's impossible to demonstrate at an exhibition as days, weeks, months of build time can be compressed into an easily digested segment of time.

 

For the cash strapped enthusiast it removes the cost of travel, entrance fee and refreshments. There's also an argument to be made that by removing the travel element it helps to combat climate change.

Edited January 18 by Neil

[TEAMYAKIMA]

10 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Staying with the thought, will 3D printers do to modelling what mobile phone cameras have done to photography?

 

It's an interesting question - let's see.

[NHY 581]

7 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

"The reason for most of the less attractive traits in most hobbies seems to originate from people thinking their choices should be the choices of everyone else and that their conception of what the hobby should be is an absolute."

 

"why should anyone try telling others what the hobby is?"

 

" Nobody can determine what the hobby should or shouldn't be as an absolute "

 

Good points. 

 

 

Certainly there are some for whom RTR, despite the high quality of the recent items, in all scales,  emerging onto the market is just not an option, a real anathema. They'd rather purchase a kit of the same item and spend time building it. That's absolutely fine and I tip my hat to you but please don't decry those who prefer the RTR alternative. If they want to move to kit building they will but don't bang on about the satisfaction you will have and imply that there's no satisfaction gained from basing your modelling on RTR products. 

 

Good modelling is simply that, irrespective of how it's arrived at and even if it's not up to "your standards", pause and try to understand what it means to the modeller. 

 

Don't compromise on your standards but enjoy the modelling for what it is and respect the achievements of the builder. 

 

A few kind words cost nothing. Harsh words could cause the individual to loose heart and pack in the hobby. 

 

Rob

[2ManySpams]

42 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Staying with the thought, will 3D printers do to modelling what mobile phone cameras have done to photography?

 

Couple of thoughts.

 

It's a different skill set drawing up cad and getting the blessed prints to work properly - not everyone wants or can move in that direction.

 

After spending all day at work on a computer, the last thing I want in my leisure time is to spend more time on it. I much prefer low tech, hands-on modelling.

 

It's early days yet with materials, and we probably don't know how long printed things will last and how durable they will be over time. Bakelite anyone?

 

Because 3d printing involves tech and a different skill set it could well encourage different people into the hobby, which is a good thing.

 

The scope of 3d printing is only limited by your creativity (and some practical limitations) and the ability to do lots of identical repeats can be a real asset in some cases.

 

I don't have a 3d printer myself but am more than happy to make use of the products where appropriate. For instance, @mudmagnet produced these for me in 7mm scale:

 

 

They are far better than I could have produced by hand, better than metal castings I've used before and saved me a rather laborious task. 3d printing is however not the answer for the rather large building they go on. Horses for courses.

[BachelorBoy]

A counterfactual to consider: where would the hobby be now without Thomas the Tank Engine, Harry Potter, Lego, and YouTube?

 

 

 

[John B]

17 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I think you need a good dose of a small but perfectly formed informal show. I know our members' day would be a trek to Taunton but you get the idea.

 

Or a large and perfectly formed one, like Stafford, set out with wide aisles and space to breathe and easily holding 50 layouts, with a large audience, yet still feeling comfortable for exhibitor and punter alike. Easily the best show I've attended since returning to the UK..