Hornby Magazine Event at the NEC April 2024

[ardbealach]

A modelling friend has a multi award winning layout.  He received a note inviting the layout to the Hornby Magazine exhibition to be held at the NEC in Birmingham at the end of April.  His layout had appeared at a previous Key Publishing model railway exhibition, and it has also had a write up in Hornby Magazine.   

Naturally he was delighted to receive the invitation to this new exhibition - until he read the small print attached to his invitation - which reads 

‘As with previous shows we will cover travel expenses for van hire, but in a change to our previous events we are asking for layout owners to arrange their own accommodation which we will then contribute towards. The payment offered is £35 per head - the equivalent of £70 per night based on twin occupancy that we usually provide’. 

 

It is normal practice for traders to find, and pay for, their own accommodation when they attend shows, and to pay a ‘rental’ to the show organisers for their stall space.  At the end of the weekend the organiser and traders will bank the money they have taken over the weekend.  And no doubt their out of pocket expenses and those overnight hotel bills for their trading weekend will be tax deductible.  

In my opinion, visitors attend shows to see the layouts, not to see an array of traders.  It is the layouts which draw the visitors to shows, and with the added bonus that the visitors have their shopping lists to hand to make their purchases from the traders.    Layout operators give their time attending shows, with no financial advantage.  

To now ask layout owners, and their operators, to subsidise the organiser of a show is, in my opinion, setting a worrying precedent.   My fear fear is others may follow the Hornby Magazine example.

My modelling friend has politely decline the kind invitation to take his layout to the NEC in April. [Alisdair]
 

Edited January 22 by AY Mod
Title amendment

[woodenhead]

I guess one way to look at it from the organiser's perspective is that organising the accomodation takes time, puts the onus on the organiser to resolve any gripes and also to pay the hotels.

 

By giving the exhibiter an allowance resolves that problem, they choose their own accomodation so cannot complain about what they are given.  But on the other side, at somewhere like the NEC where accomodation is probably limited and often full then it makes it harder for the exhibitor to find the accomodation.  Another upside for the organiser and witnessed in other industries - the allowances may not go up in line with inflation or take account of the location / scarcity and cost of accomodation local to the exhibition.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, ardbealach said:

A modelling friend has a multi award winning layout.  He received a note inviting the layout to the Hornby Magazine exhibition to be held at the NEC in Birmingham at the end of April.  His layout had appeared at a previous Key Publishing model railway exhibition, and it has also had a write up in Hornby Magazine.   

Naturally he was delighted to receive the invitation to this new exhibition - until he read the small print attached to his invitation - which reads 

‘As with previous shows we will cover travel expenses for van hire, but in a change to our previous events we are asking for layout owners to arrange their own accommodation which we will then contribute towards. The payment offered is £35 per head - the equivalent of £70 per night based on twin occupancy that we usually provide’. 

 

It is normal practice for traders to find, and pay for, their own accommodation when they attend shows, and to pay a ‘rental’ to the show organisers for their stall space.  At the end of the weekend the organiser and traders will bank the money they have taken over the weekend.  And no doubt their out of pocket expenses and those overnight hotel bills for their trading weekend will be tax deductible.  

In my opinion, visitors attend shows to see the layouts, not to see an array of traders.  It is the layouts which draw the visitors to shows, and with the added bonus that the visitors have their shopping lists to hand to make their purchases from the traders.    Layout operators give their time attending shows, with no financial advantage.  

To now ask layout owners, and their operators, to subsidise the organiser of a show is, in my opinion, setting a worrying precedent.   My fear fear is others may follow the Hornby Magazine example.

My modelling friend has politely decline the kind invitation to take his layout to the NEC in April. [Alisdair]
 

 

Maybe it is more of a trade show than a model exhibition.

 

However I can't see what it's got to do with Hornby!

 

Hornby Magazine isn't part of Hornby, it's Key Publishing. Maybe a title change would be apt before we start getting comments blaming Hornby?

 

 

Jason

[ardbealach]

When I look at the number of traders attending the show [at the last count 56] and the number of exhibitors at the last count at 17 [which includes 5 non railway exhibitors] there seems to me to be imbalance somewhere in the numbers.  There is no money to be made out of layouts.  [Alisdair]

[Gilbert]

A bit awkward if there's 3 or 5 of you - a twin at the Premier Inn near NEC is £184 on a flexible rate for 26-28 April...

[woodenhead]

1 minute ago, Gilbert said:

A bit awkward if there's 3 or 5 of you - a twin at the Premier Inn near NEC is £184 on a flexible rate for 26-28 April...

Two in a double and the lucky one gets the chaise....

[Gilbert]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

Two in a double and the lucky one gets the chaise....

PI get funny if you squeeze 3 bigguns into a twin room - and ofter a PI twin is now a double and a couch bed....nice..

[woodenhead]

9 minutes ago, ardbealach said:

When I look at the number of traders attending the show [at the last count 56] and the number of exhibitors at the last count at 17 [which includes 5 non railway exhibitors] there seems to me to be imbalance somewhere in the numbers.  There is no money to be made out of layouts.  [Alisdair]

Don't forget the central exhibit is Making Tracks in it's final multi-armed form.

 

That will take up quite a bit of space.

 

I am not sure if I can be bothered to do the trip to the NEC, I am going to see how I feel at the beginning of April.

 

Plenty more exhibitions in the meantime, couple of BRM, Glasgow and York plus some others that look interesting.

[Gilbert]

I'd have expected an organisation like Key to be able to get group bookings and discounts - PI certainly offer reductions for "business rates"..your average modeller is not going to benefit from that...

 

The more I think about it the more disappointed I am - not that I've been invited of course!

[woodenhead]

16 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

I'd have expected an organisation like Key to be able to get group bookings and discounts - PI certainly offer reductions for "business rates"..your average modeller is not going to benefit from that...

 

The more I think about it the more disappointed I am - not that I've been invited of course!

With the area around the NEC being Exhibition Central, do you think Key have made this as a one off decision not to bother with the hassle of accomodating the exhbitors or the start of a general shift in responsibility onto the exhibitor.

 

Perhaps the difficulty in finding enough suitable accomodation at a good price was one of the reasons for the WMRC not going forward in 2024.   But putting the onus onto the exhibitors would be a bit unfair.

Edited January 22 by woodenhead
spelling

[ardbealach]

And the hotels at B'ham airport / NEC charge a tenner a day just to park your car there overnight on top. [Alisdair] 

[Steamport Southport]

21 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

A bit awkward if there's 3 or 5 of you - a twin at the Premier Inn near NEC is £184 on a flexible rate for 26-28 April...

 

Seems to be about the going rate now. Just paid something similar for sunny Leicester in February!

 

Hotels have been extortionate since Lockdown. Makes going to events expensive and if there are other events that weekend then the price goes up depending on demand. They don't seem to go down though....

 

 

I was mainly considering it for the plastic modelling aspect. Plenty of model railway exhibitions, but not many of those that I know of. But probably not going to bother now.

 

 

PS Thanks for changing the title. 👍

 

 

 

Jason

[Tony Wright]

Though not related to Hornby Magazine's forthcoming exhibition, I should like to point out that at Warners-organised exhibitions, all out-of-pocket expenses are covered for layout owners/demonstrators, including fuel, overnight accommodation and all meals (including in the evenings). 

 

If this is out of place (and I have a close connection with BRM), then will the moderators please remove it?

[AY Mod]

6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

If this is out of place (and I have a close connection with BRM), then will the moderators please remove it?

 

It may have sounded opportunistic if I had said such. 😁

[woodenhead]

1 minute ago, AY Mod said:

 

It may have sounded opportunistic if I had said such. 😁

But it probably needed saying before someone asks or makes a statement of untruth.

 

We are in strange times.

Edited January 22 by woodenhead

[AY Mod]

We may, however, query expense estimates for a coach of 53 passengers to operate an 8' layout.

[pete_mcfarlane]

3 hours ago, ardbealach said:

Naturally he was delighted to receive the invitation to this new exhibition - until he read the small print attached to his invitation - which reads 

‘As with previous shows we will cover travel expenses for van hire, but in a change to our previous events we are asking for layout owners to arrange their own accommodation which we will then contribute towards. The payment offered is £35 per head - the equivalent of £70 per night based on twin occupancy that we usually provide’. 

The problem with that logic is that the organisers may have paid £70 a room when they block booked half of a hotel a year in advance, but Joe Bloggs is booking one or two rooms at a time and will have to pay much more. 

[298]

On 22/01/2024 at 15:16, ardbealach said:

 

To now ask layout owners, and their operators, to subsidise the organiser of a show is, in my opinion, setting a worrying precedent.  My fear is others may follow the Hornby Magazine example.

 

But one basic set of rules isn't going to suit every scenario. Someone with a 5k converted plumbers van or a 50k motorhome might find they get change out of the overnight stay allowance and their fuel paid in full, but would probably struggle to claim any extra maintenance contribution. A significant number of potential exhibitors may live a reasonable commuting distance away and might not even need accomodation, something else to be considered by an organiser if the exhibitor also charges for this if they have been put up in a hotel 20 miles away. 

 

Part of the fun of exhibiting was to take a layout elsewhere, it makes more sense to do that than expect people to travel a long distance to you, and there is the possibility of a reciprocal invite in return. The fact is though it is 2024 and things are a lot different and if a show decides to follow this lead they will have to do so with the knowledge that it can affect the viability of the event.

 

 

Edited January 27 by 298

[Long Line]

On 22/01/2024 at 18:03, AY Mod said:

We may, however, query expense estimates for a coach of 53 passengers to operate an 8' layout.

Don't forget the single en-suite rooms inc Sunday and a little on the side to cover evening meals and a beer🤑

[ELTEL]

On 22/01/2024 at 15:16, ardbealach said:

A modelling friend has a multi award winning layout.  He received a note inviting the layout to the Hornby Magazine exhibition to be held at the NEC in Birmingham at the end of April.  His layout had appeared at a previous Key Publishing model railway exhibition, and it has also had a write up in Hornby Magazine.   

Naturally he was delighted to receive the invitation to this new exhibition - until he read the small print attached to his invitation - which reads 

‘As with previous shows we will cover travel expenses for van hire, but in a change to our previous events we are asking for layout owners to arrange their own accommodation which we will then contribute towards. The payment offered is £35 per head - the equivalent of £70 per night based on twin occupancy that we usually provide’. 

 

It is normal practice for traders to find, and pay for, their own accommodation when they attend shows, and to pay a ‘rental’ to the show organisers for their stall space.  At the end of the weekend the organiser and traders will bank the money they have taken over the weekend.  And no doubt their out of pocket expenses and those overnight hotel bills for their trading weekend will be tax deductible.  

In my opinion, visitors attend shows to see the layouts, not to see an array of traders.  It is the layouts which draw the visitors to shows, and with the added bonus that the visitors have their shopping lists to hand to make their purchases from the traders.    Layout operators give their time attending shows, with no financial advantage.  

To now ask layout owners, and their operators, to subsidise the organiser of a show is, in my opinion, setting a worrying precedent.   My fear fear is others may follow the Hornby Magazine example.

My modelling friend has politely decline the kind invitation to take his layout to the NEC in April. [Alisdair]
 

And to add to that you will not be able claim back the vat on your Hotel bill as Key Publishing will be able to do.

 

Edited January 28 by ELTEL

[Gilbert]

On 22/01/2024 at 18:03, AY Mod said:

We may, however, query expense estimates for a coach of 53 passengers to operate an 8' layout.

You're no fun any more....

[PaulRhB]

Quite simple as the friend in the first post did, politely decline. Another commercial show tried it and we did the same. Support shows that cover costs instead :) 

[PMP]

2 hours ago, ELTEL said:

And to add to that you will not be able claim back the vat on your Hotel bill as Key Publishing will be able to do.

 

As a non trade exhibitor we can’t claim back VAT for our van hire, fuel or our evening meal and entertainment at a ‘normal show’. So if an exhibitor is prepared to pay some of their accommodation costs I don’t see what the point you’re making is.

[PMP]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Quite simple as the friend in the first post did, politely decline. Another commercial show tried it and we did the same. Support shows that cover costs instead :) 

Absolutely. 
 

There is another consideration that can be made. If ‘we’ want a Warley show at the NEC, perhaps it might be an option to consider paying forward something to assist an organisation putting on the show. I mention this regardless of the specific company in this instance. If a viable consortium of people came up with a similar proposal I’d have the same opinion.

 

I think Warley NEC show was an excellent showcase for the hobby, and yes we in the past normally ‘expected’ full accommodation cost to be paid. But in this instance fuel and van hire are being covered, and part of the accommodation. I’ve been asked to take a layout, and for me that means minimum two operators, including myself. So I am asking friends if they would consider operating on either day. That means it’s only me forking out for HOTAC, and I’ll be Billy no mates Fri/Sat evenings. 
 

I’m considering exhibiting, but the relatively short lead time means local HOTAC is pretty expensive, and it’s a difficult call for me at the moment. Had there been extra lead time with reduced costs, the choice would likely be much easier. I wouldn’t want to see this style become the norm, but if this were a trial and subsequent years covered typical HOTAC, I’m wondering if it’s worth paying forward this time, so to speak to give the hobby that NEC platform again. Obviously the 8’ plank with the omnibus load of 53 operators won’t appreciate the extra costs, but there may be a new business model required for an NEC event if we really want one.

[PaulRhB]

9 minutes ago, PMP said:

There is another consideration that can be made. If ‘we’ want a Warley show at the NEC, perhaps it might be an option to consider paying forward something to assist an organisation putting on the show.

Fair points but Warley didn’t cease because the exhibitor costs were too high, it was mainly people to run it, they had a sensible policy on operators and happily exceeded the max 6 limit on larger layouts. 
I went probably a third of the time as exhibitor and two thirds as a punter and despite the minority moans I think we’d have stumped up more on the entrance fee because we considered it decent value. 

I think the majority of exhibitors already put in quite a lot extra cash to exhibit, light rigs, storage boxes, spare controllers, not charging wear on personal vehicles and using them over hire vans etc so while I’m happy to help out clubs and charity lead shows by reducing the costs of accommodation and fuel to the smallest I can I’m not subsidising commercial shows because they are making money while I’m losing it. It’s hard work if you exhibit without taking the p and are expected to put on a show for around 16 hours, it’s fun presently because you get the weekend costs covered, except dinner, but I’m not interested in paying to do it while they walk away with a profit.
That’s my personal view and I’ve spent a lot on accommodation to volunteer and work even harder on preserved lines and spend to do Freemo Modular weekends. I’d rather spend money for those things than just to have a show at the NEC when there are loads of other good shows out there. 
 

On 22/01/2024 at 15:16, ardbealach said:

The payment offered is £35 per head - the equivalent of £70 per night based on twin occupancy that we usually provide’. 

They are offering £35 per head, per night it seems, so assuming a twin room, I’ve found non refundable cheapest option 16 miles away at £99 but that rises to £125 if refundable up to a month in advance so just covered by the £140 for two for two nights. To get fully refundable starts costing you money as fully refundable is £150. 

But that’s assuming people booking up don’t raise those prices after you accept and get confirmation. 
 

It’s possible to cover it but surely block booking it is cheaper still and you’d probably be sensible to qualify acceptance with “assuming prices are still under £140 for two nights per room”