Kit-built Coaches

[Stuart G]

Can anyone recommend a 'kit builder' who could construct coach kits for me? I'm not very good at the finishing stage and would prefer a professional finish. I would supply the kits, if required.

Also, does anyone know where I might be able to source Caledonian Railway & Midland Railway (NOT L.M.S.!!!) 00 gauge coaches?

[Steamport Southport]

I can't help with the first bit.

 

But Caley Coaches for CR,

 

https://caley.com/index.php

 

For MR try Wizard, Slaters, PECO/Ratio (described as LMS but are MR), Stevenson/Squires, there may be others.

 

Wizard MR Coaches

 

https://slatersplastikard.com/carriages/4mmCarriages.php

 

https://peco-uk.com/collections/rolling-stock/parkside+4mm-oo?view=48&layout=grid&sort_by=price-descending

 

Stevenson available from Squires, they do sell on eBay and the website is here

 

http://www.squirestools.com/home.htm

 

but here's the list.

 

http://www.squirestools.com/files/SC Retail Price List.pdf

 

 

 

Jason

Edited February 5 by Steamport Southport

[Jol Wilkinson]

You could perhaps break this down into two parts, someone to build the kits and, if you want a particularly good paint job, one of the top line professional painters such as Ian Rathbone or Geoff Haynes. If it is the "finishing stage" that you are least confident about, then you could do the building yourself. Like Steamport Southport, I don't know of any professional builders (but do know a lot of amateurs who get great results).

 

The moulded plastic kits should be easiest  to build (Peco and Slaters). The mainly etched kits (Caley, Wizard) more complex but not actually difficult. The Stephenson kits have a more diverse set of components that may take more time/experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Johnster]

I'd certainly suggest having a go yourself alongside commissioning builds and paint jobs.  Start off with Ratio-Parkside coaches, which will not provide you with Caley stock but will with Midland clerestory gangwayed and suburban non-gangwayed, and give you the 'feel' for building kits.  They are not difficult, but do require care and patience for the best results.  I use LEGO bricks to ensure right angles and good corners when building the bodyshells.  They are also good for practice with painting and transfers. 

 

The next stage is etched brass, which sounds terrifying but isn't really.  The kits have assemblies which are folded into structurally rigid shapes along etched fold lines, and are mostly box-shaped.  They are best soldered but glue can be used.  The brass sheet is usually quite thin, in order to make it easy to work, and it is important to hold the pieces firmly square to each other when soldering or glueing; some assemblies will be quite fragile until they are completed.  Important to prime the finished kit before painting.  I've built several successfully, and I'm not a particularly skilled modeller.  They do take a bit of time, though; I can manage a Ratio coach in about three evenings, but Comets take more like two months.  Trick is to eat the elephant in small, manageable, bites and not try to do it in one sitting.

[Nile]

There are a few builders advertising in the Railway Modeller classified adverts section.

[brossard]

In my experience, the coach structure is usually pretty straightforward whether the material is plastic or brass.  It is getting them finished to a good standard where the trouble starts.  I've been there and done that, and no I'm not putting my hand up.

 

 

 

[Torper]

Might it be worthwhile asking Jim at Caley Coaches if he knows of anyone who'll build one (or more) of his kits for you?

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, brossard said:

In my experience, the coach structure is usually pretty straightforward whether the material is plastic or brass.  It is getting them finished to a good standard where the trouble starts.  I've been there and done that, and no I'm not putting my hand up.

 

 

 

 

Luckily for me I model 1948-58, so a lot of my kit coaches can be plain unlined crimson livery and spray-painted; happy to leave anything more complex to RTR products!  A disastrous teenage attempt to fully line out Ratio Dean 4-wheelers put me off any desire to repeat the experience; my current Dean quadrupeds are the correct prototype livery (unmitigated and slightly verigated dark brown filth to the extent that you can't even see, far less read, the running numbers), for Glyncorrwg Miners' stock...

Edited February 6 by The Johnster

[Mallard60022]

I used to part build Comet Coaches to a soldered finish standard, often with Hinges (extra cost) and some details, but not with Water Pipes or glazing and interiors and rarely painted, unless it was plain Maroon (extra charge). It was for people that could then paint or afford to get them painted. I sometimes fitted sprung Buffers if the Client requested that as an extra. Typically, something like a Gresley CK would then cost about £200 without the extras. The prices varied according to a list and related to complexity.

This was over 10 years ago! Prices have increased. At that time a fully finished Coach  from a recommended builder, in all its glory and RTR was around £600 and often more. 

It's not an inexpensive job getting a Coach built I'm sorry to say. 

Kits are still only about £50 I think?

It would be almost less expensive to ask someone to show you how to solder them up at some workshop sessions!

I no longer build KIts for anyone. Sorry.

Phil   

[Siberian Snooper]

Possibly a case of signing up for a Missenden Abbey course or two, in the 4mm loco building course. Coach building has been known to take place.

 

 

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Siberian Snooper said:

Possibly a case of signing up for a Missenden Abbey course or two, in the 4mm loco building course. Coach building has been known to take place.

I'd forgotten those. Are they 'led' by 'Tutors'?

Phil Atkinson's Courses were brilliant. I can't believe they were almost 15+ years ago now.

I wonder if someone like the organisers of Warley could try something like this? It means their organisation skills are available BUT not with the huge effort required for the exhibition.

Before long, the current persons that have both building and leading skills, will be 'no more'.

Actually I've never seen a Course with Coach Building as a main lead even when Phil was doing his. Loco's (Tony Wright's excellent and amusing sessions) and Painting/Weathering yes. 

I was fortunate to have the late Geoff Brewin teach me to part build Coaches. I miss his damn fine skills and company.

Perhaps anyone reading this that considers Coach Building as important, could maybe do some asking around. Anyone with Warley contacts?

All the best.

Phil

[Siberian Snooper]

Mr Duck,

 

The weekend sessions have tutors, CF MRC and T-B-G of this parish are  two of them. Just remembered, Queens Square.

 

Edited February 7 by Siberian Snooper
add Queens Square.

[Jol Wilkinson]

One way to get some tuition/mentoring is to join a local club, EMGS or S4 Society Area Group. 

 

As EMGS or P4 modellers tend to build models rather than buy RTR, there will be group members who have experience of kit building and finishing. My local S4 Group has several members who model in 00 and 7mm as well as P4. We have members whose skills include building kits and track, resin casting, electric wizardry, etc. and are more than willing to share their experience and knowledge. Most groups will welcome people who aren't Society members, although there may be a little gentle persuasion to join.

 

Local clubs should be able to provide the same sort of support although some I have encountered increasingly prefer to follow the RTR/RTP route strongly and consider kit building as witchcraft. 

[Torper]

Stuart is in Shetland, Jol - probably his nearest model railway club is in Bergen!

 

So Stuart,  in the absence of any local help I'd buy myself a Caley Coaches 57' corridor coach kit at £55 and set about assembling it.  From what you say I assume that your soldering is OK - I certainly wouldn't recommend glueing an etched brass kit together.  I'm not sure what you mean by the "finishing stage" but if you're capable of putting the coach body and major parts together you shouldn't have too much trouble with the detail, though do leave the handrails and door handles off until after paintng and lining.  Once you've got the coach built to your satisfaction, either then find someone to paint it - probably easier than getting someone to build it - or else get yourself an airbrush and give it a go yourself.  If it doesn't work out first time, strip the paint off -  plenty of methods of doing that have been posted on this board - and try again.  It's what I did.  Actually, start with a rattle can of etch primer - in the absence of a local supplier Halfords do mail order.  I think you can get transfers for C.R. lining.

 

One other thing; if you're modelling the Caledonian, have you considered joining the Caledonian Railway Association (www.crassoc.org.uk)?  They produce an excellent magazine and have a very helpful forum which includes a modelling section.

[Siberian Snooper]

Soldered construction can be deconstructed, by using a hot air paint striping gun, or possibly a hair dryer, I don't have enough hair to warrant one, so I can't give a definite answer. The only warning is don't get the brass red hot.

 

 

[brossard]

4 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

Soldered construction can be deconstructed, by using a hot air paint striping gun, or possibly a hair dryer, I don't have enough hair to warrant one, so I can't give a definite answer. The only warning is don't get the brass red hot.

 

 

 

A point of clarification, I assume you mean 145C solder.  Will this method work on 188C solder?

 

I hope your hair dryer doesn't have the heat to melt paint and/or solder.   I shudder to think what that would do to ones hair.

 

John

[melmerby]

19 minutes ago, brossard said:

 

A point of clarification, I assume you mean 145C solder.  Will this method work on 188C solder?

 

I hope your hair dryer doesn't have the heat to melt paint and/or solder.   I shudder to think what that would do to ones hair.

 

John

I modern hot air gun can be used to solder copper pipework, so should be well capable of unsoldering a brass kit.

(IIRC mine goes up to about 600 degrees celsius, it's adjustable)

 

If you use the low melt 88 degree solder used for white metal kits this can be undone with boiling water, although I don't know if it is suitable for brass kits.

Edited February 8 by melmerby

[Dave John]

For the Caledonian it's Caley coaches or some body only etches from Worsley works.

 

I must admit painting and lining is my modelling weakness so I developed a transfer technique for the panels. 

 

This and the previous 7 blogs chart my attempt at a rake of Grampian corridor stock. Passable, but I wouldn't claim to be good enough to build for others. 

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

9 hours ago, brossard said:

 

A point of clarification, I assume you mean 145C solder.  Will this method work on 188C solder?

 

I hope your hair dryer doesn't have the heat to melt paint and/or solder.   I shudder to think what that would do to ones hair.

 

John

 

Yes it will undo 188C solder. I don't know how hot a hair dryer gets, as I don't need one.

 

 

[Torper]

10 hours ago, Dave John said:

This and the previous 7 blogs chart my attempt at a rake of Grampian corridor stock. Passable, but I wouldn't claim to be good enough to build for others.

 

I shall make a point of reading that blog when I have time.  My efforts at one of Jim's Grampian coaches resulted in a magnificent looking vehicle that unfortunately won't go round cven mild bends because the 6-wheel bogies (or at least their wheels) foul the solebar.  I'll be interested to read if you encountered that problem and, if so, how you resolved it.

 

 

Edited February 9 by Torper

[Dave John]

Hi Torper,

 

I had to remove a bit of the lower part of the solebar. Some pics in part 2. 

[Torper]

OK, I shall get tow work with a file.  I was worried when I last worked on these coaches that too much solebar would have to be taken off, but having seen yours, hopefully not.  There's some clever stuff in that blog of yours, by the way!

[Torper]

Hah, no work was in fact necessary!  The coach used to derail on a curve just prior to entering the station. Recently I carried out some adjustments to the layout leading up to the station and that included slackening the troublesome curve. I tried the coach yesterday before starting work on it and lo and behold it ran smoothly both into and out of the station back to the fiddle yard.  It's no good in sidings of course, but it won't be going to them all is well.

 

Incidentally, it would be nice to hear from Stuart who started this thread as to whether he's come to any decision.  I hate it when someone starts a thread, gets some advice, and then we never hear from him again.  Of course it may be that Stuart just needs a bit more time to think things over.