Accommodation for layout exhibitors

[Chris M]

I don't know where the £35 came from but that would equate to £70 per night for a twin room which is usually within Premier Inn and Travelodge prices if you book early. Just checking prices for my next exhibition (where I don't need a hotel) Travelodge would be £81 for two people in one room for two nights excluding breakfast but Travelodge would be £130 for the exhibition after that. Overall £35 per person per night could well be about right but might be a bit under if you include a full breakfast. If you do a lot of exhibitions it will be swings and roundabouts. If I was taking a layout with just one other operator I would probably go for a room each and pay the extra. I reckon that would cost about the same or maybe a little bit less than going for two single rooms via the exhibition manager.

[Colin_McLeod]

45 minutes ago, Chris M said:

I don't know where the £35 came from...

 

From the second post

 

20 hours ago, CloggyDog said:

... our layout lead has found us a Premier Inn in the area for just under the allowance (£35 per bed night - 4 operators for 2 nights means our allowance is £280 total). 

 

 

[irishmail]

8 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

What kind of room can you get for only £35??

Nothing for that sort of money here lol,  you looking at over €100.00 for Dublin for a start, thats one of the reasons why I gave up exhibiting at shows was the cost of accomodation. 

Big organisations such as Key, Warners etc maybe can bear the cost of accomodation for exhibitors, but obviously smaller clubs that run shows may not which is why 'most' run exhibitions to raise funds for the club as well as promoting the hobby.

[Chris M]

A problem for exhibition managers is that exhibitors have very variable wants and needs. This year we are going to one exhibition where the layout operators are happily paying the cost of van hire ourselves. We decided we wanted to go to that exhibition and we also wanted to support the organisation putting on the show so why not? Conversely I have turned down an invitation to a commercially run show  this year simply because they don't provide a lunch or even a cup of tea to exhibitors. I have been to this show before and ramped up my expenses to cover tea and lunch but this time I couldn't be bothered - its their loss.   This sort of illustrates that the way a show looks after its exhibitors is likely to have an affect on the quality of the show.

 

An exhibition not arranging accommodation should be expected to put some layout exhibitors off attending.  On the other hand it would be preferred by me. Maybe, as suggested above, exhibition managers should offer the two options - arranged accommodation or an accommodation allowance. Could be best of both worlds for all concerned. 

[Chris M]

1 minute ago, irishmail said:

Nothing for that sort of money here lol,  you looking at over €100.00 for Dublin for a start, thats one of the reasons why I gave up exhibiting at shows was the cost of accomodation. 

Big organisations such as Key, Warners etc maybe can bear the cost of accomodation for exhibitors, but obviously smaller clubs that run shows may not which is why 'most' run exhibitions to raise funds for the club as well as promoting the hobby.

I would expect that Key and Warners need to make a profit on every show because they are businesses and profit is what keeps a business going in the long term. A club can afford to just scrape an excess of income over expenditure and be happy whereas a business must get a reasonable return on any investment. Businesses do have professional people who are organising exhibitions all the time which will help them put on a show that is highly cost effective.

[long island jack]

At the end of last year, i did an exhibition, where the accommodation was 6-7 miles from the exhibition and no pubs near!!, i ask if i could book my own hotel a bit nearer the exhibition and nearer the pubs, they gave me the room price of there hotel and i footed the difference, a win win all round, maybe a good option to offer both.

[Jol Wilkinson]

48 minutes ago, Chris M said:

I would expect that Key and Warners need to make a profit on every show because they are businesses and profit is what keeps a business going in the long term. A club can afford to just scrape an excess of income over expenditure and be happy whereas a business must get a reasonable return on any investment. Businesses do have professional people who are organising exhibitions all the time which will help them put on a show that is highly cost effective.

 

In the same way shouldn't exhibitors expect reasonable out of pocket expenses to be reimbursed, rather than subsidise the profits of commercial businesses?

 

Exhibitors freely give up time to transport and exhibit a layout. They also put themselves and their models at some risk. More than once I have driven back over 200 miles from a show after a weekend exhibiting and a couple of hours packing up, to unload a SWB Transit in the dark so I could return it early on Monday morning. I received reimbursement of van hire and fuel cost, while the operating team were provided with overnight accommodation. Apart from tea/coffee and lunch (sometimes a sandwich and packet of crisps) all other costs were down to us including operators' fuel. I kept costs to a minimum where possible, hiring the smallest van that would take the layout and three of us travelling in it.

 

 

 

 

You are suggesting that we should respect the need for commercially run exhibitions to make a profit from their business. Nothing wrong with that but should not those businesses also respect their "suppliers" by covering their reasonable out of pocket expenses as has been the norm?

[Roger Sunderland]

From a personal point of view I think this is a great idea. I’m a very poor sleeper at best and hated having to share rooms, leaving me exhausted by the end of a 2 day show. But I didn’t have an issue with making a contribution to our exhibition outings. This idea at least allows flexibility to suit people’s preferences .

[Jol Wilkinson]

36 minutes ago, Roger Sunderland said:

From a personal point of view I think this is a great idea. I’m a very poor sleeper at best and hated having to share rooms, leaving me exhausted by the end of a 2 day show. But I didn’t have an issue with making a contribution to our exhibition outings. This idea at least allows flexibility to suit people’s preferences .

Like you I have difficulty sleeping in a shared room. I have found that show organisers will provide a single room if you offer to pay.

[LNERandBR]

I think the key difference between Model World Live and other exhibitions is it's not just model railways. Do the Airfix and other  exhibitors expect accommodation to be paid for? I have a feeling not.

 

I think it's therefore the best compromise that the organisers could come up with. Trying to keep everyone as happy as they can. They want one rule for all rather then one set of rules for railways and another for Airfix just because the different hobbies expect different things when it comes to expenses, etc.

 

I think if people want to pay more to get single rooms or in a more expensive hotel then that's fine if it is arranged with the Exhibition Manager. Would certainly remove issues when you turn up at a hotel expecting two twin rooms and find the hotel has left them as doubles!

[arran]

6 hours ago, Chris M said:

I would expect that Key and Warners need to make a profit on every show because they are businesses and profit is what keeps a business going in the long term. A club can afford to just scrape an excess of income over expenditure and be happy whereas a business must get a reasonable return on any investment. Businesses do have professional people who are organising exhibitions all the time which will help them put on a show that is highly cost effective.

That's a nice thought That a club will just scrape by .

 

Most clubs do shows to Yes promote the hobby and to put some cash in the bank for a rainy day ,

And we have had more than a few rainy days this last few years, if you run a show you do need a buffer in case the public dont show up in the numbers expected .

 

a healthy show is a good profitable one 

 

Regards Arran

[sjp23480]

Conferences I have attended (non railway related) usually offer a preferred room rate negotiated with a local chain, but you have to book and pay yourself and then recover the expenses later.  You don't have to stay in that hotel, but can chose an alternative and the organisers will reimburse your expenses at a similar (usually slightly lower) rate.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Out of pocket expenses I would expect to be covered, but meals?, do exhibitors not eat at weekends?

 

Mike.

[Phil Parker]

4 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Out of pocket expenses I would expect to be covered, but meals?, do exhibitors not eat at weekends?

 

Mike.

 

They do, but not normally at exhibition venue prices. Besides, it's a bit of a thank you for many ours on their feet entertaining the public, without which, there wouldn't be a show.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Just now, Phil Parker said:

 

They do, but not normally at exhibition venue prices. Besides, it's a bit of a thank you for many ours on their feet entertaining the public, without which, there wouldn't be a show.

 

Yes, but if they were going as punters they would have to suck it up or make alternative arrangements, no different than being an exhibitor?

 

Mike.

[stan williams]

Obviously  you have never been a exhibitor at a decent model railway exhibition.

In April and November, the proof will be in the pudding, in so much of the quality of the layouts.

I thought last weekend at Doncaster, there where to many similar layouts and not always top quality.

I know its said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder or in our case Quality !

[Enterprisingwestern]

35 minutes ago, stan williams said:

Obviously  you have never been a exhibitor at a decent model railway exhibition.

In April and November, the proof will be in the pudding, in so much of the quality of the layouts.

I thought last weekend at Doncaster, there where to many similar layouts and not always top quality.

I know its said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder or in our case Quality !

 

No, obviously not, York, Wigan, Expo North and South, Derby amongst others, all less than decent, not to mention the innumerable ones as a traders assistant where you have to get your own hand in your own pocket, so no experience.

 

Mike.

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Yes, but if they were going as punters they would have to suck it up or make alternative arrangements, no different than being an exhibitor?

 

Mike.

 

Punters don't have to get up at silly o'clock, drive to the show and spend best part of a couple of hours setting up, before working for 8 hours, then reversing the process. 

 

So it's a thank you. If you don't think they deserve a little thanks, that's your opinion. 

[black and decker boy]

It’s a flat no from us. 
 

Especially for a commercial show set up to make commercial profit.

 

yes it’s our hobby so I don’t seek or ever make a profit from exhibiting. However, as our hobby is used by organisers to make a profit, I shouldn’t be out of pocket. £35pppn really doesn’t provide much choice for a comfortable nights sleep in a city.

 

No mention of how Key model World will reimburse breakfast, lunches & mileage / fuel.

[Enterprisingwestern]

10 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Punters don't have to get up at silly o'clock, drive to the show and spend best part of a couple of hours setting up, before working for 8 hours, then reversing the process. 

 

So it's a thank you. If you don't think they deserve a little thanks, that's your opinion. 

 

 Therefore, if it's such an unenjoyable chore, why do it?

 

Mike.

BTW. Where did I say they didn't deserve a little thanks?

[Jol Wilkinson]

3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

 Therefore, if it's such an unenjoyable chore, why do it?

 

Mike.

BTW. Where did I say they didn't deserve a little thanks?

Mike,

 

those that exhibit models probably do so for a number of reasons. Amongst those are probably and significantly;

 

• They like showing off what they have made.
• They enjoy the camaraderie of those viewers/fellow modelers that they interact with. 

 

The time and effort that goes into exhibiting a layout is perhaps not always appreciated, especially a larger one. However there are limits, perhaps not always financial, which some are not willing to accept. Although I now longer exhibit my layout, I would draw the line at taking it to an exhibition where I was required to significantly subsidise a business putting on a show for profit, beyond the normally accepted minor incidental costs, evening meals and drinks. 

 

Jol

Edited February 13 by Jol Wilkinson
Amended text

[TEAMYAKIMA]

This is a very interesting thread.

 

Firstly, let me say that I was happy to accept Key Publishing's invitation to exhibit in April. Let me also say that an EM of a 'local show' has told me that he is seriously considering using the same policy next year.

 

For me and my team, it's all about being near good pubs. We don't want to be allocated an hotel in an industrial estate far from the madding crowd and this new policy allows us to choose where we stay.

 

Having said that, I totally agree that this only really works if you have an even number of operators i.e. 2, 4 or 6 - there is a problem if you need 1, 3, 5 or 7 operators

[PaulRhB]

I’ve said in the original thread I have reservations about this because of the financial risk transferring to the layout owner. 
 

Ok you can get decent twin rooms for £70 a night in advance but if I take out my 34x11 layout it needs 6-8 operators. So taking the minimum of 6 that’s £420 up front for Friday and Saturday nights as it takes 2-3 hours to set up starting at 6-7 in the morning of a show isn’t really on. Like others have said you’re on your feet for 4-6 hours concentrating hard, not sitting on a chair chatting to punters. 
 

Those rooms are at best refundable up to a month ahead to keep within budget. So what happens if you’re ill and can’t go, you lose all that money, ok the club has to take it on but it can often be reallocated or refunded from a block booking up to 24hrs for the day, that’s what we got for large numbers booked. So the risk is less usually for the club. 
 

Getting a layout prepped for a show, testing and cleaning everything, organising operators and vehicles is enough stress without hotel booking on top. I’ve built my later layouts to go into cars because it eliminates the hassle of vans and damage waivers. Chipped windscreen, tree branches, punctures all risks of losing that. It limits the size of boards compared to previous layouts but far less stress. 
 

So I pay my £420 for one show then get three invites and have to stump up another £1260 in advance. I know people who do 15-20 odd shows a year with just four operators, that’s £4,200 to £5600 up front! 
 

No thanks, I belong to two groups who run shows and have 30-80 members. The show is funded from the coffers established by those spreading the risk further and it works leaving us a surplus to fund group layouts that reduce the ‘hired in’ layouts plus have a backup for shows. That system works and as others have said individual rooms have long been an option if you pay the extra. 
I’ve never walked away from a weekend ‘up on the deal’, I claim the actual fuel and only claim van hire if I can’t get enough larger cars. We don’t put in wear and tear and we pay for the evening meals for three days, yes usually Sunday as well as we are heading home at 6-7 with a 2-3 hour drive on many weekends. 
I’ve supported charity shows, I’m travelling 108 miles in two weeks to do another for free, and local club shows for no expenses at all. But sorry if I’m travelling with the big layouts for larger established or commercial shows we know make a decent profit, like the larger club I belong to they can afford it and block booking isn’t that hard if you’ve got the jobs spread well between members or staff. 
 

So no I’m not really interested in paying £500 up front let alone thousands so I’ll go as a punter instead. Exhibiting is tiring and fun, it doesn’t need to be a financial stress as well. 

[5944]

I can certainly see the advantages in being able to book your own accommodation, but likewise I wouldn't be keen on the personal financial outlay. Smaller clubs can book up a few rooms in a local hotel or B&B, but trying to arrange several hundred rooms for one of the big shows must be a nightmare for the organisers. 

 

My club took one of our layouts to a certain exhibition on top of a hill in North London a few years ago. It took me less time to get back home in Bedfordshire, via a 10 minute walk to the station, two trains, then another 15 minute walk, than it did for the other operators to get to their hotel in North East London! Road works, road closures, traffic jams and football traffic meant it took them about 90 minutes to get to the hotel 8 miles away. I was indoors in 75 minutes, 45 miles away.

 

There's plenty of other accommodation locally, but whether it's available in the quantity required for a reasonable price for the organiser is another matter. It'll also be easier for them to block book one or two hotels than try and book a few rooms in several hotels.

[arran]

12 hours ago, 5944 said:

I can certainly see the advantages in being able to book your own accommodation, but likewise I wouldn't be keen on the personal financial outlay. Smaller clubs can book up a few rooms in a local hotel or B&B, but trying to arrange several hundred rooms for one of the big shows must be a nightmare for the organisers. 

 

My club took one of our layouts to a certain exhibition on top of a hill in North London a few years ago. It took me less time to get back home in Bedfordshire, via a 10 minute walk to the station, two trains, then another 15 minute walk, than it did for the other operators to get to their hotel in North East London! Road works, road closures, traffic jams and football traffic meant it took them about 90 minutes to get to the hotel 8 miles away. I was indoors in 75 minutes, 45 miles away.

 

There's plenty of other accommodation locally, but whether it's available in the quantity required for a reasonable price for the organiser is another matter. It'll also be easier for them to block book one or two hotels than try and book a few rooms in several hotels.

Paying up front for a room is no different to paying for the van or the fuel . 
 

if that’s the deal that’s offered then take it or leave it . 
I can understand not wanting to be bothered with booking all the rooms and trying to keep the small amount of prima donnas happy .  
 

Regards  Arran