Accommodation for layout exhibitors

[Chris M]

In amongst all the various chats there was a revelation that Model World Live would give layout exhibitors from afar an allowance for accommodation rather than book it for them.
At first was a bit surprised and thought it was a bit poor. Having thought about it I reckon it’s the way to go for all exhibitions. 
Going back into the early history of exhibitions club members would provide their spare rooms for visiting layout owners. Things then became more sophisticated and clubs started to book hotel rooms for visiting exhibitors. This was back in the 1970s well before it was possible to view and book accommodation on line.  Now it is of course very easy to book accommodation anywhere in the world online. 
Nowadays the idea of having the host club book rooms looks rather old fashioned. We all have different aspirations for our hotel quality and what accommodation we need. For instance I am very happy to pay extra for my friend and I to have a single room each rather than share a twin. On other occasions our wives might decide to come with us so we need two doubles. Sometimes, if I am say 70-80 miles from home I might decide to drive home rather than spend the weekend away.  What’s worse is that a fair few exhibitors change their minds as to what they want to do.
So, on reflection I think giving exhibitors a basic allowance and letting them fend for themselves is a good thing and I fully support such a change. It is also one less job for the organising club. It is a job that can become quite a challenge when there are lots of last minute changes. It may mean that layout exhibitors end up being a few pounds out of pocket based on their own choice but then going taking a layout to an exhibition always costs the owner a few bob anyway.

The only thing I would miss is all the exhibitors being together over breakfast.

 

just wondering what others think.

[CloggyDog]

Former exhibition manager here and agree that booking accomodation was always something of a chore - finding good cheap rooms, certainly in the days before Trivago/Bookingdotcom/etc, relied on local knowledge (but how many of us stay in hotels in our own towns?). 

 

Doing it an allowance basis means less work for the ExMan and gives layout owner/operators more of a choice - I've certainly stayed in some... interesting accommodation as an exhibitor, some I'd rather not stay at again! 

 

I'm part of a layout crew for Model World Live, our layout lead has found us a Premier Inn in the area for just under the allowance (£35 per bed night - 4 operators for 2 nights means our allowance is £280 total). 

 

[298]

Unfortunately leaving it to individuals would increase costs because the organiser wouldn't get a discount on their regular block booking or use their local knowledge to choose the best places to stay. It'd also be at the mercy of mis-interpreted expenses instructions should there be any last minute changes or unforeseen costs.

 

When it was just me and Mrs298 exhibiting a layout we had some nice weekends away, but with a family now I really don't like staying away and will only do so for special events- I'll also be having to travel more for work now and honestly hate the idea. I also sometimes feel guilty about claiming lots of expenses and often try not to- what if someone fed back that it was "Foreign rubbish" (see other thread) or had a derailment or some other unforseen issue? 

[Chris M]

Last time I tried to book a number of rooms the price went up because the hotel was so busy. It was only busy because I was about to book a lot of rooms. I thought a block booking would make it cheaper rather than more expensive. Haven’t used that hotel again.

[andyman7]

12 hours ago, 298 said:

Unfortunately leaving it to individuals would increase costs because the organiser wouldn't get a discount on their regular block booking or use their local knowledge to choose the best places to stay. It'd also be at the mercy of mis-interpreted expenses instructions should there be any last minute changes or unforeseen costs.

 

When it was just me and Mrs298 exhibiting a layout we had some nice weekends away, but with a family now I really don't like staying away and will only do so for special events- I'll also be having to travel more for work now and honestly hate the idea. I also sometimes feel guilty about claiming lots of expenses and often try not to- what if someone fed back that it was "Foreign rubbish" (see other thread) or had a derailment or some other unforseen issue? 

In the old days this was true, but nowadays modern 'yield managed' bookings will give the best prices by booking a room far in advance. If you try and book a group of rooms...

12 hours ago, Chris M said:

Last time I tried to book a number of rooms the price went up because the hotel was so busy. It was only busy because I was about to book a lot of rooms. I thought a block booking would make it cheaper rather than more expensive. Haven’t used that hotel again.

...the algorithms in the pricing structure will put the prices up rather than give you an 'good deal'.
 

Edited February 11 by andyman7
Spelling

[AY Mod]

See https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/183997-hornby-magazine-event-at-the-nec-april-2024/

 

 

From a number of conversations I've had it's certainly not a universally popular approach, especially considering what the allowance does, or doesn't, get you.

[Long Line]

This is a great mindset I'm going to introduce immediately..

 

So when they turn up at the pub for footy this afternoon..we can give them a dirty glass..they can clean and dry it, serve themselves then tidy the carpets and seats where they want to sit and put any firewood they've brought with them on the fire after they light it. Ill keep all the money, do nowt and a get some wagons built.

 

If you don't have the required pump monies or want to do the work fine.. just don't get involved. But as long as you retain the right to the profits of such endeavours be they kudos or cash then you should accept the expenditure, work and responsibility it entails.

 

Yes the support packages supplied to model railway exhibitors, stewards and the like may require some tweaking to see them remain fiscally sustainable. But let's try and use a little more whit shall we and come up with a more evolutionary than revolutionary solution.

 

One thing is for certain, time will see this one out. Give it 3 years and we'll see if groups who adopt this mindset exist anymore.

 

🙈🙉🙊

 

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, Chris M said:

Last time I tried to book a number of rooms the price went up because the hotel was so busy. It was only busy because I was about to book a lot of rooms. I thought a block booking would make it cheaper rather than more expensive. Haven’t used that hotel again.

 

True. The price does not always go down when rooms are bulk booked.

I used to be involved with snooker & players were encouraged to book through the organisation, which had blocked booked rooms. They discovered that it was cheaper to book their own rooms directly.

[Ryde-on-time]

The problem for me is that if I have to book my own accommodation that it likely to mean a financial commitment many months before the exhibition 

 

Looking at the £35 pppn being quoted, I had a look at hotels that weekend and it would mean taking the lowest ‘payment in advance’ and ‘limited changes’ tariff. I don’t think l’d be popular tying up funds at my risk for a model railway show, especially a commercial one

 

I know others (such as the group who exhibit Dentdale & Brinklow’ ) who are exhibiting at least once a month and it would be a massive financial commitment for them which I simply can’t see them wanting to do, which would have a knock on affect on exhibitions

[arran]

https://booking.profitroom.com/en/daysinncorleynec/pricelist/rooms/?check-in=2024-04-26&check-out=2024-04-28&currency=GBP&r1_adults=2&utm_source=google&utm_medium=GHA_paid

 

i can understand both sides in this , one good thing in favor of it is you might get a shower and Breakfast when you want one  Because the whole place is not on the same time scale .

 

And most places i think take the money on arrival 

 

Regard's Arran

[cessna152towser]

Good suggestion, but I can also see there are pros and cons.  In the past we have block booked local hotel rooms for our exhibitors.  This year we are reviving our formerly annual show for the first time since 2019.  Our Exhibition Manager will have an opportunity to sound out guest exhibitors as to which method they might prefer.

[CloggyDog]

Compare the situation with plastic modelling (IPMS) type shows, such as the 'Warley-equivalent' Scale Model World and locally-organised shows* where clubs/groups who want to display their models don't get any travel expenses or accommodation. They'd likely get some free entry places, plus more reduced rate entry tickets if required, but that's it. And if they want a larger than standard display, they'd be expected to contribute toward that too. 

 

So essentially, they provide their displays out of altruism or just to bask in the glory of displaying their models. 

 

I think we railway modellers have it very cushy indeed in comparison. Be interesting too see how Key's MWL are treating the plastic modelling groups 🤔

 

*a good friend has been involved in the organisation of SMW and his local IPMS branch show. 

[Ryde-on-time]

20 minutes ago, CloggyDog said:

Compare the situation with plastic modelling (IPMS) type shows, such as the 'Warley-equivalent' Scale Model World and locally-organised shows* where clubs/groups who want to display their models don't get any travel expenses or accommodation. They'd likely get some free entry places, plus more reduced rate entry tickets if required, but that's it. And if they want a larger than standard display, they'd be expected to contribute toward that too. 

 

So essentially, they provide their displays out of altruism or just to bask in the glory of displaying their models. 

 

I think we railway modellers have it very cushy indeed in comparison. Be interesting too see how Key's MWL are treating the plastic modelling groups 🤔

 

*a good friend has been involved in the organisation of SMW and his local IPMS branch show. 

Perhaps not a fair comparison. Putting a few models on display and then spending the show looking around and chatting with friends is a little different to having to spend the afternoon of the day before loading up, travelling and then all evening setting up and testing, then almost the whole weekend behind the layout operating. Finally a late night back after packing up

 

I go to model railway shows with displays of railway models and railway modelling competitions as a small part of the exhibition (16mm narrow gauge show for instance). I would see that as a better comparison with the plastic modellers and I think it unlikely the entrants would get accommodation provided

[CloggyDog]

35 minutes ago, Ryde-on-time said:

Perhaps not a fair comparison. Putting a few models on display and then spending the show looking around and chatting with friends is a little different to having to spend the afternoon of the day before loading up, travelling and then all evening setting up and testing, then almost the whole weekend behind the layout operating. Finally a late night back after packing up

 

No, I think it's quite similar. 'a few models' may well number 40-50 for a standard display, each of which will have it's own packing box to ensure safe transport. So time to pack, load and transport is equivalent. Set out the display and usually have 2 or 3 people 'on duty' to keep an eye out for wandering fingers and answer questions from the interested viewer. Then carefully pack them all away at the end of the show and travel home. 

 

The only difference is static models vs moving models. 

 

I've heard back from my friend, whose IPMS group will be at Key Model World - they're getting 4 free passes and 2 parking permits. Nothing else. 

Edited February 11 by CloggyDog

[cornelius]

2 hours ago, arran said:

And most places i think take the money on arrival

 

It depends. With Premier Inn the best rates are usually paid in advance and non-cancellable.

 

Perhaps the principle of the arrangement is fine but the value of the allowance needs some work depending on venue, time of year and how far in advance the invitation is made.

Edited February 11 by cornelius

[dasatcopthorne]

I think a little modification needs to be applied to the concept.

Make it £70 per room per night whether it's one or two layout staff, (always twin rooms) then the layout with a single operator would still be able to afford to stay over. A layout with two staff would cost the same.

 

Our club often exhibits on a stay away basis and some of the hotels we've been put up in have been, quite frankly, terrible. I wonder if the organisers would stay there?

 

One particular show we have needed accommodation for on 3 or 4 occasions has put us in a hotel some of us refuse to use again. If the cost was given as Expenses then we could go to the local Premier Inn.

It's off putting when you walk into your room and find someone's old sock behind the door or the corners of the bathroom floor are dirty.

 

Dave.

[dasatcopthorne]

8 hours ago, CloggyDog said:

Former exhibition manager here and agree that booking accomodation was always something of a chore - finding good cheap rooms, certainly in the days before Trivago/Bookingdotcom/etc, relied on local knowledge (but how many of us stay in hotels in our own towns?). 

 

Doing it an allowance basis means less work for the ExMan and gives layout owner/operators more of a choice - I've certainly stayed in some... interesting accommodation as an exhibitor, some I'd rather not stay at again! 

 

I'm part of a layout crew for Model World Live, our layout lead has found us a Premier Inn in the area for just under the allowance (£35 per bed night - 4 operators for 2 nights means our allowance is £280 total). 

 

 

What would you do about a single operator layout

 

Dave.

[Dagworth]

Maybe we need a couple of brave exhibition managers to give exhibitors the choice of either the exhibition sorting out accommodation or offering the £35 PP/PN DIY option and compare the uptake numbers for each?

 

Andi

[arran]

6 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

Maybe we need a couple of brave exhibition managers to give exhibitors the choice of either the exhibition sorting out accommodation or offering the £35 PP/PN DIY option and compare the uptake numbers for each?

 

Andi

You make a good point on this .

 

If you just want a place to bed down with no frills Then Fine if you want to be more upmarket and pay a bit extra Also fine .

 

Regards Arran

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said:

It's off putting when you walk into your room and find someone's old sock behind the door or the corners of the bathroom floor are dirty.

 

I used to have a wife like that.

 

Mike.

[ardbealach]

Part of the enjoyment after a full day of operating is to find other exhibitors and layout operators in the bar of the hotel.   It is a chance to meet up with them as we are too busy operating at the show to hsve a chat.  This cannot be done if everyone is staying in their own 'self arranged' accommodation.

 

As an exhibitor in my view there is enough to do in getting the layout and operators ready for a show without the hassle of finding the hotel accommodation as well.

 

As exhibitors we are there to entertain.  And in my experience of many years of exhibiting we are always out of pocket after a weekend show, not least the cost of our evening meals.  And if the show is a long way from our home base often we are put to the cost of a Sunday night meal as well.  

 

Personally I would not consider taking on a show as an exhibitor if our team was given only a minimal allowance and then have to find our own accommodation. (Alisdair)?

 

 

 

 

[Colin_McLeod]

What kind of room can you get for only £35??

[melmerby]

13 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

What kind of room can you get for only £35??

Cloakroom?😄

[ELTEL]

8 hours ago, CloggyDog said:

 

No, I think it's quite similar. 'a few models' may well number 40-50 for a standard display, each of which will have it's own packing box to ensure safe transport. So time to pack, load and transport is equivalent. Set out the display and usually have 2 or 3 people 'on duty' to keep an eye out for wandering fingers and answer questions from the interested viewer. Then carefully pack them all away at the end of the show and travel home. 

 

The only difference is static models vs moving models. 

 

I've heard back from my friend, whose IPMS group will be at Key Model World - they're getting 4 free passes and 2 parking permits. Nothing else. 

Sorry I don’t agree, having been to the IPMS convention many times over the years and regular owner and operator of both my own club layouts the two types of shows are totally different.

 

I agree the standard of Modeling at IPMS events are first class and many model railway layouts don’t reach the same standards.

 

The major difference is with model railways we operate the layout for the whole time of exhibition, we’re as at the IPMS they all sit around and chat to each other.

 

The IPMS organisers must be making a fortune out of all the traders attending.

 

I like all railway modeller are not looking to make a profit out of attending exhibitions, but equally not costing themselves money to attend especially if the exhibition is being run by a commercial organisation to make a profit for the shareholders.

 

Eltel 

 

 

 

 

 

[DavidB-AU]

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

What kind of room can you get for only £35??

 

The one where they have to evict Harry Potter to make room for you.