Peterborough North

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I thought maybe you'd over done the weathering a little.

 

Then I saw these...

 

 

Steam powered railways really were filthy weren't they?

[micklner]

Is it a genuine photo?it is a obvious question ? Compare the vans with the lorries, Vans filthy, Lorries without a sign of dirt anywhere !! two are the same shade of Blue , but are different models, highly unlikely !!   IMHO

[Sam*45110*SVR]

I thought maybe you'd over done the weathering a little.

 

Then I saw these...

 

fish_vans_01_welcome.jpg

 

Steam powered railways really were filthy weren't they?

Quite why BR decided to paint these vans white when steam locomotives were being used is beyond me !

 

Sam

[coachmann]

Quite why BR decided to paint these vans white when steam locomotives were being used is beyond me !

 

Sam

White deflects heat.

[bigwordsmith]

I've never used powders - I'm afraid I'm still in the spot of paint and dry brush era, which is great for heavy weathering , but not much use for light stuff. As others have said the key to steam modelling seems to be a general layer of grime over everything except carriage sides and roofs, and of course, engines from Haymarket and Top Shed

[mardle]

The photo above is Aberdeen in the mid 60s. It was on the cover/back cover of one of Geoff Kent's books on wagon modelling.

 

Geoff Hodson

[Rail-Online]

Here's a fish train heading south from Donny to Peterboro in 1964!

 

Interesting how the 'V' strapping concentrates the filth on that second fish van.

 

Tony

 

Edit -file too big to attach!

Edited January 25, 2014 by Rail-Online

[Mallard60022]

Those photo's show the reality of the railway at the time. The haulier's/fish Co's flatbeds would have been kept smart that's why they look so clean I suspect?

So Gilbert sets the trend for realistic weathering and I think we can all safely say that our memories can play tricks......

 

P

Edited January 25, 2014 by Mallard60022

[Rail-Online]

Found some more!

 

At Grimsby this time around 1962, note that within the train are some (rater smelly) standard BR vans.

 

Tony

[mullie]

As someone who models the 50s and who wasn't around at the time(born in 64) these photos are priceless.

 

What would cause the brake van to have what appears to be a very light coloured roof?

Edited January 25, 2014 by mullie

[Rail-Online]

What would cause the brake van to have what appears to be a very light coloured roof?

Don't know, I guess it could be newly re-covered. Would look wrong on a model so don't do it!

 

Just put your head out of a window on a preserved line and see what comes down on it -pure soot.

All coaches and wagons were subjected to that soot every time they moved...........

 

Tony

 

Edit Typo

Edited January 25, 2014 by Rail-Online

[Mallard60022]

As someone who models the 50s and who wasn't around at the time(born in 64) these photos are priceless.

 

What would cause the brake van to have what appears to be a very light coloured roof?

Possibly a re cover? Maybe even no cover and just wood, but I suspect it would have been 'stopped' if that was the case - the Guard would not have stood for that (if he could see it of course).

P

[tetleys]

Gilbert,

 

Nothing to do with fish vans but I've managed an afternoon modelling the 'sexy bits' and since I've taken some happy snaps this one may be of interest having regard to one of our conversations at P. North Station Hotel

 

I have finally used my economy (£23) static grass applicator and with the shorter flock I had to hand it worked OK but more bowling lawn than railway embankment but just about perfect for The Station Hotel lawn, we need to discuss which flock you need to buy so as not to make it too 'Sound of Music' but certainly better than the grass mats. If you find yourself in a model shop look for autumn mix and summer mix, the two tone down just about right.

 

Dave

[7APT7]

Excellent bit of modelling mate

 

Jamie

[The Stationmaster]

As someone who models the 50s and who wasn't around at the time(born in 64) these photos are priceless.

 

What would cause the brake van to have what appears to be a very light coloured roof?

The roof has been recovered and treated with something other than the more usual black bitumen.

[Andrew P]

Gilbert,

 

Nothing to do with fish vans but I've managed an afternoon modelling the 'sexy bits' and since I've taken some happy snaps this one may be of interest having regard to one of our conversations at P. North Station Hotel

scenery static 1 004 (1024x768).jpg

 

I have finally used my economy (£23) static grass applicator and with the shorter flock I had to hand it worked OK but more bowling lawn than railway embankment but just about perfect for The Station Hotel lawn, we need to discuss which flock you need to buy so as not to make it too 'Sound of Music' but certainly better than the grass mats. If you find yourself in a model shop look for autumn mix and summer mix, the two tone down just about right.

 

Dave

Dave, just as a note, If I have a large area to do, I still use the Autumn Mat and then use different colour flock in patches for better cover.

 

Andy

[coachmann]

The roof has been recovered and treated with something other than the more usual black bitumen.

Wouldn't BR have still been using white lead paint with some black added to make light grey for wood & canvass roofs?

[mullie]

My one question seems to have sparked some really interesting answers and that roof is something I've never seen before. It's a sobering thought I suppose that I am 50 this year but never saw steam in service, in fact it had gone from the part of Essex I was bought up in by the time I was born (Brentwood).

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread, it wasn't intentional

[chris p bacon]

I wouldn't worry too much about the weathering on the fish vans Gilbert, this is what they look,like when they get to Sandy.

Courtesy of Grimsby men, a cab heater and a forgetting about the bottleneck.....

 

Not fish again Mother......yes, there was more on the doorstep again this morning!

[The Stationmaster]

Wouldn't BR have still been using white lead paint with some black added to make light grey for wood & canvass roofs?

 Could be Coach - works and shop practices varied and by then some places used something which seemed to be a sort of thinned bitumen treatment and it certainly came off like bitumen.  There were also various experiments I think - probably later - such as one using the same material as that used for the plastic wagon sheets (also pale grey) which apprently was something a failure according to a bloke at Derby Research who gave a talk about 'novel ideas' to a course I was on in 1966.  (and going totally OT the oddest of their experiments was applying something like the 'sharp' part of a Velcro fastening to the nose of an EE Type 1 (Class 20) - left it covered with a sort of 'prickly surface, I wondered what happened to the pics of that?)

[Worsdell forever]

  (and going totally OT the oddest of their experiments was applying something like the 'sharp' part of a Velcro fastening to the nose of an EE Type 1 (Class 20) - left it covered with a sort of 'prickly surface, I wondered what happened to the pics of that?)

 

Sorry to keep this off topic, but it really does beg the question... WHY?

[The Stationmaster]

Sorry to keep this off topic, but it really does beg the question... WHY?

If Gilbert doesn't object to the snatching of his thread (I'll delete this is he does) the whole thing sounded like some sort of farce.  At the time BR was having lots of trouble keeping the yellow ends of locos clean so Derby Research were given funding to investigate possible answers and alternatives.  They got hold of a process which worked rather like the Noch Grassmaster does nowadays and which could coat a surface with fine, rigid, nylon 'bristles'.  They duly treated the nose end of an EE Type 1 with this process and put it into a trial diagram competing with a freshly painted yellow nose end on another loco and monitored the results - all very scientific.

 

The trial didn't run for very long as all the flies and bugs etc the loco collected didn't splat on the paintwork but they did get stuck on the 'bristles' - exactly as they were meant to do.  Only trouble was they found it even harder to get them of the bristles than it was to get them off the normal painted surface, hardly surprising when you think about it.  Anyway the bloke gave us a slide show of various things the dept had been 'experimenting' with and it included the 'bristling' Type 1, with a front end that looked more black than yellow due to all the insects spiked on the 'bristles'.  I'd love to know if those pics are sitting in an archive or collection somewhere?

[Mallard60022]

Sandy Bugle headline:

Kippers Tonight.

P

[great northern]

If Gilbert doesn't object to the snatching of his thread (I'll delete this is he does) the whole thing sounded like some sort of farce.  At the time BR was having lots of trouble keeping the yellow ends of locos clean so Derby Research were given funding to investigate possible answers and alternatives.  They got hold of a process which worked rather like the Noch Grassmaster does nowadays and which could coat a surface with fine, rigid, nylon 'bristles'.  They duly treated the nose end of an EE Type 1 with this process and put it into a trial diagram competing with a freshly painted yellow nose end on another loco and monitored the results - all very scientific.

 

The trial didn't run for very long as all the flies and bugs etc the loco collected didn't splat on the paintwork but they did get stuck on the 'bristles' - exactly as they were meant to do.  Only trouble was they found it even harder to get them of the bristles than it was to get them off the normal painted surface, hardly surprising when you think about it.  Anyway the bloke gave us a slide show of various things the dept had been 'experimenting' with and it included the 'bristling' Type 1, with a front end that looked more black than yellow due to all the insects spiked on the 'bristles'.  I'd love to know if those pics are sitting in an archive or collection somewhere?

No problem at all, Mike -it is about railways, and it is certainly interesting. I'm wondering though if those clever chappies at Derby later transferred to the Civil Service, as we experienced a lot of "good ideas" like that.

[great northern]

I seem to have got left way behind over the last couple of days.   Thanks for all the input regarding the fish vans. They certainly were filthy, and that photo of Aberdeen was one of my primary sources of information. The other photos which have been posted confirm how neglected they were.

 

Dealing with the colour first, thanks Mike (Stationmaster) for your comment. My effort is indeed too much on the brown side, and I shall start again, now I know what is wrong. I've always used powders for weathering, but have been irritated by the way they come off when handled. For that reason, when I saw Humbrol's instructions as to how to get round that problem I decided to give it a try. Basically it involves mixing powders to get the desired colour, then adding water, mixing to a paste and then adding a few drops of Decalfix. The powder is then painted onto whatever one is weathering. When dry, the Decalfix stops the weathering from rubbing off, but simply by adding more water one can make the whole thing "live" again, and do more work on it or remove the lot if so desired. Apologies to those who already knew all that, but it needs to be made clear that was the method I used in order to explain the difficulties I have experienced.

 

I've used this method very successfully already, particularly on one of Hornby's Gresley coaches, and indeed as part of the same batch as the fish vans I've done another coach and some parcels vans, all of which have come out well. The vans though are smooth sided, and I just can't get a full coat of weathering to stick, hence my effort to make them look as though water had been running down the accumulated grime. It hasn't worked though, as based on the prototype photos there is still too much white to be seen, and in any event such streaking would not be so apparent from the scale distance at which we are viewing the model.

 

I think I shall have to go back to the old way of application, and seal the powders with varnish as suggested. Thanks again  for all the helpful suggestions, and if anyone can come up with a way of avoiding the problems which arise using the Humbrol method I'd be very grateful.