Peterborough North

[coachmann]

The trouble with those old time-exposures is the wires waddled about and so did not register on the photo..........(I jest 'o course - quack)

Edited September 9, 2015 by coachmann

[Richard E]

For a minute I thought that was Gilberts model, then it dawned on me it's the real thing from Crescent Bridge. Can just, very faintly, make out the wires in front of the hotel but that is it.

[Market65]

Telegraph wires can be very difficult to reproduce to scale, and I don't think that many people have either modelled them, or if they have then they have probably made a bit of a mess of them.

 

With best regards,

 

Market65.

[westerner]

I had them on Wencombe and they were a right pain to put on and I had reduced their number to four on a pole plus they kept snagging sleeves when I need to reach over the layout. I doubt that will. be doing it again on Kingsbridge.

[Clive Mortimore]

I had them on Wencombe and they were a right pain to put on and I had reduced their number to four on a pole plus they kept snagging sleeves when I need to reach over the layout. I doubt that will. be doing it again on Kingsbridge.

Hi Alan

 

They did look good.

[great northern]

I have looked at a very large number of photos of PN over the last few years, and I can state with absolute certainty that on just about very one of them no wires are visible between the poles. I seem to recall a discussion on here not long back when their absence was being cited as possible evidence that the poles were no longer in use. That is one reason they won't be appearing. The next is practical - some of them would be nicely in position to get snagged by careless hands/sleeves when the inevitable need to reach over them occurred. For example, would anyone fancy trying to lift that overall roof off if there were wires directly in front of it?

 

And finally, I haven't counted how many insulators there are in total, but would any man, or duck, in his right mind contemplate trying to string wire along and between them? And a final question occurs to me. How thick would those wires be to 4mm scale? So, would you be able to see them, particularly on a photograph, if they were there?

 

Everyone is of course entitled to his or her own opinion, but for me they add considerably to the feel of the layout just as they are.

[great northern]

How about a drop-in "frontscene" on the LHS? I appreciate that the LMR lines were there, perhaps little more that a slighty fuzzy pic of a long train?

 

Stewart

Yes, it would have to be drop in Stewart, as the view from that side is just too good to be obstructed. A couple of lines of wagons would do, as there were usually some parked on the two long sidings separating the Down slow from the Midland running lines. I shall be exploring the feasibility of reproducing the view of the old Spital Bridge sheds, which can be seen on that Deltic photo a couple of pages back, when it comes to producing a backscene for the last four feet at the North end, so I'll find out if something could be done then as you say just to drop in for photographic purposes.

[great northern]

 

Goodnight all.

[Clive Mortimore]

I have looked at a very large number of photos of PN over the last few years, and I can state with absolute certainty that on just about very one of them no wires are visible between the poles. I seem to recall a discussion on here not long back when their absence was being cited as possible evidence that the poles were no longer in use. That is one reason they won't be appearing. The next is practical - some of them would be nicely in position to get snagged by careless hands/sleeves when the inevitable need to reach over them occurred. For example, would anyone fancy trying to lift that overall roof off if there were wires directly in front of it?

 

And finally, I haven't counted how many insulators there are in total, but would any man, or duck, in his right mind contemplate trying to string wire along and between them? And a final question occurs to me. How thick would those wires be to 4mm scale? So, would you be able to see them, particularly on a photograph, if they were there?

 

Everyone is of course entitled to his or her own opinion, but for me they add considerably to the feel of the layout just as they are.

Hi Gilbert

 

If it there it should be modelled

 

Where I have seen telegraph poles with the wires in place it normally looks good. As you say the practicalities sometimes can overrule everything else.

[great northern]

Hi Gilbert

 

If it there it should be modelled

 

Where I have seen telegraph poles with the wires in place it normally looks good. As you say the practicalities sometimes can overrule everything else.

But what if it is there, but you can't see it, and so don't know of its existence? Yes folks, it's philosophy day.

[45609]

113 1.jpg

 

Goodnight all.

 

Looks familiar......

[Mallard60022]

But what if it is there, but you can't see it, and so don't know of its existence? Yes folks, it's philosophy day.

42.

Q

[great northern]

Looks familiar......

Bear with me a little longer please Morgan.

[great northern]

Hmmm. The fish aren't biting today. I'll try some different bait.

[great northern]

42.

Q

Singapore.

[Clearwater]

I'll bite. Great shot. Just thinking of the angles, if you moved a few degrees anticlockwise, could you hide the wall corner with the hose from the water column?

[great northern]

I give up. I shan't spend all day trying to wind something in. The answer of course lies with the locomotive, my namesake Great Northern. Some time back a few people were trying to encourage me to have 60113 on the layout, but I stubbornly refused. I'm quite good at stubborn. Anyway, I thought it possible that some might think that I had finally given in to temptation and locoholism.

 

Well, I haven't, but my goodness I was tempted yesterday, when this arrived with its proud owner David West, David W on here. The visit has been long delayed for various reasons, but took place at last, and he brought with him a number of locos to run on PN. 60113 was the first to be unwrapped, and I confess that it drew a gasp from me when I saw it, as it is just a superb job in every way. It was built by the gentleman who posted "looks familiar" a little while back, and my hearty congratulations to him.

 

There follows a series of shots of David's locos in action, all on appropriate trains but with a necessary extra vehicle at the front to deal with coupling incompatibility.

Great Northern took a Down Doncaster and Hull buffet car train, and I hope that this close up does it and its builder justice. I'll leave David and/or Morgan to describe its provenance if they so wish.

We also saw a V2 heading South with a Doncaster-KX service.

Again, I'll leave David to supply the details if he so wishes, but this certainly looks like a V2 to me, from which you will gather that it isn't the current Bachmann model.

 

I have a few more to process, but shall now stick to my resolution not to dwell too long in front of the PC, so they will be shown later.

[jwealleans]

I thought that rather nice BYP didn't look familiar. Morgan does build a lovely loco, doesn't he? Following a chat with him at Telford, I've looked at his blog and seen this which is simply gorgeous.

 

Might look a bit odd on PN, though.

[davidw]

I give up. I shan't spend all day trying to wind something in. The answer of course lies with the locomotive, my namesake Great Northern. Some time back a few people were trying to encourage me to have 60113 on the layout, but I stubbornly refused. I'm quite good at stubborn. Anyway, I thought it possible that some might think that I had finally given in to temptation and locoholism.

 

Well, I haven't, but my goodness I was tempted yesterday, when this arrived with its proud owner David West, David W on here. The visit has been long delayed for various reasons, but took place at last, and he brought with him a number of locos to run on PN. 60113 was the first to be unwrapped, and I confess that it drew a gasp from me when I saw it, as it is just a superb job in every way. It was built by the gentleman who posted "looks familiar" a little while back, and my hearty congratulations to him.

 

There follows a series of shots of David's locos in action, all on appropriate trains but with a necessary extra vehicle at the front to deal with coupling incompatibility.

Great Northern took a Down Doncaster and Hull buffet car train, and I hope that this close up does it and its builder justice. I'll leave David and/or Morgan to describe its provenance if they so wish.

113 3.jpg

113 4.jpg

We also saw a V2 heading South with a Doncaster-KX service.

857 1.jpg

857 2.jpg

857 3.jpg

Again, I'll leave David to supply the details if he so wishes, but this certainly looks like a V2 to me, from which you will gather that it isn't the current Bachmann model.

 

I have a few more to process, but shall now stick to my resolution not to dwell too long in front of the PC, so they will be shown later.

Thanks Gilbert for posting the photo's and for your hospitality yesterday.

 

The A1/1 Great Northern is a loco that I had wanted for sometime. It's a conversion of a Hornby A3 (107 boilered Sandwich) to the A1/1 done for me by Morgan Gilbert. It is a stunning conversion. it has run previously on Tony Wrights, Little Bytham.. The conversion parts being produced by Graeme King. This model has a Hornby tender underframes but tender top and cab were spares from a DJH A3 and A2/2 etch. 

 

The V2 is a standard new chassis Bachmann V2 with a Graeme King V2 body. With added etch parts from Peasholm models ( lamp irons etc) and brassmasters ( A3 parts).   Two further V2 are in the pipeline, though I may build the chassis for these. 

 

It was great to see the loco's in the prototype setting of Peterborough North. Like so many other layouts on RM web I feel I have much to be inspired by.  

 

Edited for typo.

Edited September 10, 2015 by davidw

[Tony Wright]

Thanks Gilbert for posting the photo's and for your hospitality yesterday.

 

The A1/1 Great Northern is a loco that I had wanted for sometime. It's a conversion of a Hornby A3 (107 boilered Sandwich) to the A1/1 done for me by Morgan Gilbert. It is a stunning conversion. it has run previously on Tony Wrights, Little Bytham.. The conversion parts being produced by Graeme King. This model has a Hornby tender underframes but tender top and cab were spares from a DJH A3 and A2/2 etch. 

 

The V2 is a standard new chassis Bachmann V2 with a Graeme King V2 body. With added etch parts from Peasholm models ( lamp irons etc) and brassmasters ( A3 parts).   Two further V2 are in the pipeline, though I may build the chassis for these. 

 

It was great to see the loco's in the prototype setting of Peterborough North. Like so many other layouts on RM web I feel I have much to be inspired by.  

 

Edited for typo.

 

It most certainly has run on LB, and very well.

 

Did it have a decoder when it ran, David? I can't remember. 

 

And, is that the same V2 in the background? 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Tony Wright

[davidw]

David West A1 1.jpg

 

It most certainly has run on LB, and very well.

 

Did it have a decoder when it ran, David? I can't remember. 

 

And, is that the same V2 in the background? 

The A1/1 had a decoder on LB,

 

It is the same V2, which didn't have a decoder at the time it ran on LB.  

[Alister_G]

 

And a final question occurs to me. How thick would those wires be to 4mm scale? So, would you be able to see them, particularly on a photograph, if they were there?

 

 

The individual wires used in those days were normally bare copper strands, with no insulation, unlike today, when multiple-core cables with Polyurethane insulation is the norm. They would therefore look something like thin fence wire, and be about an eighth of an inch (or 3mm) diameter.

 

If you want to check the maths, if we take 4 as our mm, and divide by 12 to get an inch, and divide by 8 to get an eighth we end up with 0.041

 

So in 4mm, they would be approximately 0.04mm diameter. An average European human hair is 0.06 to 0.08mm, so you're talking thinner than a human hair.

 

Al.

[great northern]

The individual wires used in those days were normally bare copper strands, with no insulation, unlike today, when multiple-core cables with Polyurethane insulation is the norm. They would therefore look something like thin fence wire, and be about an eighth of an inch (or 3mm) diameter.

 

If you want to check the maths, if we take 4 as our mm, and divide by 12 to get an inch, and divide by 8 to get an eighth we end up with 0.041

 

So in 4mm, they would be approximately 0.04mm diameter. An average European human hair is 0.06 to 0.08mm, so you're talking thinner than a human hair.

 

Al.

I think that is rather conclusive Al. Unless someone can point me in the direction of a supplier that makes wire thinner than a hair, and convince me that it would be visible anyway, end of story. And of course this may be why they almost always don't show up on photographs of the real thing. On that image that Phil posted they could only be seen, and then very faintly, when there was a building behind them. Against the sky, no show.

[45609]

Unless someone can point me in the direction of a supplier that makes wire thinner than a hair.......

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-04mm-ENAMELLED-COPPER-WIRE-MAGNET-WIRE-COIL-WIRE-50grams-solderable-/121575509552

 

Only joking.....

[Mallard60022]

My thinking is that if you believe they are there they will be.....it's a theatre thing and I don't mean operating theatre.

However, that copper wire would be quite good to do small runs of (say) one or two wires to something like a Yard Pole/Signal Post/ Platform lamp (as seen on some pics of such features) if no reaching was going to happen in the area.

Seaton Junction.....see the Platform lamp top and wooden post to the left of that (ignore the 'proper' TP up the bank!

Phil 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Mallard60022