Peterborough North

[barry.wilson]

Reply to question in post 9553

"Yet the builders of Tornado had to give one (a chime whistle) to an A1....why?"

When we were building Tornado regular meetings were held with the powers that be and during one such meeting they were not happy that the LNER screech whistle was adequate warning on the modern railway and requested that a diesel air horn be fitted as well. We didn't like this much - quelle surprise! We thus asked whether a chime whistle would be acceptable and they agreed and therefore 60163 has the chime whistle formerly carried by "Golden Eagle" I think it was. Graham Nicholas will no doubt correct this if my memory is failing.

I assume all would consider this preferable to a diesel air horn!

Edited December 15, 2015 by barry.wilson

[great northern]

Re locoholism Gilbert

 

I think there comes a time in a mans life when he has to face up to The realities of life...

 

As you know my indulgence has been Peppercorn Pacifics. I have nine of the dashed things on a line which was 90% dominated by HNG's fine thoroughbreds, yet I keep looking at 'Trimbush' and find my hand quivering over the mouse!

 

Fortuantely(?) I don't have enough loops planned or carriages to haul, to justify the 16 odd Pacifics I already have, plus half a dozen Type 4 and above diesels, so am going to have to rationalise.

 

Neither do I have the carriage building skills of a Coachman or loco build skills of Tony Wright or Graeme King, that would allow me to make money from my hobby, so I just have to accept that my hobby is going to cost.

 

In my case I can look at the cost of a loco and equate that to an amount of fees earned from professional work, but I know that in the future when I will have the fixed income of retirement, that luxury doesn't exist. Conversely I've seen too many people not that many years older than myself, laid low far too young, so have come to the conclusion that you might as well enjoy yourself while you have the time And funds at your disposal

I'm a few years ahead of you Peter, so the days when I could accept a case I didn't really want to do because it would fund a loco or three have long gone. I have to be more choosy now, but its all a balancing act, as you say. Dave Shakespeare's death brought home to me very forcibly that one can't assume that life just stretches away indefinitely.

 

Perhaps it is just me, but I would rapidly get bored if I knew that one of only a fairly small number of locos was going to reappear over and over again. It only takes a minute to put a new engine on the front of a train, so keep buying!

[great northern]

Reply to question in post 9553

"Yet the builders of Tornado had to give one (a chime whistle) to an A1....why?"

When we were building Tornado regular meetings were held with the powers that be and during one such meeting they were not happy that the LNER screech whistle was adequate warning on the modern railway and requested that a diesel air horn be fitted as well. We didn't like this much - quelle surprise! We thus asked whether a chime whistle would be acceptable and they agreed and therefore 60163 has the chime whistle formerly carried by "Golden Eagle" I think it was. Graham Nicholas will no doubt correct this if my memory is failing.

I assume all would consider this preferable to a diesel air horn!

I'm sure your assumption is correct, and I for one am very grateful to you for giving us the explanation. I wonder if the same requirements will apply if Flying Scotsman ever returns to the main line?

[great northern]

Serendipity Gilbert.

But I can't find that loco in any of my ABCs

[bigwordsmith]

Strange you should mention Dave Shakespeare Gilbert - Yesterday after watching again Guy Martin's excellent documentary about the Vulcan's last flight I found myself thinking about recontacting a very old friend of mine who used to be a Vulcan Skipper, and ended up as Chief Exec of Wolverhampton Council. We've not been in touch since 2010 so I thought I'd drop him an email to wish him season's greetings.

 

Imagine my surprise - he's the same age as me - when the email bounced back telling me he is no longer with the council. 

 

Further research unearthed that he retired on grounds of ill health last year - aged just 58, having been off for some time with a heart condition.

 

Makes you think doesn't it, so I expect to see that new B17 chuffing through PN when it is released!

Edited December 16, 2015 by bigwordsmith

[great northern]

Only one photo left from the last session. I thought I'd taken more than that. Here it is to be going on with. I may have time for some more later, but if there is enough light I shall be glueing curtains instead.

[bigwordsmith]

Gilbert can I seek the wisdom of the collective again here? This time on the subject of coach liveries.

 

According to a well known and often inaccurate online encyclopaedia, Maroon and Cream coaching stock was generally re-livieried into full maroon from 1956. As you know I have a large collection of Thomson 63'coaches, as well as a bunch of Bachman LMS portholes and a fair few Hornby Gresleys, including sleepers, all in maroon and cream.

 

I am wondering if I can get away with them  my 'window' of 1960-63, or am I really pushing the envelope too far?

 

I also have three rakes of full maroon coaches including all the above types and Mk1s, none of which tom y memory are on commonwealth bogies.

 

Thanks all

 

PS Cracking shot this afternoon BTW - what settings were you using to get so much depth of field?

Edited December 16, 2015 by bigwordsmith

[Oldddudders]

Dated contemporary pictures are the most reassuring guide, but I guess older coaches might not be at the front of the queue for repainting, so a few might be in the older livery at the start of your period.

 

I think south of the River Thames the liking for the return of green may have added impetus to the repainting. Eastern Region may have had less reason to splash the cash/paint.

[bigwordsmith]

Thanks for that - I've had look through several of my Scottish books - there seems to be a real challenge with dating photos on many of the 'late 1950s' pr 'early 1960s' being typical comments. One coup argue that as the Waverley Route, which I'm modelling is a Scottish route,, then my nation's famed parsimony would've come into lay there, but I appreciate the advice from those with much better knowledge than my own.

 

Certainly ere on PN there is a plentitude of Maroon/Cream and I always thought Gilbert was modelling c. 1960

[Oldddudders]

1958 I think?

[great northern]

Gilbert can I seek the wisdom of the collective again here? This time on the subject of coach liveries.

 

According to a well known and often inaccurate online encyclopaedia, Maroon and Cream coaching stock was generally re-livieried into full maroon from 1956. As you know I have a large collection of Thomson 63'coaches, as well as a bunch of Bachman LMS portholes and a fair few Hornby Gresleys, including sleepers, all in maroon and cream.

 

I am wondering if I can get away with them  my 'window' of 1960-63, or am I really pushing the envelope too far?

 

I also have three rakes of full maroon coaches including all the above types and Mk1s, none of which tom y memory are on commonwealth bogies.

 

Thanks all

 

PS Cracking shot this afternoon BTW - what settings were you using to get so much depth of field?

As it happens, I've spent some time this afternoon looking yet again at some colour albums, while awaiting delivery of a new microwave oven. The old one died after only 19 years use. What are things coming to?

 

Anyway, to your question. I would say that by 1961 crimson and cream would be increasingly rare, particularly in express trains, so no more than one or two at most in a rake. By 1962, all of the photos I've looked at today show everything in maroon, including Gresley and Thompson stock, not just MK1s.

 

Just to make things worse, the photos of Waverley route trains reminded me that V2s were very common sights on there, right up to the end of steam, so you need a few of those!

 

Camera setting? I nearly always use f8, and did so today. Anything between 1 and 4 seconds exposure today, as the sun popped in and out every minute or so.

[great northern]

1958 I think?

Correct Ian, 1958, and up to end of February 1959. I've come to the conclusion that I have gone too far with the proportions actually, and should have a bigger proportion of crimson and cream really, as photos show only the most prestigious expresses being all maroon by then. I'd still say though that by 1961 maroon would be nearly all pervasive.

[coachmann]

Regarding crimson & cream/blood & custard on the L M Region, this livery was applied right up to the livery changes in 1956. Add five years for the next repaint and you've got 1961. Any short-lifers such as LMS Period I, II and early LMS stock would not get their repaint. Blood & custard Period I two-window stock was around in 1962 as I traveled in it from Bangor to Carnarvon.

[bigwordsmith]

Thanks guys - I'm tempted by Larry's recollection's, especially as the Scots are famed for thrift

 

I'm pretty sure the the Sc Region management would take the view, particularly on a secondary line that the former company stock was unlikely to last a lot beyond the next repaint date once Mk1's became more widespread, so on the locals and stoppers I should be OK provided I don't go too far into 1960.

 

However I think I'm going to need more coaches anyway - especially having found that 9 bogie rakes fit comfortable around the line, so in future I'll have to buy maroon Mk 1s. Does anyone know if Hornby do bulk discounts?

[great northern]

Thanks guys - I'm tempted by Larry's recollection's, especially as the Scots are famed for thrift

 

I'm pretty sure the the Sc Region management would take the view, particularly on a secondary line that the former company stock was unlikely to last a lot beyond the next repaint date once Mk1's became more widespread, so on the locals and stoppers I should be OK provided I don't go too far into 1960.

 

However I think I'm going to need more coaches anyway - especially having found that 9 bogie rakes fit comfortable around the line, so in future I'll have to buy maroon Mk 1s. Does anyone know if Hornby do bulk discounts?

But think carefully Peter. How many do you really need? Don't fall into my trap, and start building up a lot of full trains. I know you won't have the size of fiddle yard that I do, but even so, some planning and analysis can save a lot of money. One MK1 SK, or Stanier porthole SK for that matter, looks very much like another, and no-one is going to be taking the individual coach numbers down, I hope, so work out the maximum number you will need in any one train. That can be all you need, if you are prepared to do a bit of shuffling of stock before running your trains. That's where cassettes and /or spurs can be so useful. I would think that nearly all of the time you will be running trains for your own pleasure, so it doesn't really matter where you choose to set them up. Somewhere in easy reach, and where you can see what you are doing is good though.

[great northern]

The pace of life is rather slow at PN, as we still haven't reached 1030am. The South end pilot is bringing the stock for the 1033 Parliamentary up from Nene Sidings, while the train engine waits in the bay.

A backscene on Station Road is definitely needed.

Or at least it is when looking from a higher viewpoint. No problem when we get back down to ground level though, as 60513 Dante backs onto the stock. The fireman will have to get things sorted as soon as the loco stops, as this is a Class B service, rightly so as it stops almost everywhere on its way to London.

[Mallard60022]

Thanks guys - I'm tempted by Larry's recollection's, especially as the Scots are famed for thrift

 

I'm pretty sure the the Sc Region management would take the view, particularly on a secondary line that the former company stock was unlikely to last a lot beyond the next repaint date once Mk1's became more widespread, so on the locals and stoppers I should be OK provided I don't go too far into 1960.

 

However I think I'm going to need more coaches anyway - especially having found that 9 bogie rakes fit comfortable around the line, so in future I'll have to buy maroon Mk 1s. Does anyone know if Hornby do bulk discounts?

Watch out for Railroad MK1s. Great value and easily upgraded (says he.....)

Phil

Edited December 17, 2015 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

But think carefully Peter. How many do you really need? Don't fall into my trap, and start building up a lot of full trains. I know you won't have the size of fiddle yard that I do, but even so, some planning and analysis can save a lot of money. One MK1 SK, or Stanier porthole SK for that matter, looks very much like another, and no-one is going to be taking the individual coach numbers down, I hope, so work out the maximum number you will need in any one train. That can be all you need, if you are prepared to do a bit of shuffling of stock before running your trains. That's where cassettes and /or spurs can be so useful. I would think that nearly all of the time you will be running trains for your own pleasure, so it doesn't really matter where you choose to set them up. Somewhere in easy reach, and where you can see what you are doing is good though.

I can't thank Gilbert enough for a recent 'audit' of my coach requirements for main line stuff. There will be a few of my coaches going on the sales sites next year.

Phil

[coachmann]

That's a really good shot of 'Dante' backing down to its train, although a real lineside photographer would have been cursing the positioning of that trackside box. Why not plug it into holes then it can be removed for photo-shoots ha ha............The beauty of today's digital multi-layered photography is the wheels are there behind the box after the latter has been removed...  

 

Edited December 17, 2015 by coachmann

[bigwordsmith]

Good advice from you all - I'm auditing as we speak and working out some train formations to make sure I'm not too far away. Then of course I discovered that most of my Oxford decants are post 1962, including of course several ford Anglia 105E vans which didn't really turn up in force until 1965

 

I have already acquired numerous Hornby RR Mk 1s - they look pretty good out of the box. I've even found someone doing choice and cream examples of r £ 13.99 with free postage on orders over £ 30

 

ATB

 

Peter

[Market65]

That second photo in monochrome is so real. I love it. More please.

Now, I think I know the answer, but why a pacific on a class B service?

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

[davidw]

Only one photo left from the last session. I thought I'd taken more than that. Here it is to be going on with. I may have time for some more later, but if there is enough light I shall be glueing curtains instead.

46 2.jpg

 

Diamond Junbilee! lovelly

[bigwordsmith]

I'd definitely better not buy any more coaches - just did a count which shows something of the order of 120 including all kinds of combinations of Thomson, Stanier, Gresley and Mk 1, from manufacturers as diverse as Airfix, Hornby and Bachman.

 

There are an awful lot of them in Maroon and Cream - I hadn't realised that the livery pretty much disappeared before 1960, but then if I had;t realised that, I suspect, as Gilbert points out,  very few of those who visit Waverley East will be any wiser than I.

 

I'll just have to crave the indulgence of those on this august forum when I post!

[great northern]

That second photo in monochrome is so real. I love it. More please.

Now, I think I know the answer, but why a pacific on a class B service?

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

Could be a couple of reasons I think. First one would be just  a convenient way to get best use of the loco. There were some Top Shed diagrams which placed A4s on duties which seemed well beneath them, but the return leg of the diagram would be on a top link turn. More likely in the case of New England engines though would just be to find them something to do. There were always at least seven A2s there, and no more than three Class A duties for the shed. They were supposed to be mixed traffic engines, but then New England also had more than thirty V2s for Class C duties. It is a fact that the A2s, particularly the three A2/2s, spent a lot of their time on these Peterborough- KX stoppers. The survey in HMRS Journal a while back showed six observations of the 1033 in July 1958 - four V2s and two A2/2s. The return working was the 4.19pm slow from Kings Cross.

[great northern]

Today's featured train is a Craigentinny - Wood Green Class C, routed via the Up slow in order to get past the 1033 KX stopper, which is still at Platform 2. Now, the Up slow is not the easiest place to photograph, as at the North end it has to be done from inside the layout, which means strong back lighting. The other end, I get strong light on the other side. All of which is an excuse for these not really being up to much, but here they are anyway.

A very strange effect on the cabside of the V2 in the last shot, which I couldn't get rid of. It looks even stranger in black and white, so I abandoned that.