S.A.C Martin Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 2nd photo, as Tom says, spot on. Really does work that one. The depth gained from the clouds gives the whole scene a further sense of depth and length. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 There U R, cracked it! Another trick is to choose a suitable cloud to use as exhaust steam from a loco. That LYR 0-6-0 in my avatar uses clouds for smoke. As regards, brightening/lightening clouds, another way is transparency. I give the cloud image a white backing then make the cloud transparent. Graduated from top to bottom is often better as skies appear bluer overhead. Hope this isn't getting a tad OT. It was one of the things that attracted me to a PC after I realised they were more than just a 'typwriter.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Must agree with you there Tom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 The last couple of days have seen two visitors. Tim has been here to do some general fettling up of locos and rolling stock in order to improve reliability of running, which seems to have been very successful, though to say that is probably tempting fate. He also brought with him for testing purposes his latest conversion from the Bachmann A2, which will become 60505 Thane of Fife, and will join my fleet, thus completing the set of New England A2/2's. Progress on that project can be seen on Tim's thread in Kitbuidling and Scratchbuilding. Gilbert will be pleased to know that things are very close indeed with Thane of Fife. What I don't know yet is what it'll haul, but it is heavier than the pair of A2/3s from the beginning of this year.... I should think at least the heavy 9 car set, Gilbert? Cheers, 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted October 15, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2012 Only the Elizabethan set is heavier than the 9 coach Gresley set Tim, and 505 won't be on that unless there is a failure. Even then I suspect the crew would have preferred a V2. But the loco will of course be made very welcome, and spend most of its time trundling up to Kings Cross and back on five coach sets, as it and its sisters did in real life. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Only the Elizabethan set is heavier than the 9 coach Gresley set Tim, and 505 won't be on that unless there is a failure. Even then I suspect the crew would have preferred a V2. But the loco will of course be made very welcome, and spend most of its time trundling up to Kings Cross and back on five coach sets, as it and its sisters did in real life. Only on 5 coach sets? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) This puzzled me too. Sounds more like the Bullied Pacifics than East Coast Pacifics. Admittedly I only saw them occasionally and so i went through by albums and the trains hauled by Thompson Pacifics were no lighter or heavier than those worked by the off-beat conjugated clankers. Edited October 16, 2012 by coachmann 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted October 16, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 Only on 5 coach sets? These engines were, for whatever reason, sadly underutilised, their average annaual mileage in their time at New England being no more than around 18-20,000. A round trip Pterborough- KX and return is about 150 miles, so just two such trips per week would nearly account for that. The Peterborough - KX trains were almost all based on a standard five coach set, formed BSK,SK, CK,SK, BSK. They utilised mainly 1939 purpose built steel articulated sets. One or two trains had a strengthener or two, but five was the norm. Fortunately the HMRS magazine contained a very good article earlier this year giving the results of an exhaustive survey of these trains carried out in July 1958, right down to the numbers of the individual coaches, so for once we do have the priceless ability to know exactly what was going on. OK, they did have more important duties at times, but I'm afraid the reality is that a lot of the time they trundled along on all stations Parliamentaries. Most had Class A lights for at least some of the journey, but they hardly seemed to merit them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Just been reading Peter Townend's book "East Coast Pacifics at Work" (only just got myself a copy, a heinous crime!) - this line, for me, sums up my feelings on the A2/2s "There was never any question of the engines not being able to do the work required of them as the A2/2s were never used to their full capacity on express trains but the task was frequently carried out on a cold morning in a cloud of steam with the exhaust not clearing the cab, on a generally uncomfortable riding engine and certainly not as economically as other engines". Not incapable, uncomfortable. It is interesting that he has a great deal of praise for the A2/1, A2/3 and A1/1 classes (Great Northern described as an "excellent locomotive) but the A2/2 was simply flawed in many respects due to the spliced front end described. I do find it fascinating that the A2/3 was by all accounts, a refined A2/2; and that is written of quite highly by Mr Townend. I suspect Thane of Fife will be an excellent addition to your stud in any event Gilbert - the workmanlike finish on it is almost RTR. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 These engines were, for whatever reason, sadly underutilised, their average annaual mileage in their time at New England being no more than around 18-20,000. A round trip Pterborough- KX and return is about 150 miles, so just two such trips per week would nearly account for that. The Peterborough - KX trains were almost all based on a standard five coach set, formed BSK,SK, CK,SK, BSK. They utilised mainly 1939 purpose built steel articulated sets. One or two trains had a strengthener or two, but five was the norm. Seems to me to be such a waste of what was meant as a powerful express locomotive. Having said that, they were much superseded by the likes of the newer A2s and also A1s, so it's not surprising in a way. A pity, too, that 60505 was the first to go, so she only has a year and a smidge left in traffic during your period. Being the first converted, it probably comes as no surprise! Can you recall what the heavier duties for 34E's A2/2s would have been please? I may have seen the odd image or two of them on here, but they're probably way back in the depths! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted October 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'm so sorry but I just couldn't resist! "When you're waving your smart wand around it has a degree of tolerance and stops the mask " Sounds like a weird film in which Gilbert plays Harry Potter and attempts to deal with an hilarious American cartoon prop! Alternatively it is some golfing term with which the uninitiated sensible are not familiar I have to say that the picture 'under the bridge' is superb. I just love the pics; it makes me feel that I am there in that lovely summer of '58; (Brian Adams missed out on that one....... ) Now you have mastered that lovely sky effect, may I just add that maybe, with your station shots, there could be some buildings 'at the horizon' ; I mean in the background (and at the sides in some way) so that you get true depth? Can we have some stormy skies too please? Really looking forward to seeing the 05 beast Tim. Sincerely, P @ 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted October 16, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 Seems to me to be such a waste of what was meant as a powerful express locomotive. Having said that, they were much superseded by the likes of the newer A2s and also A1s, so it's not surprising in a way. A pity, too, that 60505 was the first to go, so she only has a year and a smidge left in traffic during your period. Being the first converted, it probably comes as no surprise! Can you recall what the heavier duties for 34E's A2/2s would have been please? I may have seen the odd image or two of them on here, but they're probably way back in the depths! I have a 1955 Trains Illustrated which contains an article by G. Freeman Allen about Peterborough. At that time New England had just four Class A diagrams, and an allocation of nine Thompson Pacifics. At that time the Class A work was- Up Aberdonian Peterborough to KX, returning on 1005 KX - Glasgow as far as Peterborough. - 7.01pm Up stopper to KX, returning on 1255am Down- 1141 ex Peterborough to KX ( I believe this was a Sunderland -KX train) returning on the 4.10pm semi fast, and finally 9.40 pm Peterborough to York, returning on the Up Aberdonian as far as Peterborough. There were also three Class C freight diagrams. Bearing in mind that New England also had about 30 V2's, the stud was not overworked! It is noticeable that even these four duties were generally on night time work or day time semi fasts. For a while in the mid '50's New England also worked the Down Flying Scotsman from KX to Grantham, but that duty had ceased by 1958. All the photos I have seen show that duty in the hands of A2/3's, some of which had actually been cleaned! I'm afraid the allocation of most of the ER allocation of Thompson Pacifics to a shed with so few top link duties does indicate their perceived place in the pecking order. It also indicates to me personally that they probably never needed to be built anyway! They were doing nothing at 35A that a decent V2 or even a B1 could not have handled, except for the heavy sleeping car trains. I have also come to the conclusion that photograhic evidence must be viewed with care. I say that because I believe that most photographers were at the lineside mainly in summer, and mainly on Saturdays. It was a standard five or even five and a half day week back then, and no-one had heard of flexible hours, so weekends and annual holidays would be the only opportunity. The ECML on a summer Saturday was completely different, and anything that could turn a wheel was likely to be pressed into service, including the A2/2's, so I suspect that a lot of the photos of them on express workings were on Saturday specials or reliefs. I'm talking only about the New England engines though, as the York ones were very rare visitors down our way. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Many thanks for that Gilbert. It now makes a lot more sense to me on what I'd be likely to see the likes of 60505 on. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 A2/2s... yep, ugly and useless... >ducks< Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Fire Mission! Co-ordinates; post 2740, for effect! ;-) D. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted October 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 ugly and useless... >ducks< Bit like me really, however I actually like A2/2s even if they were c**p. They have an odd appearance rather like the King Class that ran on that GWR thingy but were obviously hopeless in comparison (?) Funny, I've never heard anyone say that a 'King' looks ugly................ P @ 36E (ex 83D) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Funny, I've never heard anyone say that a 'King' looks ugly................ I've never heard it said of the Stanier 'Princess' class either Phil. They were basically a King on steroids. Anyway, back to topic...... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted October 16, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 Today brought a visit from The Laird, who had some seriously good ideas as to how the layout could eventually be operated. They will be for the future, but have given me yet more to think about. With him came two locomotives far from their home on Bradfield Gloucester Square. The event was duly recorded, but in failing light, and unfortunately despite all the power of Digital Photo Professional and Paint. Net I have only succeeded in getting one shot into a condition worth printing. OK, it's the wrong sort of EE4 for the ECML, but never mind. I couldn't do anything about the light shining under the bogies I'm afraid. And you'll have to take my word that the sound was very good, for now at least. John did some video, but we shall have to see if the light was good enough to give a reasonable result. 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted October 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 Arggghhhh , a box thingy. However it is green and dirty so that's more or less OK. P @ 36E 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) The Eastern Region did not hold a monopoly of ugly steam locos. It is just a shame folk forget that without Thompson's innovations there would not have been the B1, K1, L1, O1 or A2 and maybe not even the Peppercorn A1. I like the English Electric Type 4.....But 4mm is crying out for a decent model that sits down properly on the bogies. Edited October 16, 2012 by coachmann 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Interesting reading from Peter Townend again...regarding Thompson's most loathed locomotive (a favourite in my books), in East Coast Pacifics at Work: ...Great Northern had run well over 2 million miles altogether and about 950,000 miles after rebuilding, the highest of any Thompson Pacific. This represented an average annual mileage of nearly 56,000 miles after rebuilding compared to 53,000 in its original form. A Great Western Castle/Star withdrawn at the same time with the highest total mileage of any GW engine had averaged 46,300 miles/annum since construction According to Peter Townend in both of his books (Top Shed and East Coast Pacifics at Work): Miles Per Annum, (based on average total mileage of each class against the class life) A1/1 - 56,000 A2/1 - 53,300 A2/2 - 43,700 A2/3 - 58,000 So in theory, all of the Thompson Pacifics did higher miles per annum than any Great Western engine - but they were all younger machines, and perhaps running along a longer stretch of mainline each week than the Great Western engines? It's not so clear cut as "The Thompsons were rubbish" or "The Thompsons were better than all Great Western engines because..." - personally speaking, the A2/2 looks the odd man out there, with a significantly lower figure, but the other classes look respectable. Not outstanding locomotives - but they did the jobs asked of them. Sorry Gilbert for going off topic a tad...! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I like the English Electric Type 4.....But 4mm is crying out for a decent model that sits down properly on the bogies. Best wait for the new Bachmann model then . I can tell you for nothing that it looks like one this time round! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted October 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) The Thompson Appreciation Society meet on Donny Station every so often. Tea and cake provided. Those quotes from Mr Townsend's books are interesting and I fully respect his opinions having been chucked out of 34A by him once!! (After he had let me look around that is.....) A new 40 - hoorah (except I have two of the old type both sound fitted and both tend to fall of my track at the most unlikely places and where other loco's romp! I suspect the bogies (rear axle flops about). Has The Laird found a cure for the bogie problem as his loco looks adjusted in height? P @ 36E Edited October 17, 2012 by Mallard60022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted October 17, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2012 Today I am supposed to be modelling, but I have also been out to snap a few more skies, one of which I have put behind a photo you have seen before, but which I rather liked even with blue card in the background. This is how it came out, unfortunately confirming that grey skies will be a problem, as the magic wand tool will persist in taking out other greys, such as carriage or station roofs, even when set to a very low tolerance. I shall persevere, but first, back to modelling. 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Today I am supposed to be modelling, but I have also been out to snap a few more skies, one of which I have put behind a photo you have seen before, but which I rather liked even with blue card in the background. This is how it came out, unfortunately confirming that grey skies will be a problem, as the magic wand tool will persist in taking out other greys, such as carriage or station roofs, even when set to a very low tolerance. I shall persevere, but first, back to modelling. Gilbert - wow - you've created a time machine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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