Peterborough North

[great northern]

Put her on the station approach surrounded by policemen arguing about who's going to arrest her?

:D  I'm not sure if I could afford that number of model police cars though. Tetley's could tell us how many would be needed.

[coachmann]

Some characters used in my road transport color conversions....

 

[lmsforever]

I remember gaberdene brown or black mac,s down to the ankles ,women in horrible pudding basin hats and older women in black straw hats(my gran specialised in them!)Women tended to wear plain coloured skirts for work and floral pattern ones for pleasure .Men tended to wear hats on every occassion possible my father had a very smart hombourg .hope this helps. 

[great northern]

Daylight nearly appeared for a few minutes earlier, so I tried another shot of the day, or three. Still too dark really, but here are the results.

 

 

Here is that Down Leeds pulling away, and as I can choose the sky, it has become a lot brighter.

 

 

This train features these two Thompson Restauarant cars, though the official formations seem to show all catering stock as being either Gresley or MK1. These cars must have been put to good use though surely, as they were only a few years old? At the time these were built, the only alternative was to use Kirk kits, so I went for these.

 

 

And here is a closer view of the main car, the other one being an FO specified for dining. Some doubt exists as to whether that one would have been branded as an RC or not, but such photos as I have seem to suggest that it would have been.

 

 

Last one. A local B1 has arrived from Grimsby, the train terminating here. It gives an opportunity for a close up of the end screen of the roof, and what the general consensus seems to agree is a suitably clad passenger. Note how this has been carefully cropped so as not to show the end of the BG in the bay.

 

 

 

 

[davidw]

Gilbert weren't the oval windows whited our?

[Mallard60022]

Great shots again G. Love that catering vehicle; is it really a plastic kit? If so it is a gem of a build.

Now, I am just going to have to sit down and watch a large number of Vids and DVDs I have lurking so that I can assess the clothing (not hot pants by the way as I would never do such a thing). If I find anything useful I'll let you know and link you or lend you the thing.

I suspect others will already be doing the same, if not then thumbing through volumes and volumes of lovely railway tomes.

I think quite a lot of films worth watching could be useful. How about the good old Titfield Thunderbolt (surprised that title got through the  screening). Were there any Carry On or Ealing things done around 58/9? I bet there are hours of footage on that tube thing?

Don't forget your Service personnel of which there were many travelling by rail in those days.

Drake.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Mallard60022

[coachmann]

I'll bet Peterboroplebs or whatever didn't wear clogs and shawls.  Mind you, if your layout is based around circa 1959 then they wouldn't be seen anyway.

 

Have a look at this for Londons streets in the 1950s....

 

Edited January 7, 2013 by coachmann

[andyrush]

 

 Note how this has been carefully cropped so as not to show the end of the BG in the bay.

But not carefully enough to avoid the lack of pipes (or front coupling) on the poor old engine......  

 

Nice pictures though!

 

ATB

 

Andy

[jwealleans]

Tell you what Gilbert, all the unlucky policemen who don't end up accompanying the young lady in the truncated trousers to the station could lurk around platform ends looking out for the local pikeys who keep debagging your stock.

[jwealleans]

weren't the oval windows whited our?

 

Not on the corridor side, I suspect. (Is that the 'less convenient' side?)

[Paul Cram]

The photos are great and the light on the first gives the impression  of a rainy day except for the sky.

[great northern]

Great shots again G. Love that catering vehicle; is it really a plastic kit? If so it is a gem of a build.

Now, I am just going to have to sit down and watch a large number of Vids and DVDs I have lurking so that I can assess the clothing (not hot pants by the way as I would never do such a thing). If I find anything useful I'll let you know and link you or lend you the thing.

I suspect others will already be doing the same, if not then thumbing through volumes and volumes of lovely railway tomes.

I think quite a lot of films worth watching could be useful. How about the good old Titfield Thunderbolt (surprised that title got through the  screening). Were there any Carry On or Ealing things done around 58/9? I bet there are hours of footage on that tube thing?

Don't forget your Service personnel of which there were many travelling by rail in those days.

Drake.

The restaurant cars are from Phoenix kits Phil, very definitely metal- they weigh a ton, as did the real things. The problem with films is that most were still black and white in 1958 - I'm pretty certain the first few Carry Ons were? I suspect too that when things were being filmed in glorious(and expensive) technicolour, the clothing would be designed to showcase that. Griity realism came a few years later I think. Service personnel is a very good tip thanks, as I gather plenty passed through Peterborough back then. There must be plenty of models of them.

[great northern]

But not carefully enough to avoid the lack of pipes (or front coupling) on the poor old engine......  

 

Nice pictures though!

 

ATB

 

Andy

Oh b*****, that'll teach me won't it? or not, as the case may be. When you next visit, I will get you to vet every bit of stock I possess. It's unbelievable that I can look at something so many times and not see it. As I said, vac pipes seem to be the most susceptible, but Bachmann B1's also seem to be good at losing the front coupling.

 

Incidentally, I can't see any vac pipes included with any of the Bachmann wagons I have recently purchased. Am i missing something, or don't Bachmann provide them?

[great northern]

Tell you what Gilbert, all the unlucky policemen who don't end up accompanying the young lady in the truncated trousers to the station could lurk around platform ends looking out for the local pikeys who keep debagging your stock.

They've had all the signal rodding and cabling too Jonathan.

[rowanj]

 

Not on the corridor side, I suspect. (Is that the 'less convenient' side?)

I posted on the "Help" pages some time ago with this very query, as I assumed Thompson's followed MK1 practice and only whitenened out the toilet window. The response, including the excellent Coachmann, was that Thompson's were "whitened" on both sides - i.e all 4 oval windows.

Back to lurking, and enjoying all the posts here ( and beginning coach 5 of my Bachmann/Southern Pride Elizabethan)

Edited January 8, 2013 by rowanj

[andyrush]

Incidentally, I can't see any vac pipes included with any of the Bachmann wagons I have recently purchased. Am i missing something, or don't Bachmann provide them?

I think the answer to that question is 'not always!' Certainly their conflats haven't got them, although all the recent vans I have bought have been properly fitted. I have a storage box with all sorts of plastic ones in, some of which I think are Bachmann spares and some I got off Ebay.

[great northern]

I'll bet Peterboroplebs or whatever didn't wear clogs and shawls.  Mind you, if your layout is based around circa 1959 then they wouldn't be seen anyway.

 

Have a look at this for Londons streets in the 1950s....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHhuBZEZESU

Thanks Larry, I really enjoyed watching that, and I shall do so several more times, as there is so much valuable information to be had. Early on, everyone seems to be wearing very drab clothing, but it is noticeable that when the camera gets to a busy shopping area there is more colour to be seen, though nearly all of it is still muted and pastel colouring.

 

Other impressions - mainly how clean and neat and tidy everything looks! Neatly cut hedges, little or no sign of litter, or is that just my rose coloured spectacles? And apart from the buses and just one car, no sign of red in either traffic or clothing. It is just as valuable resource for road vehicles too, and again colours are mainly muted. Lots of beige! Fascinating.

[great northern]

I posted on the "Help" pages some time ago with this very query, as I assumed Thompson's followed MK1 practice and only whitenened out the toilet window. The response, including the excellent Coachmann, was that Thompson's were "whitened" on both sides - i.e all 4 oval windows.

Back to lurking, and enjoying all the posts here ( and beginning coach 5 of my Bachmann/Southern Pride Elizabethan)

Interesting. These coaches were professionally built, and I know that the builder, as one would expect and indeed hope, worked from photographs. He has whitened the window on the other side of the FO. Harris appears to be silent on the subject, and I can't find any photos showing both sides of the same coach. However, if Coachmann says anything on the subject of coaching stock, I will always defer to his far superior knowledge.

[great northern]

I think the answer to that question is 'not always!' Certainly their conflats haven't got them, although all the recent vans I have bought have been properly fitted. I have a storage box with all sorts of plastic ones in, some of which I think are Bachmann spares and some I got off Ebay.

Being the obedient chap I am Andy, I have been building up my fitted stock since I last saw you. I've just had a good look at all of them, and between 80 and 90 percent are not piped, there is no provision made for fitting them, and I can't find any add on parts in any of the boxes. This seems strange, as a higher proportion of earlier purchases are fitted. I accept that it isn't a hard job to acquire and fit them, but shouldn't a manufacturer be providing them as a matter of course?  And shouldn't I be looking at things more carefully?

 

It really is difficult for the manufacturers I accept. The more detail they put on, the more there is to fall off, and I get tired of trying to find out which vehicle it has fallen off - I have a lot to choose from - the result being that in the end I give up trying, or at least I did until you quite rightly started to pull me up on these things. I'm not entitled to make claims about the accuracy of my layout if I miss or ignore things as basic to real railway practice as this.

[gresley]

Coachman, Gilbert,

 

Having watched your video of London Streets, I must say that it is VERY interesting.   Of course, having "been there and done it " so to speak, it brings back many memories of a time when life was full of interest.   Girls/Ladies all wearing skirts or dresses - they actually had legs that you could see (some more, some less), instead of the all pervading unisex jeans of today.   Motor vehicles of a far greater variety.   Streets not filled with litter, (I even spotted a couple of Council Road Sweepers going about their chores).   People didn't throw their litter down as they do today.  I suppose that there was a general attitude of "self discipline" and  respect and consideration for both people and property in those days compared to today.   It all made for a more pleasant way of life.   Of course there was the negative side as well, but not so much nor so aggresive as today.

Of course, one could go on, and point the finger at the reasons, but that is not for this thread.   Sufficient to say that those who know TW, will also know his views.

 

gresley

[great northern]

At the risk of further upsetting Coachmann, enduring the apparently perpetual gloom of the West coast, this morning the sun again put in a brief appearance here on the dry side. It didn't stay out for long, but as I shall be busy doing other things, you'll never guess what, for the next couple of days, I got on with the sequence a bit more, and took a few more photos. There have been a lot of A3 duties lately, and the 6.35pm KX- Hull produced yet another, and again from Grantham shed. I think A3's look particularly good from this angle, so here is 60106 waiting for the off at Platform 3.

 

 

Next train in the sequence was a Class H coal to Ferme Park.It is a very little known fact, indeed it does not seem to have been recorded at all either on paper or on film, that an 01 was trialled on these trains for a brief period in the summer of 1958. They say the camera never lies though, so it must be true.

 

The loco is deliberately out of focus on this shot, sorry Tim, as I wanted to show the effect of one of the more jaw dropping features of the operation of Peterborough North station. There is a train at Platform 2, the only Up platform line, so the coal train has to use the Up slow. It completely blocks both main lines at the North end in so doing. The signalman in North box has been summarily dismissed for leaving the boards off for the Down main.   Too much haste on my part yet again.

 

 

Having trudged along the back of the station, the train must now regain the Up main, and then onto the Up slow when it begins the other side of Crescent Bridge. An urgent order for more vac pipes has not yet borne fruit.

 

 

And so it blocks both main lines again, in order to do so.

 

 

And now we reach the limits of the real world, or the "real" part of the model anyway. I just wanted to see what kind of result I got from here, and I think it may look OK once we get Crescent Junction box and the old Midland station in place.

 

 

[LNER4479]

Whilst we're on the subject (fitted stock that is) don't forget the tie-bars between axleboxes (but only on those vehicles with 4 shoe 'pusher' brake gear. 8 shoe clasp brakes didn't need 'em). The two 3-plankers in the bottom right of the last pic seem like prime candidates to me!

 

I make my vac pipes out of guitar string (the wire wound type for the lower strings). By bending up a U shape at the bottom (where the central steel wire has been stripped) and drilling a small hole in the underside of the wagon (some RTR wagons already have a hole provided) I find this provides a good 'anchor' and I rarely lose vac pipes.

 

Love the lighting on the first pic of 60106

[coachmann]

Teddyboys started to liven clothing up in the mid 1950s with their full length blue coats with velvet collars, drainpipe trousers, frilly front shirts and string ties. These were the Bill Haley days and pre-dated my interest in clothing and popular music but when I was 15 in 1957, mum relented and bought me a 'fleck' jacket. These ¾-length double-breasted jackets replaced the teddy outfit and were generally in muted mid to dark blue with white flecks, but crepe sole suide shoes persisted.  Off-the-peg trousers were still old mans pants and had to be tapered from the knee downwards by an aunt with a sewing machine. The absurd 14" bottoms had given way to 15½" which at least would go over the foot without resorting to a zip!

 

For girls, weekend and Sunday garb consisted of billowing skirts below the knee (bright red or blue with large white dots spings to mind), a light coloured blouse plus a knitted cardigan. The 'common' girls wore tight fitting sweaters and padded bras....... Years of poor diet bred very slim boys and girls. By 1960 it was Italian suits and winkle picker shoes for boys and very wide hoolahoop skirts for fashion conceous girls. I once ran upstairs on a bus into a hoolahoop skirt as a girl struggled to come downstairs - Luckily I recognised her! Hope this assists.

Edited January 8, 2013 by coachmann

[great northern]

Teddyboys started to liven clothing up in the mid 1950s with their full length blue coats with velvet collars, drainpipe trousers, frilly front shirts and string ties. These were the Bill Haley days and pre-dated my interest in clothing and popular music but when I was 15 in 1957, mum relented and bought me a 'fleck' jacket. These ¾-length double-breasted jackets replaced the teddy outfit and were generally in muted mid to dark blue with white flecks, but crepe sole suide shoes persisted.  Off-the-peg trousers were still old mans pants and had to be tapered from the knee downwards by an aunt with a sewing machine. The absurd 14" bottoms had given way to 15½" which at least would go over the foot without resorting to a zip!

 

For girls, weekend and Sunday garb consisted of billowing skirts below the knee (bright red or blue with large white dots spings to mind), a light coloured blouse plus a knitted cardigan. The 'common' girls wore tight fitting sweaters and padded bras....... Years of poor diet bred very slim boys and girls. By 1960 it was Italian suits and winkle picker shoes for boys and very wide hoolahoop skirts for fashion conceous girls. I once ran upstairs on a bus into a hoolahoop skirt as a girl struggled to come downstairs - Luckily I recognised her! Hope this assists.

I think you should go into more detail as to how, or how quickly, you recognised the young lady Larry. or then again, maybe not.

[KevinWalsh]

The majority of service personnel passing through P/B back then would have been RAF personnel, from the large number of bases we still had in Lincs and also due to RAF Cranwell being just up the road (so to speak).

 

 

Service personnel is a very good tip thanks, as I gather plenty passed through Peterborough back then.