Peterborough North

[cornish trains jez]

That's another week which has whistled by.   Time for some more photos. What have I been up to? Dentist, having a broken tooth rebuilt - no pain, but some subsequent slobbering. Fortunately I'd finished doing that before our resident Duck flew in for a pre Christmas visit, and a couple of hours of tracing the routes of various telegraph poles. He came bearing a gift too, which you may well see, but as yet I should not mention. Then some golf, what else? followed by a Friday visit by Tim, on his birthday too, and Tony Gee. Tony also brought goodies with him, which have been eagerly awaited for some time, and which certainly lived up to expectations. Who shouted "get on with it" just then?   I will get to the point, eventually. Oh, all right then........

sig 1.jpg

Here's the first arrival. Of course the sun came out as the photo was taken, and tried to bleach all the detail out too, but you can see enough I hope of this work of art. Swiflty I moved the camera to the other side of Crescent Bridge

sig 2.jpg

and just managed to get the other side of the bracket signal complelely in shot. This one will be fully operational. I had acquired an accessory decoder, but this signal is servo operated, so it was no good, and the job could not be completed. Today though, I remembered and found the correct accessory decoder, which I had bought months ago. The other small signal in this view is there because it should be, but will not be operational, as the route it served on the real thing is not available on the model. Tony has done a beautiful job on these, and I must now get on with getting the scenic side of things that side of the bridge to complement them as it should. Next I thought we should have some trains to complete the scene, so here is an evening Down Leeds express slowing for its stop.

117 1.jpg

117 2.jpg

117 3.jpg

This loco earned me a painful experience on Grantham station in, I think 1957. I should not have shown off my limited knowledge of French by correcting the older boy who called it "boys rustle". was my reward.

117 4.jpg

I know it has clouded over remarkably quickly, but the other sky didn't work with the exposure necessary for this shot, Sun playing tricks again.

117 5.jpg

I do like this view, though I can't imagine that any photographer would ever have been allowed to stand in such a dangerous position. Last image now, taken mainly to try to do justice to Tony Gee's craftsmanship, though I put a train in just to finish things off. I even spent a very long time photoshopping the signal, purely because it deserves to be shown in the best possible light. There was some interesting new photoshopping to be done on the previous image, too.

1023.jpg

There should be a "bloody love this" button! In the meantime we will just have to settle with the "like" button.

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

[t-b-g]

Many thanks for the kind words Gilbert.

 

I congratulate you on the photos. There is a degree of realism about them that isn't seen too often in model photos and they really show the layout up for what it is, which is very nice indeed!

 

Tony 

[davidw]

Love the latest shots Gilbert - thanks for sharing.

Edited December 21, 2014 by davidw

[jonny777]

What wonderful photos; I am off down memory lane again.

 

The weathering on 60117 is superb.

[Donington Road]

Those new signals really are a work of art.

First time I've seen that telegraph pole as well, thats a real humdinger.

[Mallard60022]

 

1023.jpg

What a beautiful signal.

Quackers.

[LNERGE]

What a beautiful signal.

Quackers.

Yes it's a real GEM (G for goods, E for excursion line, M for main to down fast) ((it's three indications it could show))

[New Haven Neil]

Is our beaked friend returning to string up the teflegraf pole?

 

Oh, those signals.....simply superb. New photographic vistas too, finally the other side of the bridge!  

[Donington Road]

Is our beaked friend returning to string up the teflegraf pole?

 

Oh, those signals.....simply superb. New photographic vistas too, finally the other side of the bridge!  

 

Wires and ducks don't mix well, we don't want him in another tangle.

[Richard E]

Monsieur Duck has made a start on the telegraph poles - probably still pondering that monster on the station forecourt though. I expect he'll claim it's driving him quackers.

[LNER4479]

New signal - magnificent

[great northern]

Yes it's a real GEM (G for goods, E for excursion line, M for main to down fast) ((it's three indications it could show))

Many thanks for that reminder. We were discussing the position of the signal, and what it controlled, as it was being installed, but I couldn't find the Crescent Junction box diagram which you kindly sent me a while back, and so came to no firm conclusion. Now we know.

[great northern]

Monsieur Duck has made a start on the telegraph poles - probably still pondering that monster on the station forecourt though. I expect he'll claim it's driving him quackers.

 He has indeed made a start, and our deliberations the other day fortunately revealed that there is not as much still to be done as we thought.  From the pole now in place, the wires turned sharp right, and headed off towards the main road, so the next really large one at the North end is well off scene. That means that we only have three more of about the same complexity running South, plus of course the monster, so the job is looking somewhat less daunting. As to the monster, our Duck says that for some reason he is looking forward to the challenge of building it. Strange things, ducks, but very kind and helpful nevertheless.

[Mallard60022]

That duck (well drake but never mind), must confess to only being the painter and deliverer of said pole.

Season's greetings to you all.

Quackers.

[trw1089]

Those signals are simply superb Gilbert, definitely works of art.

 

Can I ask what was the working of the last train with the B1 1023 on the head end? It's just the artic set has got me curious as to why that would be on a stopper. I must find some artics to build, always liked the idea of saving a bogie or two!

 

Cheers

Tony

[great northern]

Those signals are simply superb Gilbert, definitely works of art.

 

Can I ask what was the working of the last train with the B1 1023 on the head end? It's just the artic set has got me curious as to why that would be on a stopper. I must find some artics to build, always liked the idea of saving a bogie or two!

 

Cheers

Tony

The Artic set is one of the 1935 build to Dia 194/5, steel sided, and originally with a short composite to Dia 190 in the middle. By my period, almost all of the composites had been replaced by post war stock, mainly MK1's. They did some main line work pre war, though some went new to the E.Lincs line, but by 1958 they were on secondary work. Quite a lot of the KX- Peterborough slows had them. This one was on a Grimsby arrival, and was captured taking the empty stock down to Nene sidings. The fireman forgot to change the lamps though.

 

I have two sets, both from Phoenix kits, but Southern Pride also do them, rather better, I think.

[trw1089]

Thanks Gilbert

 

I have seen the ones with the short compo in the middle, but didn't realise they removed them to form the two car sets.

 

Cheers

Tony

Edited December 23, 2014 by trw1089

[LNER4479]

I have seen the ones with the short compo in the middle, but didn't realise they removed them to form the two car sets.

If I can be so bold, I think you might have slightly misinterpreted Gilbert's information.

 

The original formation of these sets, when first constructed in 1935 was:

Brake Third-Third (twin) - Composite - Third-Brake Third (twin), ie two (identical) brake third twins with a separate composite sandwiched in the middle forming a five coach set.

 

They were indeed used on the East Lincs mainline (where they were sometimes referred to as the 'Grimsby sets') and also on the East Coast (GN) mainline where they provided intermediate services to fill in the often long gaps between principal express services. There is a useful section in the Banks/Carter LNER coaching stock book describing their operation.

 

Courtesy of Graeme King, we have a set available in original condition for use on Grantham. Its appearance in the planned operating schedule gives a flavour of the original use of these sets in the pre-war era. Firstly as the 10.57am Leeds - King's Cross, which called at Grantham 1.31-1.35, due in King's Cross at 4.40 (to give an idea, after the Grantham stop it was due to call at Corby Glen, Little Bytham, Essendine, Peterborough, Huntingdon, St Neots, Hitchin and Finsbury Park). Secondly, as the 4.15pm King's Cross - Grantham (arr. 7.26), calling at Finsbury Park, Hatfield, Hitchin, Biggleswade, Sandy, St Neots, Huntingdon, Peterborough and Essendine. This latter train followed in the wake of the famous simultaneous 4pm departures from King's Cross, ie the Coronation streamliner train and the combined Newcastle/Leeds express. However, by the time it had got to Grantham, it had effectively been caught up by the 5.45 (Newcastle) and 5.50 (Leeds) expresses and these two trains thus got ahead of it at that point. Thereafter, it restarted northbound as the 8.7pm service to Doncaster. I have heard somewhere that it carried express passenger (class 1) headlamps from King's Cross to Grantham and the ordinary passenger (class 2) headlamp north of Grantham.

 

By Gilbert's period (1958), as was so typical, such sets had been disbanded and used elsewhere as a result of rolling stock cascade hence the use of one of these twins in the service Gilbert describes.

 

All fascinating stuff, and definitely worth making the effort replicating on one's trainset! (IMHO)

Edited December 23, 2014 by LNER4479

[bigwordsmith]

Gilbert can I be presumptuous enough to use this forum to wish you and all the contributors here a very Happy Christmas?

 

This has been a momentous year for many of us, and the way you stepped up to the plate after Dave Shakespeare passed away is an object lesson to us all in what being a good person, regardless of your religious following, is all about.

 

Hopefully 2015 will be a great year for you and indeed all of us.

 

I hope you'll forgive me for plagiarising one of my favourite Irish blessings, which I think should apply to all of us here on the PN forum...

 

  May the sun rise always to catch the perfect shadow, and the wind blow soft along your fairway, 

  May the rain fall only on the days you want to play trains and the road rise gently when faced with a down express.

  May your trains run to time with no stoppages, and your ducks be always in a row,

  And until we meet again, may you always remember the warmth and friendship of this if us who meet here.

 

Have a great one everybody, and let's hope Santa has remembered where to load up his sleigh!

 

Peter

[great northern]

If I can be so bold, I think you might have slightly misinterpreted Gilbert's information.

 

The original formation of these sets, when first constructed in 1935 was:

Brake Third-Third (twin) - Composite - Third-Brake Third (twin), ie two (identical) brake third twins with a separate composite sandwiched in the middle forming a five coach set.

 

They were indeed used on the East Lincs mainline (where they were sometimes referred to as the 'Grimsby sets') and also on the East Coast (GN) mainline where they provided intermediate services to fill in the often long gaps between principal express services. There is a useful section in the Banks/Carter LNER coaching stock book describing their operation.

 

Courtesy of Graeme King, we have a set available in original condition for use on Grantham. Its appearance in the planned operating schedule gives a flavour of the original use of these sets in the pre-war era. Firstly as the 10.57am Leeds - King's Cross, which called at Grantham 1.31-1.35, due in King's Cross at 4.40 (to give an idea, after the Grantham stop it was due to call at Corby Glen, Little Bytham, Essendine, Peterborough, Huntingdon, St Neots, Hitchin and Finsbury Park). Secondly, as the 4.15pm King's Cross - Grantham (arr. 7.26), calling at Finsbury Park, Hatfield, Hitchin, Biggleswade, Sandy, St Neots, Huntingdon, Peterborough and Essendine. This latter train followed in the wake of the famous simultaneous 4pm departures from King's Cross, ie the Coronation streamliner train and the combined Newcastle/Leeds express. However, by the time it had got to Grantham, it had effectively been caught up by the 5.45 (Newcastle) and 5.50 (Leeds) expresses and these two trains thus got ahead of it at that point. Thereafter, it restarted northbound as the 8.7pm service to Doncaster. I have heard somewhere that it carried express passenger (class 1) headlamps from King's Cross to Grantham and the ordinary passenger (class 2) headlamp north of Grantham.

 

By Gilbert's period (1958), as was so typical, such sets had been disbanded and used elsewhere as a result of rolling stock cascade hence the use of one of these twins in the service Gilbert describes.

 

All fascinating stuff, and definitely worth making the effort replicating on one's trainset! (IMHO)

Things didn't change much really. The HMRS Journal published an article a while back giving details of the KX- Grantham trains for a week in July 1958, right down to the individual coach numbers. Those five coach sets were still in use, and largely still on the same duties as they had pre war. I have two sets, one in maroon with a BR composite, and one in crimson and cream with the original short CK, because I like it. My justification for that one was that the E.Lincs line was always at the back of the queue for new rolling stock, so a set might just have survived until 1958. You can guess how I reacted when I found in that survey a set with a 1935 Composite, and running in a KX- Peterborough slow too.

[trw1089]

Thanks LNER4479 and Gilbert for setting me on the straight and narrow.

 

That HMRS article you mention Gilbert is an absolute cracker, just a pity it wasn't for 1951-52. I'm still trying to come to terms with the actual stock used on the KX-Leeds trains as the coach workings are good for the formations, but need to do some more research on the pics and other sources to work out the right mix of stock. It really is a bit addictive all this research, but I think it might end up being a pain in the hip-pocket when I count up all those coaches I need. That's why your storage sidings were so enticing, I need some populated just like it (though just not in Maroon!).

 

Cheers

Tony

[jrg1]

Any information out there on local carriage set workings in Lincolnshire?

[great northern]

Any information out there on local carriage set workings in Lincolnshire?

Not that I know of, I'm afraid. With generous assistance from Robert Carroll and Brian McDermott, I now have official formations for everything for PN...... except the E.Lincs line!

[LNER4479]

Any information out there on local carriage set workings in Lincolnshire?

What era?

[Richard E]

That duck (well drake but never mind), must confess to only being the painter and deliverer of said pole.

Season's greetings to you all.

Quackers.

But surely if he is Mr Drake that could, possibly, make him a real Charlie?

 

Sorry - couldn't resist. Merry Christmas to all and thanks to Gilbert and all those who have contributed to such an entertaining, realistic and educational thread that shows just what railway modelling should be about and debunks the 'gutter' press snootiness about our hobby.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Richard E