Peterborough North

[69843]

Ooooohhh......you are awful,..........but I like you                          r coaches/buildings/trackwork/information about LMS coaches/anecdotes about the 50s/60s etc.

Anyhow, what's not to like about one of these?

Img_0904.jpg

P

Note please that you can now use a lamp AND a disc!*

 

 

 

*Only for use by preservation modelers. Results may vary. If symptoms persist, see your local model dealer

[great northern]

Time for another of my occasional attempts to reproduce a prototype photo, again using an image which is copyright of Andrew C Ingram, and not to be further copied please. Three locos for the price of one this time.

1958 says the caption, which may well be correct. Grantham A3 leaving on a Northbound express, an Immingham B1 in number 4 bay, no doubt soon to be on its way up the E.Lincs line, and a station pilot furtling about, as they did. I don't have Galtee More, so Doncaster, next in number series, and a Grantham engine is the closest I can get. Nor do I have 61130, so 61143, my nearest Immingham B1, substitutes. I don't have 69293 either, but 69290 is pretty close. Here is my effort.

Actually, I'm quite pleased with this one, at least so far as similarity to the real thing goes. The signals are not in the correct place, but otherwise it isn't too far out. As you can see though, I'm still struggling to get the brightness and contrast anywhere near correct, so I would appreciate any tips as to how to do better.

[jwealleans]

That van nearest the water tower should be an LMS one.

 

There's always a nit to pick, isn't there?

 

Shows how good the whole thing is, though, when that's all you can find to carp about,

[davidw]

Time for another of my occasional attempts to reproduce a prototype photo, again using an image which is copyright of Andrew C Ingram, and not to be further copied please. Three locos for the price of one this time.

3 locos real.jpg

1958 says the caption, which may well be correct. Grantham A3 leaving on a Northbound express, an Immingham B1 in number 4 bay, no doubt soon to be on its way up the E.Lincs line, and a station pilot furtling about, as they did. I don't have Galtee More, so Doncaster, next in number series, and a Grantham engine is the closest I can get. Nor do I have 61130, so 61143, my nearest Immingham B1, substitutes. I don't have 69293 either, but 69290 is pretty close. Here is my effort.

3 locos.jpg

Actually, I'm quite pleased with this one, at least so far as similarity to the real thing goes. The signals are not in the correct place, but otherwise it isn't too far out. As you can see though, I'm still struggling to get the brightness and contrast anywhere near correct, so I would appreciate any tips as to how to do better.

That's a lovely shot

[teaky]

That van nearest the water tower should be an LMS one.

 

There's always a nit to pick, isn't there?

 

Shows how good the whole thing is, though, when that's all you can find to carp about,

Actually, I think it's the later BR version because of the diagonal bracing. 

 

Fortunately, they are more easy to come by as RTR models.

 

(Sorry Jonathan.  Couldn't resist.  )

[jwealleans]

Not a problem.  I don't claim any expertise, especially on modern and/or foreign stuff.

[Oldddudders]

Mallard60022, on 05 Dec 2014 - 14:47, said:

 I shall have one down working with lamps being used in the 'disc position' and I'm not telling anyone what that is yet.)

0115 Waterloo to Nearly Everywhere paper train?

[Mallard60022]

0115 Waterloo to Nearly Everywhere paper train?

Nope dudds........but that's a great idea you have given me. I actually got the prototype 'idea' from a DVD I have. It is either The Southern Way West (TVP) or Memories of the Seaton Branch and Seaton Junction (Branch Line Video). Other than that I'm not telling and you lot will have to wait until about 2017 before it actually runs (and that's a glass half full comment......).

Anyway, apologies to Gilbert as this has b all to do with PN. I shall go away now and ponder on whether I go to Donny this coming Saturday to hear a talk on the 'duplicate' new build P2 (not the A1 Steam Trust one..........). 

Duck person of 36E

[Mallard60022]

Oh yes, I forgot to say that there could be 2 A4s up & down the ECML this coming week in case people hadn't noticed. Not confirmed yet though. There's also a big green, shiny thing with brass bits and BRWR livery at Donny on Saturday as well. Yummy.

P

[The Stationmaster]

Oh yes, I forgot to say that there could be 2 A4s up & down the ECML this coming week in case people hadn't noticed. Not confirmed yet though. There's also a big green, shiny thing with brass bits and BRWR livery at Donny on Saturday as well. Yummy.

P

As I shall be in the vicinity of the ECML for part of this week I shall keep my eyes and ears open - thanks  (not that such events are at all like the real thing was).

[great northern]

I'm having one of those days when I can't settle to anything. Golf cancelled as I don't fancy playing in a gale, and I can find an excuse not to do any of the long list of stuff that needs doing. I finished up reading, yet again, my battered but cherished 1958 Railway Observers, and I discovered reports of trains that don't appear in the WTT. This was relating to August Bank Holiday, so presumably these were extras to deal with demand, but wouldn't they need to have a path even so? Can any of our ex railwaymen, or anyone else, for that matter, shed some light on this? Surely these trains would need to be advertised, stock, locos and crews allocated, and fitted into existing services? These aren't excursions or specials by the way - they are referred to as ordinary relief services.

 

I've also found a sighting of a 64A St Margarets V2 - first one the guy who sent the observation in had seen this far south since before the war. What train was it on? The 1130 Peterborough - Edinburgh!

[bigwordsmith]

That really does show hat versatile locos those Prairies were!

[coachmann]

That really does show hat versatile locos those Prairies were!

Yay, the 1945 batch really got around and went like a bomb...

[Fat Controller]

The timetable would have been plotted on a series of time-space graphs. When looking at such a graph, you'd see 'white space' between the planned trains, and this would be where you'd path your non-timetabled movements- even today, this is how additional workings are slotted in between planned ones. The art is in pathing such workings such as that there is no delay to the timetabled workings; this might mean holding the unplanned workings in platform or goods loops to let scheduled workings pass. The normal practice with such relief workings would be to run slightly in advance of the planned train, thereby reducing the number of passengers and amount of luggage the latter had to load, and thus keeping dwell times within acceptable limits.

I work in real-time railway operations, and still use such a paper graph; the basic timetable is produced on a computer, but additional workings are done with the aid of pencil, ruler and rubber, as a human controller can exercise more flexibility than most computer-based systems. It's much easier to ask colleagues in other departments to advance or delay workings by a minute or two, than to feed it all into the computer. 

[bigwordsmith]

Seriously? they had telegraph poles running down the middle of MPDs? 

 

Damn I need to completely rebuild Waverley Shed

 

Rats.....

[coachmann]

A Telegraph pole in the middle of the track somewhere down the Denbigh-Chester line according to the late Greg Fox. The line had been closed a while bit it would have made life difficult for track removal.

Edited December 9, 2014 by coachmann

[LNERGE]

The wires should be quite thick too. If there is a lot of sulphurous smoke about corrosion would be an issue.

Edited December 9, 2014 by LNERGE

[LNERGE]

The timetable would have been plotted on a series of time-space graphs. When looking at such a graph, you'd see 'white space' between the planned trains, and this would be where you'd path your non-timetabled movements- even today, this is how additional workings are slotted in between planned ones. The art is in pathing such workings such as that there is no delay to the timetabled workings; this might mean holding the unplanned workings in platform or goods loops to let scheduled workings pass. The normal practice with such relief workings would be to run slightly in advance of the planned train, thereby reducing the number of passengers and amount of luggage the latter had to load, and thus keeping dwell times within acceptable limits.

I work in real-time railway operations, and still use such a paper graph; the basic timetable is produced on a computer, but additional workings are done with the aid of pencil, ruler and rubber, as a human controller can exercise more flexibility than most computer-based systems. It's much easier to ask colleagues in other departments to advance or delay workings by a minute or two, than to feed it all into the computer.

The nearest i have to such a graph..

 

[Fat Controller]

The nearest i have to such a graph..

 

20141209_200644.jpg

That's pretty similar to the ones I work with, though mine only have the two stations...

Edited December 9, 2014 by Fat Controller

[Clive Mortimore]

Is that multi-road

 

That's pretty similar to the ones I work with, though mine only have the two stations...

In two countries

[Fat Controller]

That multi-tracked set of sheds is presumably a wagon works? Surprising to see one so close to Crescent shops, but I suppose they'd have been built by different companies.

There's some interesting stuff in the high-angle shot. The second wagon from the left is a recently vac-fitted ex-GWR one, then an ex-PO coal wagon, converted to merchandise use during the war (the London Trade doors have been removed). The LNER-designed steel open has also been fitted with vacuum brakes recently; interesting how the upper part of the insides of the doors and sides has received bauxite like the rest of the body, but the rest seems unpainted. It looks as though the wagon shops have been 'fitting' other opens, as there seem to be a couple of wagons that have received full-repaints (and appear to lack lettering) to the rear left-hand of the photo.

[great northern]

That multi-tracked set of sheds is presumably a wagon works? Surprising to see one so close to Crescent shops, but I suppose they'd have been built by different companies.

There's some interesting stuff in the high-angle shot. The second wagon from the left is a recently vac-fitted ex-GWR one, then an ex-PO coal wagon, converted to merchandise use during the war (the London Trade doors have been removed). The LNER-designed steel open has also been fitted with vacuum brakes recently; interesting how the upper part of the insides of the doors and sides has received bauxite like the rest of the body, but the rest seems unpainted. It looks as though the wagon shops have been 'fitting' other opens, as there seem to be a couple of wagons that have received full-repaints (and appear to lack lettering) to the rear left-hand of the photo.

The shed is the original 1850 GN engine shed, though it didn't last long in that form, as New England was built a mile to the North a few years later. By the 1950s, the left hand part of the shed had been sold to the Great Northern hotel for use as a garage for patrons, and the rail side doors had been bricked up. The right hand side shed was being used to house the breakdown crane. I need to check, but I believe that the Wagon works were immediately behind the left hand shed.

[Mallard60022]

The shed is the original 1850 GN engine shed, though it didn't last long in that form, as New England was built a mile to the North a few years later. By the 1950s, the left hand part of the shed had been sold to the Great Northern hotel for use as a garage for patrons, and the rail side doors had been bricked up. The right hand side shed was being used to house the breakdown crane. I need to check, but I believe that the Wagon works were immediately behind the left hand shed.

Oh...I thought you were kidding about a year ago when you said that.

 

 

If Gilbert is going to use a pole he/we will probably add a 'sheath' of plastic tube to the lower part of a brass pole to try to give the impression of 'tapering'. This would mean we could 'add length'. However, I think the planned pole will be OK for height.

 

Duck.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Mallard60022

[great northern]

The timetable would have been plotted on a series of time-space graphs. When looking at such a graph, you'd see 'white space' between the planned trains, and this would be where you'd path your non-timetabled movements- even today, this is how additional workings are slotted in between planned ones. The art is in pathing such workings such as that there is no delay to the timetabled workings; this might mean holding the unplanned workings in platform or goods loops to let scheduled workings pass. The normal practice with such relief workings would be to run slightly in advance of the planned train, thereby reducing the number of passengers and amount of luggage the latter had to load, and thus keeping dwell times within acceptable limits.

I work in real-time railway operations, and still use such a paper graph; the basic timetable is produced on a computer, but additional workings are done with the aid of pencil, ruler and rubber, as a human controller can exercise more flexibility than most computer-based systems. It's much easier to ask colleagues in other departments to advance or delay workings by a minute or two, than to feed it all into the computer. 

Many thanks for that information, though it could prove expensive, as it seems that I now have an excuse to run trains that don't appear in either working or public timetables, and for which there will be no official formations. This means that I can now well and truly ditch the thought of the Saturday timetable - the one I have can be the norm, and then when I feel like it I can just declare this to be the Friday before August Bank holiday, and shove some freelance extras in.

 

I can only presume that on days of peak demand the timetable went out of the window back in 1958, as the number of trains already in the WTT meant that there was a main line train leaving Kings Cross pretty frequently, and the comparatively slow speeds plus the double track bottle necks that existed must have made it into an absolute nightmare. I suppose people were used to it, and for most of them there was no alternative form of transport available.

 

I'm also surprised to hear that there may be paths available these days, considering the frequency of trains on the ECML. Still, as I say, it all seems to work in my favour...... which is nice.

[great northern]

Seriously? they had telegraph poles running down the middle of MPDs? 

 

Damn I need to completely rebuild Waverley Shed

 

Rats.....

Well, it wasn't an MPD by then Peter, though there would still be plenty of smoke about. That line of poles seems to have started somewhere just station side of Crescent Bridge, and it then kept going North for a long way.