Will the NRM get a new workshop?

[Peak]

A few articles from a few years ago have said that after Wonderlab had opened, the NRM would get a new workshop. Will it happen as part of the NRM's masterplan Vision 2025?

[sir douglas]

Where though? They had a purpose built workshop and chose to throw it away, as far as i can remember back when they announced the closure, Gresley would be the last and they wouldnt do any mechanical work themselves in the future, any work would be outsourced

[Peak]

1 hour ago, sir douglas said:

Where though? They had a purpose built workshop and chose to throw it away, as far as i can remember back when they announced the closure, Gresley would be the last and they wouldnt do any mechanical work themselves in the future, any work would be outsourced

What about in the new Central Hall?

[Boris]

Such a shame, the workshop was a fabulous missed opportunity to see what working on trains was really like rather than the incredibly clean displays.  I'm afraid the NRM seems to have gone for Tea and Toys rather than actual history and rolling stock at the moment.

[Lemmy282]

Obviously things must have been done in the workshop, but in all the years I visited I was never lucky enough to see any work actually being done!

[phil-b259]

20 minutes ago, Boris said:

Such a shame, the workshop was a fabulous missed opportunity to see what working on trains was really like rather than the incredibly clean displays.  I'm afraid the NRM seems to have gone for Tea and Toys rather than actual history and rolling stock at the moment.

Tea and Toys makes money for the museum - the workshop didn’t!

 

As I have pointed out many, many times before with Government funded museums unable to charge an entrance fee but not given funding which keeps up with inflation it is critical that said museum seeks to boost its revenue stream by other means. Simply the selling of souvenirs and refreshments to visitors is not enough these days and as such ventures like the ‘Wonderlab’ where an entrance fee can be charged are increasingly being restarted to.

 

There is also the practical consideration that in these increasingly safety conscious times there are many workshop activities which cannot be undertaken with the public present or where allowing the public to view the process slows everything down and thus affects the earning potential of such a facility.

[009 micro modeller]

4 hours ago, Peak said:

A few articles from a few years ago have said that after Wonderlab had opened, the NRM would get a new workshop. Will it happen as part of the NRM's masterplan Vision 2025?

I don’t remember these articles, only the ones mentioning the closure of the old one.

 

3 hours ago, sir douglas said:

Where though? They had a purpose built workshop and chose to throw it away, as far as i can remember back when they announced the closure, Gresley would be the last and they wouldnt do any mechanical work themselves in the future, any work would be outsourced

I thought the plan was to still have a conservation studio and basic workshop to enable them to do conservation and cosmetic restoration. Obviously what this entails depends on the objects involved (since they may not all be locomotives - the NRM has a vast number of smaller objects as well). But this is very different (and in the context of a static museum arguably more appropriate) from a workshop designed for doing heavy overhauls. I can’t quite see how they would staff the latter on an ongoing basis, if it’s only used to do one overhaul every few years. And plenty of museums outsource certain specific functions to those with suitable expertise.

 

That said, they will presumably need to be able to do running repairs to any locos used to give rides in the NRM yard in future, and the engineers who would do those repairs would need to be either on-site or on-call.

 

10 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

Tea and Toys makes money for the museum - the workshop didn’t!

 

As I have pointed out many, many times before with Government funded museums unable to charge an entrance fee but not given funding which keeps up with inflation it is critical that said museum seeks to boost its revenue stream by other means. Simply the selling of souvenirs and refreshments to visitors is not enough these days and as such ventures like the ‘Wonderlab’ where an entrance fee can be charged are increasingly being restarted to.

Although in addition to the commercial benefits we shouldn’t ignore the educational aspect of Wonderlab - if it was purely about making money there are easier ways to do that. I agree entirely though with the wider point about underfunding of museums.

[Michael Hodgson]

10 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Tea and Toys makes money for the museum - the workshop didn’t!

 

As I have pointed out many, many times before with Government funded museums unable to charge an entrance fee but not given funding which keeps up with inflation it is critical that said museum seeks to boost its revenue stream by other means. Simply the selling of souvenirs and refreshments to visitors is not enough these days and as such ventures like the ‘Wonderlab’ where an entrance fee can be charged are increasingly being restarted to.

 

Closing workshop doesn't boost revenue, it cuts cost.  However the general thrust of your point is valid.

 

10 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

That said, they will presumably need to be able to do running repairs to any locos used to give rides in the NRM yard in future, and the engineers who would do those repairs would need to be either on-site or on-call.
 

 

Elfan safety - don't let the kiddiwinks near anything that might be dangerous like power tools.  And there'll be hell to pay if mum finds out you let them get their sticky little paws on anything covered in grease and grime, let alone get it on their clothes.

 

And we wonder why they grow up not knowing how to use a screwdriver.

[Peak]

11 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I don’t remember these articles, only the ones mentioning the closure of the old one.

I read a few pages that mentioned it but only found two.

https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/nrm-workshop.1419879/

https://www-railadvent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.railadvent.co.uk/2021/07/nrm-give-august-move-out-date-for-steam-locomotive-60007-sir-nigel-gresley.html/amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=17082494024725&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.railadvent.co.uk%2F2021%2F07%2Fnrm-give-august-move-out-date-for-steam-locomotive-60007-sir-nigel-gresley.html

[Wheatley]

In the meantime, the last time I was there they were doing something with the 31 in the Great Hall that involved parking it over the inspection pit completely sealed up with  polythene sheets and gaffer tape. 

 

It seemed unnecessarily unkind to mention to the Explainer that it was a shame they didn't have some sort of workshop where this sort of thing could be done. 

[Bucoops]

39 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

In the meantime, the last time I was there they were doing something with the 31 in the Great Hall that involved parking it over the inspection pit completely sealed up with  polythene sheets and gaffer tape. 

 

It seemed unnecessarily unkind to mention to the Explainer that it was a shame they didn't have some sort of workshop where this sort of thing could be done. 

 

Wonder if they were having some asbestos removed?

[Mallard60022]

As with many things, loads of us see the NRM as a 'different place' to the thousands of people that actually go there. We are a minority that can satisfy our need to perhaps witness Engineering at a Heritage Railway. 

It's the same with many of our views on Heritage Railways as well. The successful ones run as well managed businesses. Businesses need to make money and many of those money making activities involve jolly activities, food, drink, and imaginative marketing. We may not like Purple Bulleids or inappropriate stock etc. However, punters want a good experience and will pay for it, especially if the  reputation of the success of said experiences is well sold.   

Striking the balance at somewhere like the NRM requires a Business Head that recognises the best ways to keep the place afloat.

If that means loads of seating and rather gimmicky selling areas then who am I to complain?

Phil

  

[Michael Hodgson]

Preserved lines also have to exclude the general public from the stuff they're working on, at least only let them have access in a controlled manner.

[RichardT]

20 hours ago, Peak said:

A few articles from a few years ago have said that after Wonderlab had opened, the NRM would get a new workshop. Will it happen as part of the NRM's masterplan Vision 2025?

I don’t know. But if I did want to know I could either a) ask on here, where no-one has a clue but you’ll get plenty of responses from axe-grinders or b) just email the NRM direct and ask. And then tell us what they say!

 

Richard

[Dava]

NRM has hardly anyone left who is qualified to do restoration work on large artefacts, as distinct from conservation. It has to be subcontracted or carried out by organisations such as heritage railways on items on loan. GCR currently has 3 steam locos under or awaiting restoration and 2 diesels from NRM. 

[009 micro modeller]

2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Wonder if they were having some asbestos removed?

Would that not need to be done further away from the public though?

 

6 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Elfan safety - don't let the kiddiwinks near anything that might be dangerous like power tools.  And there'll be hell to pay if mum finds out you let them get their sticky little paws on anything covered in grease and grime, let alone get it on their clothes.

 

And we wonder why they grow up not knowing how to use a screwdriver.

Possibly - not entirely sure of the relevance to the part of my post that you quoted though.

 

A lot of using a screwdriver is basically shape recognition and fine motor skills, which are covered in the EYFS framework, and in several museum learning sessions and interactives aimed at that age group.

 

19 minutes ago, Dava said:

NRM has hardly anyone left who is qualified to do restoration work on large artefacts, as distinct from conservation. It has to be subcontracted or carried out by organisations such as heritage railways on items on loan.

I’m not sure that’s necessarily the problem that some people here are perhaps making it out to be though. If there’s lots of conservation work and cosmetic restorations to do it’s easier and more sensible to retain the in-house expertise to do it; I’m not sure the same applies to heavy mechanical overhauls in this instance. And of course there are smaller objects that need conservation work done on them, very different in size, materials etc. compared to a loco.

 

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

As with many things, loads of us see the NRM as a 'different place' to the thousands of people that actually go there. We are a minority that can satisfy our need to perhaps witness Engineering at a Heritage Railway. 

It's the same with many of our views on Heritage Railways as well. The successful ones run as well managed businesses. Businesses need to make money and many of those money making activities involve jolly activities, food, drink, and imaginative marketing. We may not like Purple Bulleids or inappropriate stock etc. However, punters want a good experience and will pay for it, especially if the  reputation of the success of said experiences is well sold.   

Striking the balance at somewhere like the NRM requires a Business Head that recognises the best ways to keep the place afloat.

If that means loads of seating and rather gimmicky selling areas then who am I to complain?

Phil

  

The NRM also has an educational mandate though, as a publicly funded museum. Which again, is generally not best achieved by creating a museum that exclusively appeals to railway enthusiasts with lots of specific pre-existing knowledge. Actually on that point, there is a lot of research around museum visitor demographics suggesting that the main factor that differentiates adults who visit from museums from those who don’t is not ethnicity, class or whatever but maximum level of educational attainment (with those who have less formal education less likely to visit). Thus the claim that in some cases museums that aim to educate are actually ‘super-serving the already educated’. This is usually discussed in a very different context (‘cultural capital’ and things like fine art galleries that are considered ‘high’ culture), but perhaps museums about specialised subjects (such as railways) that are only meaningful for those with existing knowledge of those subjects are a variation on the same issue?

[Bucoops]

2 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Would that not need to be done further away from the public though?

 

 

 

Not necessarily. It's preferable to do so but there's no rule against it as such, as long as regular leak monitoring is being carried out if it's a live enclosure.

[rab]

7 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

And we wonder why they grow up not knowing how to use a screwdriver.

Knowing how to use one; some don't know what a screwdriver is

(except perhaps a mixture of vodka and orange)!!

[009 micro modeller]

48 minutes ago, rab said:

Knowing how to use one; some don't know what a screwdriver is

(except perhaps a mixture of vodka and orange)!!

Fawlty Towers or Airplane? (They did the same joke but opposite ways round!) 😅

 

Actually, on a related note I see that some (working age) people seem to be completely unable to do basic things in an Excel spreadsheet (i.e. typing something into it and then moving down a row, not something complicated like a formula etc.), yet this doesn’t seem to generate the same level of outraged commentary.

[Peak]

8 hours ago, Wheatley said:

In the meantime, the last time I was there they were doing something with the 31 in the Great Hall that involved parking it over the inspection pit completely sealed up with  polythene sheets and gaffer tape. 

 

It seemed unnecessarily unkind to mention to the Explainer that it was a shame they didn't have some sort of workshop where this sort of thing could be done. 

It had been moved to the prep bay last time I was there which was on 14/2/24.

[Wheatley]

Yes it was there when I went past last week too. 

 

My guess was asbestos removal or grit blasting something, the Explainer "couldn't possibly comment ;-) ". 

 

[31A]

On 17/02/2024 at 22:07, phil-b259 said:

There is also the practical consideration that in these increasingly safety conscious times there are many workshop activities which cannot be undertaken with the public present or where allowing the public to view the process slows everything down and thus affects the earning potential of such a facility.

 

The view down into the Workshop from the Viewing Gallery was about as detached from any dangerous activities as it was possible to be (apart from possibly paint spraying but I think there is another area for things like that); I'm sure no H&S Inspector could have objected.  The public weren't really "present", it was like having an aerial view.  I loved going there when Sir Nigel Gresley was being restored; it was fascinating to be able to look down onto a dismantled A4, identify the parts lying around and seeing how it all went together, it was like seeing a 1:1 Scale kit on a workbench.  There were usually other locos from the Collection in there as well with various things being done to them.

 

Although I live nearby I haven't visited since the "Wonderlab" thing opened and I'm not sure I'm in a hurry to!

 

[phil-b259]

7 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

The view down into the Workshop from the Viewing Gallery was about as detached from any dangerous activities as it was possible to be (apart from possibly paint spraying but I think there is another area for things like that); I'm sure no H&S Inspector could have objected. 

 

It considerably complicated things like welding - in case you aren’t aware not only is exposure to it without protective PPE likely to blind you / give you arc eye but there are stringent rules about fume extraction following concerns about the carcinogenic nature of the fumes.

 

Now yes I agree that these things can be mitigate things with a hermetically sealed viewing gallery from which the public are excluded every time someone wants to use a Oxyacetylene torch, but the bottom line is such things get in the way of running a profitable and efficient enterprise - which is what any workshop facility at York would have to be.

[phil-b259]

14 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Although I live nearby I haven't visited since the "Wonderlab" thing opened and I'm not sure I'm in a hurry to!

 

The Wonderlabs target audience is CHILDREN - and is tied in with promoting STEM* learning at school with the aim of increasing the number of young people considering related industries as career paths

 

Adults may well enjoy some of its content (much like adults used to enjoy playing with the stuff in the ‘Launch Pad’ facility at London Science museum), but that is not the target audience for the facility or why it exists.

 

* Science, Technology, Engineering & Maths

 

[billy_anorak59]

9 hours ago, 31A said:

 I loved going there when Sir Nigel Gresley was being restored; it was fascinating to be able to look down onto a dismantled A4, identify the parts lying around and seeing how it all went together, it was like seeing a 1:1 Scale kit on a workbench.  There were usually other locos from the Collection in there as well with various things being done to them.

 

Here's a reminder for you then...