Fake Dapol Products

[Mallard60022]

14 hours ago, John M Upton said:

I did the same error of looking at the Dapol Facebook thread on the subject.  Good grief, that place really is the wild west of social media!!!!

If you think that's bad...don't bother going anywhere else. Even Railway related ones are full of very odd stuff.

Yes, I know I shouldn't even be there either.

P

[Michael Hodgson]

On 08/04/2024 at 10:42, Hal Nail said:

my first car was a 25 year old humber sceptre. Walnut dash and overdrve but kept cutting out. The AA man said to me, whilst peering under the bonnet, one advantage is it only has 5 moving parts :)

Were four of them the wheels, or was that the reason you called the AA?

[kevinlms]

On 07/04/2024 at 02:40, Steamport Southport said:

 

Try selling fake Louis Vuitton bags or Manchester United shirts on eBay and see how much they care!

 

Jason

I don't want genuine ones either!  😇

[kevinlms]

On 08/04/2024 at 04:36, Simond said:

 

 My point was that Dapol’s announcement stated that these products would not be warrantable, I merely said that they couldn’t tell the difference.  
 

How do you know that Dapol can't tell the difference between of their products and a 'fake' one?

[kevinlms]

3 hours ago, TheQ said:

You can buy from the UK and find it's a copy from elsewhere, I bought something from a UK seller "UK made" item..

When it arrived under the UK label was the original made in Pakistan label.

 

Selling an item with a genuine 'UK made' label - meaning that the label is made in the UK!

[SHMD]

19 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

How do you know that Dapol can't tell the difference between of their products and a 'fake' one?

 

They can. It's called "proof of purchase".

This thread really does show why "proof of purchase" (a receipt) is so important now - and increasingly so in the future.

 

All sympathies, and support, to Dapol and other victims of this type of crime.

 

 

Kev.

 

[kevinlms]

5 minutes ago, SHMD said:

 

They can. It's called "proof of purchase".

This thread really does show why "proof of purchase" (a receipt) is so important now - and increasingly so in the future.

 

All sympathies, and support, to Dapol and other victims of this type of crime.

 

 

Kev.

 

Yet increasingly many retailers ask if you want a receipt. Saying no, often doesn't save any paper, because the machine spits one out anyway and so they chuck it in the rubbish!

"Prove of purchase" can include a credit card extract of a statement.

 

But I was thinking that often, the quality of the finished product isn't the same, because of issues with the mould or the finishing. To someone familiar with an item, can usually tell straight away, if not genuine or substandard parts used.

Admittedly, Dapol haven't made any specific details available, but as others have suggested, it would be most unwise to highlight exactly what the issues is/are.

[SHMD]

The "resultant finish", of fake products, "may not be the same" because any defects/loss of fidelity does not matter to them as they fully intend not to support them in any way once sold - unlike a legit business which must factor in these costs.

 

 

Kev.

 

[pete_mcfarlane]

10 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

UK customers who did find the seller would probably do the math to add VAT and the handling charge and decide they'd be better off buying from a UK dealer (or in the EU from their German dealer). 

Some of the eBay seller's feedback is from people who got hit by VAT, presumably not having realised that this would happen (or noticed that the item was in China). So not everyone is that clued up. 

 

3 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

If you think that's bad...don't bother going anywhere else. Even Railway related ones are full of very odd stuff.

Yes, I know I shouldn't even be there either.

P

There is some good railway and railway modelling stuff on Facebook. Random examples that are in my most recent views:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/287574851395841

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063285277206

https://www.facebook.com/groups/178540989016069

 

But yeah, there is a lot of weirdness on there. The recent fun with Jacobite central door locking seems to have brought out a lot of badly spelled rants. I think it depends on how well moderated the pages are - some of them are a lot better than others. 

[JohnR]

Its hardly much of a saving, is it?

 

Looking on ebay, a Dapol O gauge pannier "From China" is listed as £178. The Royal Mail (or whoever delivers it to your door) will charge you for the VAT - 20% - taking the total up to £213. They may charge extra as a "handling fee" - Royal Mail's is £8, others pay be cheaper or more expensive.  The exact same model is in stock with a certain Sheffield based retailer for £223. 

 

So you are saving maybe £2, and loosing the customer support if something is wrong. Fault with the model, are you going to send it back to the seller in China?

 

 

[adb968008]

6 hours ago, TheQ said:

You can buy from the UK and find it's a copy from elsewhere, I bought something from a UK seller "UK made" item..

When it arrived under the UK label was the original made in Pakistan label.

 

Some years ago when doing a summer job we were called into the receiving warehouse to witness the opening of a case of whisky bottles.. three were missing from the sealed case. So you can guarantee 3 bottles from that case left the Bells factory by the back door.

I was all for believing this until I saw Bells mentioned.

 

if you said there were 3 extra, i’d be game.

 

Its a minging whisky is Bells.

Edited April 10 by adb968008

[sidmouth]

the internet has sadly become little more than a lawless wild west, where everyone's desire for a little piece of the action usually at the expense of someone else, manifests itself . Whether its grifters using urbex to boost their fledgling youtube/tiktok etc channels , to the cheaper than possible sellers on Farcebook marketplace who will take your £30 for that desirable model worth significantly more, as they know we are suckers for a bargain and the providence doesn't matter when it is that cheap. Ebay sellers look legit , good feedback so we assume authorised Dapol sellers but who happen to be in China . there is a very broad selection and what would constitute a good stockholding for a model shop available, so we are not talking about sneaking a couple of the production line 

 

Edited April 10 by sidmouth

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I was all for believing this until I saw Bells mentioned.

 

if you said there were 3 extra, i’d be game.

 

Its a minging whisky is Bells.

Theres a chap at Notre Dame likes it......

[wombatofludham]

22 hours ago, John M Upton said:

I did the same error of looking at the Dapol Facebook thread on the subject.  Good grief, that place really is the wild west of social media!!!!

 

19 hours ago, john new said:

Isn't the answer blindingly obvious? More will go for the low prices via the link than then avoid the site. Just buy via the normal UK retailers or from Dapol direct. As others have mentioned it is a bit down the line when the issue will really bite, these grey area purchases have been sold on, and need a repair of some kind. I have said grey area as I don't know whether they are unauthorised overruns or "replicas" made with alternative parts and QC standards. Either way Dapol lose out which isn't good news.

 

19 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

Not to people on Facebook it isn't.  If you look at the post on Dapol's page it's full of people demanding to be told exactly what to 'avoid'...

 

(And in fairness, there are some people talking sense on there as well). 

 

And people wonder why I have a dim view of the gene puddle bottom feeders who inhabit the world.  I just had a quick look at the Dapol Faceache page where Dapol explicitly say they have no authorised dealers who ship from China so if the Tatbay listing says "from China" then you would have thought even the densest of social media gene puddle slime would be able to cotton on. They just want spoon feeding so they can buy some, and then resell as "boxed, unused" back on Tatbay claiming the mark-up, to the unsuspecting having neatly circumvented the "from China" clue.

The Irish have a word for them - "Gougers"

[Kaput]

6 hours ago, SHMD said:

 

They can. It's called "proof of purchase".

This thread really does show why "proof of purchase" (a receipt) is so important now - and increasingly so in the future.

 

All sympathies, and support, to Dapol and other victims of this type of crime.

 

 

Kev.

 

 

 

Sadly in my experience most smaller model shops only give extremely basic receipts that have the amount of money spent listed but no details of any use on what the money was spent on.

[Colin_McLeod]

46 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

 

 

 

And people wonder why I have a dim view of the gene puddle bottom feeders who inhabit the world.  I just had a quick look at the Dapol Faceache page where Dapol explicitly say they have no authorised dealers who ship from China so if the Tatbay listing says "from China" then you would have thought even the densest of social media gene puddle slime would be able to cotton on. They just want spoon feeding so they can buy some, and then resell as "boxed, unused" back on Tatbay claiming the mark-up, to the unsuspecting having neatly circumvented the "from China" clue.

The Irish have a word for them - "Gougers"

WOW, they seem to have got under your skin lol 😉

 

By the way,  What are Faceache and Tatbay?

 

If you meant Facebook and Ebay, but could not bring yourself to use the proper names, then how can I place any confidence in your comments about what you describe as "gene puddle bottom feeders" or "social media gene puddle slime"?

 

Your post reads like some of the worst rants on the social media you appear to loath.

 

Please don't misuse the Irish slang "gouger"  It's inappropriate here.

 

 

"What is a gouger in Irish slang?

/ (ˈɡaʊdʒə) / noun. a person or tool that gouges. Irish dialect a low-class city lout."

 

 

 

.

Edited April 10 by Colin_McLeod
Typos

[SHMD]

4 minutes ago, Kaput said:

 

 

Sadly in my experience most smaller model shops only give extremely basic receipts that have the amount of money spent listed but no details of any use on what the money was spent on.

 

I was thinking that too, plus the fact that some receipt materials used just fade away - usually years before I even start the project that the receipt paid for!

 

 

Kev.

 

[Colin_McLeod]

10 minutes ago, Kaput said:

 

 

Sadly in my experience most smaller model shops only give extremely basic receipts that have the amount of money spent listed but no details of any use on what the money was spent on.

 

3 minutes ago, SHMD said:

 

I was thinking that too, plus the fact that some receipt materials used just fade away - usually years before I even start the project that the receipt paid for!

 

 

Kev.

 

 

This could be an advantage if you can't find the receipt.  😉

 

Or you can buy and pay on line and have full proof of purchase with details.

[SHMD]

27 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

 

This could be an advantage if you can't find the receipt.  😉

 

Or you can buy and pay on line and have full proof of purchase with details.

 

I've found that not all things are available online forever.

Can you still get a "Hattons" receipt online?

 

 

Kev.

[adb968008]

28 minutes ago, SHMD said:

 

I've found that not all things are available online forever.

Can you still get a "Hattons" receipt online?

 

 

Kev.

I downloaded my full history of Hattons reciepts at Christmas after I had a prophecy one night in November.

 

I subsequently did it for all my online model railway accounts.

 

whilst its impossible to go back to 1970’s for receipts, having the better part of most of my receipts back 25+ years puts the balance in my favour should I be requested for proof. I’d reccomend doing it.. cloud storage costs nowt on your iphone.

 

 

Edited April 10 by adb968008

[Simond]

7 hours ago, kevinlms said:

How do you know that Dapol can't tell the difference between of their products and a 'fake' one?

Kevin,

 

I do not know.

 

As I originally explained, my supposition is that the so-called “fake” products are made on the same production lines from exactly the same materials, in the same moulds, with the same paint and transfers, probably by the same staff, and are packed in the same boxes as “genuine” ones.  They are exactly & precisely the same.  They are not really “fake”.
 

The difference is they have been sold through a different & unauthorised route, (the “back door” if you will) meaning that a) they compete with, and impact sales of legitimate product, and b) Dapol and its authorised resellers make no margin on these sales, both of which impact Dapol’s recovery of their investments, and profitability, which none of us want, I expect.

 

On this basis, as has been noted, and as I noted in my original post, the only way that they can be differentiated from those sold by an authorised sales outlet, is by the sales receipt, and only then if it is itemised.

 

I doubt that Dapol would want to give a great deal of information, it wouldn’t help them.

 

atb

Simon

[adb968008]

14 minutes ago, Simond said:

Kevin,

 

I do not know.

 

As I originally explained, my supposition is that the so-called “fake” products are made on the same production lines from exactly the same materials, in the same moulds, with the same paint and transfers, probably by the same staff, and are packed in the same boxes as “genuine” ones.  They are exactly & precisely the same.  They are not really “fake”.
 

The difference is they have been sold through a different & unauthorised route, (the “back door” if you will) meaning that a) they compete with, and impact sales of legitimate product, and b) Dapol and its authorised resellers make no margin on these sales, both of which impact Dapol’s recovery of their investments, and profitability, which none of us want, I expect.

 

On this basis, as has been noted, and as I noted in my original post, the only way that they can be differentiated from those sold by an authorised sales outlet, is by the sales receipt, and only then if it is itemised.

 

I doubt that Dapol would want to give a great deal of information, it wouldn’t help them.

 

atb

Simon

 

right now the thing keeping them out of the country is price.

 

It also looks like several sellers are not listing them in the UK or for UK shipping, as theres loads more on intl sites.

 

But if they cut the price below the vat import threshold, I suspect many more may find their way in.

what concerns me is laundering… if a faulty one comes in a buyer could buy from a reputable store, then return the other…

 

which circles me back to my point of having a serial number on the chassis, and on the box, added at the distributor in the Uk before going to the trade…. Its going to be very hard to undo a screw covered by a warranty seal, and keep the seal intact, and hence the warranty intact. QR code scanning them out of the door also records which retailer got which, and thus the added security of not seeing a return coming from a different retailer, potentially via a s/h route marked as a faulty new return.

 

Edited April 10 by adb968008

[maico]

On 07/04/2024 at 21:16, adb968008 said:

Just an observation, but last week when I first saw this, I was in Poland and saw an ebay intl site.

i saw literally dozens of sellers offering hundreds of these.

Back in the UK i see less than 10 models offered with only a few choices by just 2 sellers.

 

Checking my Polish server tonight, they are all still out there so I guess they are staying off the UK.

 

 

You sure about that?

 

I turned on my proxy and went to eBay.pl and the O-gauge Dapol was the same tank loco range as shown on Ebay uk. In other words, the Chinese vendor has just ticked the global shipping option. He has not made any decisions about people fighting in the streets in Gdańsk for British outline O! 

[adb968008]

14 minutes ago, maico said:

 

You sure about that?

 

I turned on my proxy and went to eBay.pl and the O-gauge Dapol was the same tank loco range as shown on Ebay uk. In other words, the Chinese vendor has just ticked the global shipping option. He has not made any decisions about people fighting in the streets in Gdańsk for British outline O! 

I’m not going to list the vendors, but theres many more…. Same loco range but a lot more sellers… some are luky’er than others, try shipping to Poland, not the Uk, as they arent shipping here… ive counted 10 different sellers just now.

Edited April 10 by adb968008

[maico]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I’m not going to list the vendors, but theres many more…. Same loco range but a lot more sellers… some are luky’er than others.

 

This sounds like arbitrage. People list hundreds of items on Ebay based on being able to obtain stock from sites like Amazon. They add a small percentage mark-up. They only purchase the stock if they have a confirmed sale. There is software available to do this. I bet there is only one unauthorized source of Dapol O gauge in China.