BR Dia.1/801 Fish/Parcels Vans from Rapido Trains UK

[BMacdermott]

Well done, Rapido, on this announcement! Very welcome!👍

 

Brian

[Pteremy]

22 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

 

Seeing some of the above comments - try reading the whole thread and using Paul's web-site - most of the answers as to vehicle type / liveries etc will be there somewhere ................................

 

Yes research is fun, whether on line or in books. But if a manufacturer is offering a range of liveries, some with quite subtle variations, I am sure they are doing so on the basis of their own detailed research, including photographic evidence. So why not share some of that information, including published source references, with us?? It is not as if they are giving away their own intellectual property. It evidences the efforts they are going to to achieve a high degree of accuracy. And it allows us to make better informed choices in our preorders.

[Captain Kernow]

4 hours ago, Downendian said:

the glaring roof profile error on my Hornby versions

Nothing against you, Neil, but I would be grateful if someone could actually illustrate what this 'glaring error' actually looks like. My Hornby version looks like what I think it should look like...

 

Does it have an angled, 'gabled-ended' roof? (like a salt wagon) - no it does not.

 

Does it have a flat roof, like a cheap 1970s extension? - no it does not.

 

Is it a wagon from the Renaissance  period with a Mansard roof? - no it isn't.

 

Ignorance used to be bliss, until the internet came along...

 

[slow8dirty]

Here's a link to the the old Wind cutter blog where he discusses his issues (with the van). There's a comparison shot between Parkside, Hornby and Wrenn end profiles on there. The Wrenn example holds up pretty well. 

https://windcutter.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/the-flying-kipper/

Not sure how glaring these are at normal viewing distant, but the Rapido ones are a not previously covered diagram which is very useful for a Scottish harbour layout that would benefit from DCC smell as much as sound!

Now for someone (kit or rtr)to cover the INSIXFISH examples I've seen at Mallaig?

Edited April 21 by slow8dirty

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, slow8dirty said:

Now for someone (kit or rtr)to cover the GW examples I've seen at Mallaig?

 

The INSIXFISH has been done as an excellent etched kit by Macgeordie of this parish.

 

CJI.

[Downendian]

3 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Nothing against you, Neil, but I would be grateful if someone could actually illustrate what this 'glaring error' actually looks like. My Hornby version looks like what I think it should look like...

 

Does it have an angled, 'gabled-ended' roof? (like a salt wagon) - no it does not.

 

Does it have a flat roof, like a cheap 1970s extension? - no it does not.

 

Is it a wagon from the Renaissance  period with a Mansard roof? - no it isn't.

 

Ignorance used to be bliss, until the internet came along...

 

Hi Tim,

as quoted Ian’s wind cutter review sums up nicely the  roof profile difference between the Hornby, Parkside and Wrenn models. It’s quite apparent when the models are rostered in the same rake. 
Neil

Edited April 21 by Downendian

[C126]

Did they ever carry the T.O.P.S. code "VFV" as described by Colin Marsden in his Rolling Stock Recognition book on wagons, please?  I can find no trace of this on @hmrspaul 's photo web-site.

[cctransuk]

4 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Nothing against you, Neil, but I would be grateful if someone could actually illustrate what this 'glaring error' actually looks like. My Hornby version looks like what I think it should look like...

 

Does it have an angled, 'gabled-ended' roof? (like a salt wagon) - no it does not.

 

Does it have a flat roof, like a cheap 1970s extension? - no it does not.

 

Is it a wagon from the Renaissance  period with a Mansard roof? - no it isn't.

 

Ignorance used to be bliss, until the internet came along...

 

 

Since you've asked - despite apparently not wanting to know - the arc of the roof curve is far too deep.

 

A comparison of the model with a photo of the prototype will reveal all.

 

Well - you did ask ......!

 

CJI.

[The Johnster]

I did not know that, and now I do, though in this case me and the van never really hit it off and the 'design clever' running means it is rarely used anyway, so no matter; I will be more than happy to give it an exciting opportunity of a new career in landfill and replace it with the new Rapido, despite preferring the plain side/end look of the Hornby model.  There have been several such models over the years which I have given up on due to basic inaccuracies, which are particularly annoying.  A poorly detailed model that is dimensionally correct can always be worked up but this sort of thing renders it effectively useless on my layout.  The trouble is when a model is fairly near accurate but a bit off, so that the likes of me looks at it in the shop and comes over all 'me wantee', to find out later that the model is a bit of a dog; eventually I learned to do a bit of research first and keep my money in my pocket until I know what I'm buying. 

 

Dogs that have caught me out in the past include:-

 

.Bachmann-chassis Hornby 2721, bunker too large.

.Dapol Fruit D, ex-Wrenn/HD, too wide.

.Dapol steel open with chain pocket, ditto provenance, sides too high, sold as mineral wagon.

.Dapol cattle/ale van, again ditto provenance, incorrect wheelbase.  I am not sure that there is any example of a correctly dimensioned RTR cattle van.

.Neighbour's snappy yappy Jack Russell, all teeth and attitude.  Doesn't like me coz I bark back at him...

 

 

 

Edited April 21 by The Johnster

[Captain Kernow]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

Since you've asked - despite apparently not wanting to know - the arc of the roof curve is far too deep.

Well, yes I did want to know and then again, I would have preferred not knowing and assuming that the sniggering in front of my layout was due to something else...!

 

Anyway, I've only got the one and am unlikely to get any of the Rapido ones.

 

Oh, hang on, didn't someone say they were fairly common in the Bristol area in the blue era?....

 

[slow8dirty]

13 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Oh, hang on, didn't someone say they were fairly common in the Bristol area in the blue era?....

 

😄That'll teach you to go asking innocent questions on here!

[Porcy Mane]

18 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Oh, hang on, didn't someone say they were fairly common in the Bristol area in the blue era?....

 

You could always use the Hornby fish vans to create the Flying Kipper.

 

 

[Downendian]

30 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Well, yes I did want to know and then again, I would have preferred not knowing and assuming that the sniggering in front of my layout was due to something else...!

 

Anyway, I've only got the one and am unlikely to get any of the Rapido ones.

 

Oh, hang on, didn't someone say they were fairly common in the Bristol area in the blue era?....

 

There you go Tim- lovely WR 1/801s including a delightful shot of a Hymek at Temple Meads in 1974.

BR Blue Spot fish vans - a question of numbers

Neil

 

Edited April 21 by Downendian
Link

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I did not know that, and now I do, though in this case me and the van never really hit it off and the 'design clever' running means it is rarely used anyway, so no matter; I will be more than happy to give it an exciting opportunity of a new career in landfill and replace it with the new Rapido, despite preferring the plain side/end look of the Hornby model.  There have been several such models over the years which I have given up on due to basic inaccuracies, which are particularly annoying.  A poorly detailed model that is dimensionally correct can always be worked up but this sort of thing renders it effectively useless on my layout.  The trouble is when a model is fairly near accurate but a bit off, so that the likes of me looks at it in the shop and comes over all 'me wantee', to find out later that the model is a bit of a dog; eventually I learned to do a bit of research first and keep my money in my pocket until I know what I'm buying. 

 

Dogs that have caught me out in the past include:-

 

.Bachmann-chassis Hornby 2721, bunker too large.

.Dapol Fruit D, ex-Wrenn/HD, too wide.

.Dapol steel open with chain pocket, ditto provenance, sides too high, sold as mineral wagon.

.Dapol cattle/ale van, again ditto provenance, incorrect wheelbase.  I am not sure that there is any example of a correctly dimensioned RTR cattle van.

.Neighbour's snappy yappy Jack Russell, all teeth and attitude.  Doesn't like me coz I bark back at him...

 

 

 

 

The only proper r-t-r Cattle wagons are the Hornby Southern ones, everything else has significant errors. 

 

Everything in your final list, plus the Wrenn/Dapol fish van has its origins in the Hornby Dublo Super Detail range which were all deliberately made over-wide to fit the rubbish existing chassis castings from the tinplate stuff.

 

They all looked reasonable until you put a ruler anywhere near them. Such a wasted opportunity, tooling up for expensive injection mouldings and not the cheaper low-pressure ones for chassis castings.

 

John  

[Dominion]

The Oxford Rail LNER cattle wagon is dimensionally correct, and looks right on either side, just not both sides at the same time (which is very hard to see). One side should be a mirror image of the other. I changed one van to have a mirrored side but left the rest as they look fine which ever way you put them on the track ! 
 

Having designed much of the long wheelbase LNER fish van I hope Rapido will tool one in the next release … pretty please with a cherry on top ???

[Halvarras]

I saw these vans working up through Cornwall quite often in the early 1970s, always at the head of the 6B59 Ponsandane to Tavistock Junction freight service. The topic @Downendian links to above suggests that these were in use for National Carriers Ltd (NCL) traffic. I took very few photos which included them but here are a couple dated 21st & 23rd May 1975 when 25306 was in charge on both days - first approaching Saveock, the summit between Chacewater and Truro, and then passing 47247 on the down 1B45 ('CRE' I believe) at Truro.

 

The first shot appears to be a Diagram 800 followed by two 801s......

 

......and this one has two 801s followed by two 800s. I think!

[Southernman46]

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

.Neighbour's snappy yappy Jack Russell, all teeth and attitude.  Doesn't like me coz I bark back at him...

 

I've found most are jerks ........................... 😬

Except anyone's on here who happens to be loved and adored 😉

[Southernman46]

5 hours ago, Downendian said:

There you go Tim- lovely WR 1/801s including a delightful shot of a Hymek at Temple Meads in 1974.

BR Blue Spot fish vans - a question of numbers

Neil

 

What a great thread  - worth a look just for the photos of the 22 & 42 doubleheading at Cockwood and the Western on a complete train of Herring

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Southernman46 said:

I've found most are jerks ........................... 😬

Except anyone's on here who happens to be loved and adored 😉

 

Had one as a teenager, great little guy, natural comedian, highly affectionate.  B*gger for pulling on the lead, though, never really got the hang of that.

[Enterprisingwestern]

16 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I did not know that, and now I do, though in this case me and the van never really hit it off and the 'design clever' running means it is rarely used anyway, so no matter; I will be more than happy to give it an exciting opportunity of a new career in landfill and replace it with the new Rapido, despite preferring the plain side/end look of the Hornby model.  There have been several such models over the years which I have given up on due to basic inaccuracies, which are particularly annoying.  A poorly detailed model that is dimensionally correct can always be worked up but this sort of thing renders it effectively useless on my layout.  The trouble is when a model is fairly near accurate but a bit off, so that the likes of me looks at it in the shop and comes over all 'me wantee', to find out later that the model is a bit of a dog; eventually I learned to do a bit of research first and keep my money in my pocket until I know what I'm buying. 

 

Dogs that have caught me out in the past include:-

 

.Bachmann-chassis Hornby 2721, bunker too large.

.Dapol Fruit D, ex-Wrenn/HD, too wide.

.Dapol steel open with chain pocket, ditto provenance, sides too high, sold as mineral wagon.

.Dapol cattle/ale van, again ditto provenance, incorrect wheelbase.  I am not sure that there is any example of a correctly dimensioned RTR cattle van.

.Neighbour's snappy yappy Jack Russell, all teeth and attitude.  Doesn't like me coz I bark back at him...

 

 

 

 

It would be quicker to list the Dapol wagons of that era which are correct.

 

Mike.

[Dunsignalling]

14 hours ago, Dominion said:

The Oxford Rail LNER cattle wagon is dimensionally correct, and looks right on either side, just not both sides at the same time (which is very hard to see). One side should be a mirror image of the other. I changed one van to have a mirrored side but left the rest as they look fine which ever way you put them on the track ! 
 

Having designed much of the long wheelbase LNER fish van I hope Rapido will tool one in the next release … pretty please with a cherry on top ???

 

If you mean the cattle wagon, can we have the 10' wheelbase version, please. The 9-footers became extinct (or very nearly so) between 1945 and 1948 and there's no evidence of any lasting long enough to receive BR livery.

 

I have seen one picture of WB 9' 0" ( and XP! ) markings in the mid fifties but, on closer inspection, they turned out to be incorrectly applied to a 10' wheelbase vehicle.

 

John 

Edited April 22 by Dunsignalling

[JohnR]

Given the problems with Hornby's 1/800 van, heres hoping Rapido follow up there 1/801 van with a model of that too. 

[Fat Controller]

18 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Well, yes I did want to know and then again, I would have preferred not knowing and assuming that the sniggering in front of my layout was due to something else...!

 

Anyway, I've only got the one and am unlikely to get any of the Rapido ones.

 

Oh, hang on, didn't someone say they were fairly common in the Bristol area in the blue era?....

 

I can confirm they were fairly common at BTM in 1974/5, working out of the parcel depot to to the west of the station (Pylle Hill?) One or two carried a 'V' TOPS code, though I can't remember the second or third characters.

[stovepipe]

On 20/04/2024 at 11:33, Tony P said:

I believe 6E47 returned north as 6S64 14:25 Kings Cross Goods to Millerhill and routed via the joint line. Often good for a LM class 40.

1975 may have been it's final year, unless it was rerouted via the ecml. My final sighting was in the October.

 

Tony 

 

 

A post by mark54 on the thread linked above says the AB - KX fish train ended on 5 Jan 1976. I must have missed that at the time!

 

 

 

[The Johnster]

9 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

It would be quicker to list the Dapol wagons of that era which are correct.

 

Mike.

 

Quite.  But at least some are honestly and obviously incorrect, like the minerals with stretched bodies on the wrong wheelbase (Hornby, Airfix, and Lima were guitly of this as well).