K2yhaven

[P.C.M]

Hi Andy,

 

I used to go down to Keyhaven as a kid, Crabbing off the bridge that leads to the spit.

 

I like how you have worked in the new section with the old layout I think it should work well. Have you got enough room for a push pull Crompton and TC? Looks like it would go close. I remember seeing the odd pusher on the Lymo branch.

 

I was in the UK back in Feb for my brothers 40th and took a pic of one of the new ferries, I think the older ones had more character

plus you have a slight chance of fitting the older ones in.

 

Cheers Peter.

[Jack]

A few comments on the plan if i may ...

 

1) A Shorts Sunderland should scale out to a 17.8" wingspan, with a length of 13.4" ... so technically it should fit ... even if their terminal was further up the coast. I'm sure you can squeeze an extra couple of inches on the side!! You could always take a leaf out of Andy Hopper's book and have it as an additional add on.

 

2) Although not of the same area or OD, the Kent coast scheme saw third rail in situ long before steam ended ... so i reckon you can get away with 3rd rail and steam without any problems.

 

3) Having all your roads off the Mk.1 Keyhaven flowing straight onto the fiddle yard, along with the goods yard and the station throat will mean some interesting operation at exhibitions. It will require some well timed maneuvres to be able to shunt and run the station. is there no way you can get a seperate headshunt in on one side or the other?

 

4) Will you be able to retain your lovely fiddleyard entrance at the top of this thread?

[Andy Y]

I'm confuddled, are you rebuilding the original from scratch or 'just' doing the left hand portion to sit alongside the original layout?

 

The original will donate some parts (after its final show in November) towards the complete replacement of the quayside which should be similar in character apart from the loss of the problematic and aesthetically jarring points.

 

 

Looking at your geography, how does the water get from the Saltings to the sea and vice versa?

 

I'm considering whether it's viable to have a culvert beneath the station approach from the balancing lake to the harbour with sluice gates as below:

 

 

 

Have you got enough room for a push pull Crompton and TC? Looks like it would go close.

 

Sadly not, the sector plate will be 3' long although a Crompton may turn up on occasional Thunderbird duties.

 

 

3) Having all your roads off the Mk.1 Keyhaven flowing straight onto the fiddle yard, along with the goods yard and the station throat will mean some interesting operation at exhibitions. It will require some well timed maneuvres to be able to shunt and run the station. is there no way you can get a seperate headshunt in on one side or the other?

 

4) Will you be able to retain your lovely fiddleyard entrance at the top of this thread?

 

You're right Jack, it could be erm 'challenging' but I'm hoping to arrange the sector plate roads and layout roads so that it may be possible to run off 2 major roads onto the sector plate at the same time. I should be able to keep the nondescript pipe bridge ( or similar) either there or on the station approach as there's not many bridges down that way to hide the rest of the world.

[Dave777]

Oooh, bit of Blue Pullman at the bottom of the gates there

[cromptonnut]

I drove across that bridge on Thursday evening! Wondered what it looked like from the other side...

[Andy Y]

I am saying.... nothing. But that's just you.

[John B]

I'd put a Beaver in the harbour, but that's just me ....

 

I thought a "Thames Whale" was more your style...

[PaulRhB]

Rather than trying to cram in a Catalina or Sunderland, (I was expecting the Spruce Goose to be the next suggestion!), why not have a small barge with a recovered ditched plane on board. A small crane could also be included and it makes a difference from a fishing boat while only using a similar space. You can assume the tug has gone off elsewhere.

There was a small floatplane in the airfix range years ago but I've not seen one for years. Mind you with the IoW so close one of the early hovercraft . . . . . . . . .

[2ManySpams]

Oooh, bit of Blue Pullman at the bottom of the gates there

 

Thus satisfying the new rule that every thread has to be about that (those) darned BP(s)!! Somebody wake me when it's all over

[ColinW]

Rather than trying to cram in a Catalina or Sunderland, (I was expecting the Spruce Goose to be the next suggestion!), why not have a small barge with a recovered ditched plane on board. A small crane could also be included and it makes a difference from a fishing boat while only using a similar space. You can assume the tug has gone off elsewhere.

There was a small floatplane in the airfix range years ago but I've not seen one for years. Mind you with the IoW so close one of the early hovercraft . . . . . . . . .

 

A Grumman Widgeon seaplane might be big enough to fit in, know Airfix did a kit of that a few years ago, you might be able to find one. As far as I can find out though Seaplanes last flew from Calshot in 1958, so it would have to be a private company aircraft for your era Andy.

[ColinW]

According to wiki, there's one "stored" just along the coast at Lee on the Solent. Which was news to me!

 

 

 

What state it's in, I've no idea. It is ex-RAF, so maybe a candidate. RAF Calshot (the flying boat base) closed in 1961, though...

 

Incidentally, the Calshot lifeboat recently snagged itself on, and pulled up, the propellor of a sunk Blackburn..

The Catalina at HMS Daedalus (Lee-on-Solent) was the one that unfortunately crashed into the Solent a few years ago, killing the Mayor of Southampton. It has been in Daedalus since then as a private group sought to put it back into the sky, but finances have prevented from doing so.

 

Colin

[2ManySpams]

The Catalina at HMS Daedalus (Lee-on-Solent) was the one that unfortunately crashed into the Solent a few years ago, killing the Mayor of Southampton. It has been in Daedalus since then as a private group sought to put it back into the sky, but finances have prevented from doing so.

 

Colin

 

If the date on this article is right then it was 12 years ago yesterday: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/140698.stm

[Coombe Barton]

I'm considering whether it's viable to have a culvert beneath the station approach from the balancing lake to the harbour with sluice gates as below:

Have a look here - http://www.soton.ac.uk/~imw/jpg-Lymington/9LYM-Paddle-Mayflower-m.jpg

 

That's part of http://www.soton.ac.uk/~imw/Lymington-Keyhaven.htm

 

I think that the flow would be very fast and produce a helluva lot of scour for your solution - see how wide the bridge in in the pic I've posted. In that area there's a 3.5 metre tidal range with two highs and two lows because of the Isle of Wight, reducing the time between high and low and giving a fast ingress and egress.

[Suddaby]

As Leander is on holiday, which Rochdale would you like to bring it to for a first outing..........?

 

Looks good - and that's a serious offer!

 

Kevin

[BlackRat]

Andy, nice one, progress already!

 

I need to grow a set and ditch the old layout instead of constant faffing and tweaking!

 

The plans all there, it's just having the balls to tear it all up and go for it.

 

Like I said, I think I need to grow a set! lol

 

Look forward to seeing this one develop and at Taunton!

[John B]

The Catalina at HMS Daedalus (Lee-on-Solent) was the one that unfortunately crashed into the Solent a few years ago, killing the Mayor of Southampton. It has been in Daedalus since then as a private group sought to put it back into the sky, but finances have prevented from doing so.

 

Colin

 

It's no longer at Daedalus - subsequent research yesterday evening (never trust wiki!) found that it flew under "ferry" license to North Weald in December 2009. The most recent information I read was that further work was being done at North Weald to ready it for a flight to a new home in the USA...

[2ManySpams]

Have a look here - http://www.soton.ac.uk/~imw/jpg-Lymington/9LYM-Paddle-Mayflower-m.jpg

 

That's part of http://www.soton.ac.uk/~imw/Lymington-Keyhaven.htm

 

I think that the flow would be very fast and produce a helluva lot of scour for your solution - see how wide the bridge in in the pic I've posted. In that area there's a 3.5 metre tidal range with two highs and two lows because of the Isle of Wight, reducing the time between high and low and giving a fast ingress and egress.

 

I caught the ferry from Lymington to Yarmouth last week and can't believe how much the terminal at Lymington has changed from your colourised postcard!

[yellowvanman]

looking good Andy , I was sat out side `The Gun ` the other week ( a bit on the expensive side), I see a Pub on your plans, love the idea of a sea plane and/or ferry ..

[John B]

Some nice, nostalgic pictures of the Yarmouth ferries here

 

The mortal remains of MV Freshwater were to be found, half-cut, at the closed Garston shipyard on the Mersey in 2008.

 

[Andy Y]

I see a Pub on your plans,

 

Banged to rights! I do have a collection of snaps that should come in handy.

 

 

 

 

 

It's amazing what you've got to keep half an eye open for to complete a model although the research is enjoyable in case I decided to model the interior.

 

 

 

 

 

[Andy Y]

The mortal remains of MV Freshwater were to be found, half-cut, at the closed Garston shipyard on the Mersey in 2008.

 

 

A big wow from me there John! I'd no idea that it was still on piece (sort of). That sent me off to Google Earth as I'm up that way in a couple of weeks and now hoping that it hasn't deteriorated too much.

 

 

 

I'd previously estimated the scaled length at around 700mm but it comes in at 580mm and 160mm across the beam according to Google's ruler. It looks like I need to check the tide tables, pack the wellies and I may be able to get other significant measurements.

 

I wonder where it went after BR to acquire the red/white & blue funnel paint job?

 

I'm seriously grateful for that lead.

 

 

 

 

 

[John B]

 

I wonder where it went after BR to acquire the red/white & blue funnel paint job?

 

 

Western Ferries, Glasgow - after withdrawl from the Lymington run, it was sold to Western Ferries, renamed "Sound of Seil" and operated for quite a few years crossing the Clyde between McInroy's Point (near Gourock) and Hunters' Quay (near Dunoon).

 

Glad to have been of assistance and good luck finding the remains! I'll PM you a few more links to the hulk..

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

How very tempting, not sure many were about late 60s though. Maybe I just beef up the sound of a plane in the background soundtrack.

 

There were no seaplanes about in the sixties Andy. The regulations governing civil ones were (and still are) draconian, the Royal Navy was going carrier borne and the RAF was never overly interested once the land based planes could cross the Atlantic from Shannon to St John's and the idea of short take off and landing was embraced.

 

Jets were introduced in service around '59 '60 and no-one has produced a successful jet seaplane although the Russians have got close with the Berievs.

 

If you really want a plane and the right size and era (just) a Supermarine Walrus, ex RAF air sea rescue, might suit. I think Airfix did a kit years ago. Certainly the DH Beaver was around but none on floats and none civil AFAIK. The Grumman Widgeon was not on the UK civil register at that time and never made it into the military over here.

 

I think the Catalinas were lend lease and nearly all went back to the States.

 

The Sunderlands were all based in Ireland I think.

 

Aluminium, magnesium, salt water and high tech, fragile piston engines just don't mix. The Sunderlands flew from freshwater loughs. The Walrus was wood and canvas.

['CHARD]

If you really want a plane and the right size and era (just) a Supermarine Walrus, ex RAF air sea rescue, might suit. I think Airfix did a kit years ago.

 

Thanks to Hornby's expansive attitude it's contemporary all over again:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-AIRFIX-KIT-A02002-SUPERMARINE-WALRUS-MkII-/390214584654?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&hash=item5ada9a094e#ht_1805wt_1137

 

(just one example, no connection...)

[Brinkly]

Very nice plan Andy, looks like there is a lot of fun to be had with it! I was thinking it could almost be a Harrap plan with the amount of shunting!

 

Regards,

 

Nick.