In search of icons

[Diesel Dayz]

So you've had a tip off about the Skalecraft future release of the Forth Rail Bridge in 'OO' ............................................................... Now that would be impressive and would require a very large box

 

Edit - If my maths is correct this would be over 33 metres long in 00

 

 

That'll be one for the rivet counters . Will it come with faded paint at one end and some little painter chappies

[MarkSG]

The Garratts would be an obvious choice - even though many people may well not have a clue what they are, they certainly have the "wow" factor when you see a model of one.

 

Something else I'd like to see would be RTR versions of really early stuff - like Rocket and the other Rainhill trialists, plus Puffing Billy and the previously mentioned Lion (aka Titfield Thunderbolt). Obviously, these are going to be of interest more to collectors rather than layout builders, but they'd make a great working diorama or minimum space layout. And you really can't get much more iconic than Rocket.

 

Also, I'd quite like a proper (ie, not Toby-faced) J70. Coming from East Anglia myself, I've always fancied building a layout based either on the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway or the East Anglian dockyards, and this would be ideal. OK, so maybe this is veering a little too much towards wishlist territory, but tram engines are certainly iconic and, thanks to the Rev W Audrey, well-known.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Here's 10 from me, in no particular order

 

Pre-Grouping: MR Spinner

GW Star

GC 2-8-0

 

Big Four: A4 + Siver Jubilee articulated stock

SR 4-SUB EMU

 

BR: Standard 9F

HAA MGR hopper

Class 47

16t mineral wagon

HST

[HerbertHopkins]

I can't help thinking that the 'Jones Goods' of the Highland Railway is pretty iconic. It was, after all, the first 4-6-0 to run in these islands and this wheel arrangement subsequently became the most commonplace, after the ubiquitous 0-6-0 of course.

[Ian J.]

I thought of another one: L&SWR Adams Radial 4-4-2

[2ManySpams]

I thought of another one: L&SWR Adams Radial 4-4-2

 

Ooh yes, that gets my vote as a classic too. Same sort of reasons as the Beattie Well Tank - an old loco that held on in a niche role against a background of modernisation. The Terrier, for the same reason yet again, would be on my Southern icon list too. For sheer oddness then Bulleid's Q1 gets put on the list too.

 

The BR 9F, Stanier Duchess, LNER A4 would certainly be on my non-SR steam list. All big impressive stuff that even a non-steam head couldn't resist admitting they are something special. Never really keen on Stanier's Princess - front end always looked a bit odd to me. Much further down the food chain, the ubiquitous GWR Pannier tank deserves a place as an icon.

[Horsetan]

...I'd also second 'Duke of Gloucester', but in its current improved form, rather than it's original BR operation. Certainly it seems to be something of an iconic preservation item today....

 

Thirded.

 

I'd also like to think someone might take the risk of bringing out a 4mm scale RTR USATC S160 2-8-0 and USA 0-6-0T as a commemorative wartime twinpack. But we know that'll never happen.....

[John B]

I, too, would like to see iconic trains such as the Silver Jubilee, Coronation, various CORs, SUBs, BELs and PULs, APT-E/P etc produced. It's a logical step and one that the US market has been following for a while..

 

As for iconic locomotives, there's plenty in the National Collections* to keep manufacturers busy for a while. "Races to the North" packages including Hardwicke, Stirling Singles have already been mentioned. A "Rainhill Trials" theme would be different, and, dare I say, sell well.. On a similar theme, how about the Stockton & Darlington - chaldron wagons, Locomotion & Derwent, Stephenson "Long Boiler" 0-6-0s.. And then there's Broad Gauge..

 

 

 

* Including the Glasgow / SRPS collections. I'd dearly love a quality Jones Goods and GNSR D40..

[Sidecar Racer]

How about the GWR 'The Great Bear'? A one off that I think most of us modellers and railway hobbyists know about (if not the general public), though of course it didn't last that long in 4-6-2 formation.

 

 

Thats the one that does it for me as a GWR modeller , the first Pacific to be built by any railway company ,

okay so it was not a 100% success , but what a mighty machine .

 

Also CoT , as others have said , it is only one of a class but it has that place in history along with

Mallard , who can resist a record setter .

 

I too am somewhat taken with the Garrett , but I cant find an excuse to run one .

[Diesel Dayz]

Is this turning into yet another wish list?

[great northern]

Is this turning into yet another wish list?

 

Not if I can avoid it! I've been just watching to see how things develop, but perhaps now is the time to summarise. There really doesn't seem to be anything which really jumps out, at least as far as locomotive are concerned. Some which are mentioned clearly qualify as icons - the A4 for instance, but it is already produced, and to a very high standard. What I was looking for was things which haven't so far been considered, but which might sell in the same kind of numbers as, for example, City of Truro.

 

I can see why a lot of things have been mentioned. To take just one example, Max Stafford mentions Cardean. I agree that it was a very famous engine in its time, and that it is still remembered by some all these years later. The problem though is that it was withdrawn a very long time ago. Had it been preserved.... well that might be a different matter. The same IMO would apply to things like The Great Bear.

 

The one steam loco mentioned which gets my antennae twitching is a Garrett. Has that got the impact and the aura which might work? It would need to sell a lot to collectors though, as it would be difficult to fit in on the average sized layout.

 

Trying to be less lococentric, the suggestion of iconic strucrures is an interesting one. Viaducts and bridges certainly can have the "wow" factor in, literally, a very big way. I'm not sure about the Forth Bridge, as I can't see many modellers having the space to accomodate it, but what about some of the viaducts on the Settle and Carlisle? Or Monsal Dale as another example?

 

As to coaching stock, it occurs to me that catering vehicles are sadly lacking. Being an ECML man, Gresley restauarant cars immediately spring to mind. What others are there that could have a big impact? And how about some articulated coaching stock? There was a fair amount of it, and as far as I know it isn't represented at all. Again, I'll stick to what I know. The LNER had three very iconic trains, the Silver Jubilee Coronation and West Riding. Cost considerations immediately raise their ugly heads if one considers doing the whole rake, but post war they got split up, and could be found in some very unlikely places, so might a twin set or two be a feasible proposition?

 

More thoughts on these lines would be welcome.

 

Gilbert

[davidw]

© George Gastin, Creative Commons 3.0

 

a smashing thought - perhaps one of brunnels the royal albert

 

It could be done in sections

[edcayton]

I'd have said that as far as an iconic TRAIN is concerned (and bearing in mind the confusion between Flying Scotsman and Royal Scot loco's and trains) then the Golden Arrow would qualify, although I don't know what version. The HST/IC125 in original and Swallow liveries have got to be up there too because these trains have caught the attention of the non-railway enthusiast.

 

Ed

[davidw]

Not if I can avoid it! I've been just watching to see how things develop, but perhaps now is the time to summarise. There really doesn't seem to be anything which really jumps out, at least as far as locomotive are concerned. Some which are mentioned clearly qualify as icons - the A4 for instance, but it is already produced, and to a very high standard. What I was looking for was things which haven't so far been considered, but which might sell in the same kind of numbers as, for example, City of Truro.

 

I can see why a lot of things have been mentioned. To take just one example, Max Stafford mentions Cardean. I agree that it was a very famous engine in its time, and that it is still remembered by some all these years later. The problem though is that it was withdrawn a very long time ago. Had it been preserved.... well that might be a different matter. The same IMO would apply to things like The Great Bear.

 

The one steam loco mentioned which gets my antennae twitching is a Garrett. Has that got the impact and the aura which might work? It would need to sell a lot to collectors though, as it would be difficult to fit in on the average sized layout.

 

Trying to be less lococentric, the suggestion of iconic strucrures is an interesting one. Viaducts and bridges certainly can have the "wow" factor in, literally, a very big way. I'm not sure about the Forth Bridge, as I can't see many modellers having the space to accomodate it, but what about some of the viaducts on the Settle and Carlisle? Or Monsal Dale as another example?

 

As to coaching stock, it occurs to me that catering vehicles are sadly lacking. Being an ECML man, Gresley restauarant cars immediately spring to mind. What others are there that could have a big impact? And how about some articulated coaching stock? There was a fair amount of it, and as far as I know it isn't represented at all. Again, I'll stick to what I know. The LNER had three very iconic trains, the Silver Jubilee Coronation and West Riding. Cost considerations immediately raise their ugly heads if one considers doing the whole rake, but post war they got split up, and could be found in some very unlikely places, so might a twin set or two be a feasible proposition?

 

More thoughts on these lines would be welcome.

 

Gilbert

 

Picking up Great northern's theme of Coaches - what immediately springs to mind in the Coronation Scot coaches. To see that train would be impressive.

But this would run to all kinds of the regions trains

 

ACE, Cornish Rivera, Coronation Scot, Elizabethan not sure if these qualify as iconic but they some would qualify as memorable to the spotters of the 50's and 60's.

 

Taking a different tack, and the popularity of scale dale/scenecraft a decent british outline turntable?

[Ozexpatriate]

Taking a different tack, and the popularity of scale dale/scenecraft a decent british outline turntable?

An accurate turntable would be welcomed by many. But even if it is evocative of a typical turntable it is a very pragmatic, perhaps even prosaic item. I don't think the 'wow' factor would be there compared to the 'iconic' trains, locomotives or bridges mentioned.

[Ozexpatriate]

The LNER had three very iconic trains, the Silver Jubilee Coronation and West Riding.

 

... what immediately springs to mind in the Coronation Scot coaches. To see that train would be impressive.

 

...ACE, Cornish Rivera, Coronation Scot, Elizabethan not sure if these qualify as iconic but they some would qualify as memorable to the spotters of the 50's and 60's.

I'll second the notion that trains with panache meet the 'iconic' criterion. I think they are a worthy consideration.

[JeremyC]

I think I agree with the view that it's often trains rather than locomotives that are icons, particularly in the public mind.

 

The LNER and LMS streamline trains are certainly icons of the 1930's and the HST must be one for the 70's.

 

The Blue Pullman has attracted much attention recently. I recently watched the BTF film and thought how much it must have stood out on what was still a steam age railway.

 

The Forth Bridge is, of couse, a real icon, one I see daily when I'm home as it's only about two miles from my house.

 

An iconic locomotive for my area? The NB Atlantic.

 

Jeremy

[davidw]

APT-E and HST prototypes would be interesting too.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

For me there are very few true icons; something that sums up the spirit of the age and captures the public's imagination. There are many examples given here that maybe, or indeed are, icons within the railway fraternity, however as much as I like and admire them, the class 89, Great Bear etc. don't fit my interpretation of 'iconic'.

 

My suggestions are below...

 

Many people have mentioned Mallard as an icon, and I agree. The name, livery, appearance; all have gone into public folklore. It is an instantly recognisable image, and one which conjures up the 1930s; sleek, bold adventurous with a hint of art deco. Mallard is our number 1 icon in the UK.

 

Next isn't an individual engine, or even a class. It is the classic 19th Century American 4-4-0 with the big smoke stack and cow-catcher. Put 'train' and 'Railway' into Google images, and something of this type, inevitably stylised, will show up.

 

I hate the term 'instant classic'. It is usually the product of some advertising executive or over-enthusiastic PR bod. Films that are 'instant classics' usually end up being rubbish, books of this nature often find themselves on Amazon for £1.99 and albums end up being trotted out on Mark Lamarr's 'God's Jukebox' (which incidentally I love) if they're any good, or some 99p compilation if not. The bucking of this trend was Eurostar, which immediately caught the imagination. Not just in its appearance, which still looks damn fine over 15 years later, but the livery, the route , the fact it runs in the Channel Tunnel, the name, the fact it is our true high-speed train. All combined, this is classic ingredients of an icon.

 

The next one is in fact a name - Venice, Simplon, Orient Express. Doesn't really need any explanation...

 

The BR double-arrow. Love it or hate it, how many years is it since BR officially ceased to exist, but that logo remains; the universally accepted sign for a station. To all people in the UK, and many others who are visitors, it has rendered the use of the word 'station' on a sign superfluous. Whoever engaged that firm of consultants was a genius...

 

I would like to argue that the Channel Tunnel is an icon, but for me one of the main ingredients was visual, which doesn't really do it in this case. The next example is actually two; two viaducts. The Ribblehead and the Landwasser. Both appear constantly on tourist information, posters and the like. Both are symbols of the line of which they carry, the trains they carry and the areas in which they are located. Both the Forth and Royal Albert Bridges are iconic in their own way, but Lothian/Fife and Devon/Cornwall tourist boards don't use their images half as much as Yorkshire use the Ribblehead.

 

Chances are, if you Google 'train' or 'railway', as well as the US design, the Shinkansen will also appear. For me there is nothing that comes close to the Bullet in terms of iconic status, lead by the 0 Series and closely followed (I would argue) by the 500. Unsurprisingly the Japanese are potty about it, and images of the Bullet show up everywhere. If it wasn't such an important development why would the NRM have shipped one half-way across the world? I really cannot think of a more iconic image than a Bullet crossing the viaduct crossing the Fuji river with Mount Fuji in the background...

 

To finish my ramblings, perhaps a controversial suggestion. We could well be seeing an icon in the making with Tornado. It is certainly capturing the public's imagination even though it cannot compete in the design stakes. Will we be seeing images of Tornado cropping up time and time again when the word 'train' is mentioned?

[Stubby47]

No one seems to have mentioned narrow gauge stock - how about some R-T-R Ffestiniog or Tallyllyn locos, in 4mm or even 7mm?

 

And looking on an even wider scope - how about some Brunnel 7ft broad gauge stock ? (Ok, so there is no r-t-r track, but that's not insurmountable).

 

Stu

[AMJ]

Jenny Lind - classic used by many lines in the early days, built by quite a few of the smaller loco names that many that have not read AL Ahrons Locos 1825-1925 will not know about.

 

The talk about LMS B-G above reminds me that there was a magazine article when Dapol started saying that and the Pug were under development. It was probably canned due to costs and possible limited sales at the time.

 

The iconic Forth bridge could be made in a modular form so the box would only be the size of the 3 towers. Perhaps the Tay bridge with the notorious past. For those on Tyneside you could have either the High Level bridge or any of the other bridges over the Tyne - modern classic the Queen Elizabeth II? Wearsiders would argue that the their rail bridge is iconic.

 

Slightly OT Tees Transporter bridge - seen in Boro and from the many lines along the Tees.

 

Sentinel railcar

 

The NG comment above the FR double Fairlie has been done by Bachmann in 1/19th scale.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... As to coaching stock, it occurs to me that catering vehicles are sadly lacking. Being an ECML man, Gresley restauarant cars immediately spring to mind. What others are there that could have a big impact? And how about some articulated coaching stock? There was a fair amount of it, and as far as I know it isn't represented at all. Again, I'll stick to what I know. The LNER had three very iconic trains, the Silver Jubilee, Coronation and West Riding. Cost considerations immediately raise their ugly heads if one considers doing the whole rake, but post war they got split up, and could be found in some very unlikely places, so might a twin set or two be a feasible proposition? ...

The sets were inconveniently broken up, one cannot help but feel. The Coronation twin first vehicles went on to serve in the Talisman to the end of steam, so they maybe have a train set potential beyond the pre-war streamliners. Lot of tooling to do a Coronation/West Riding set complete though, four toolings without the observation car, and that by winking at the brake third bodies at each end of the sets being different. Which pales alongside the Silver Jubilee set, seven unique bodies in a seven vehicle set. Shame because the the triplet restaurant was in regular BR East coast service, while the other two portions were maintained as a regular set for the 'Fife Coast' service.

 

What about the Gresley BG? Always got a buzz out of seeing those alongside blue and grey mk2s: rather like seeing a DC3 alongside a 747. They have longevity with multiple liveries and countrywide travel on their side?

 

The ore cars for the Tyne Dock-Consett run were impressive. A version of a certain manufacturer's 9F and EE type 3 or type 4 as banker for a packaged offering?

.. Perhaps the Tay bridge with the notorious past. ...

If only the current Hornby were into the 'play value' toys that saw them do the ducking Giraffe and exploding ammunition cars. I envision it coming with a large desk top fan...

[davidw]

Dynamomter car as towed by Mallard in 1938?

[mr b]

some Gresley suburbon twins or quads would be a nice addition both in 00 and N , and why on earth does every one rant on about main line stuff ???

 

mr B

[The Stationmaster]

Dynamomter car as towed by Mallard in 1938?

 

Already available (albeit in 7mm scale) should you want a model of it.