No WR Blue Pullman from Bachmann

[Diesel Dayz]

ah, but I'm sure the BP ran through Duffield way back ....

 

Yes, and it will again!

[frobisher]

I wonder why they have to release them as full sets?

 

Could they not release the power cars plus two coaches for eg £175 (a figure i plucked at random), then sell the coaches seperately to make up the set as and when you wish/save up/get a bigger layout?

 

Thats what I had to do with my HST in the distant past!

 

I think the problem there is that the BP is definably a set thing, the HST is considerably more variable in configuration and longer in full formation on track. As it stands, if you did a two plus two set, (presumably one of each intervening coach) Bachmann would realistically have to produce less of the two extra coaches because not everyone will then buy the full set. If the initial set does well and a rerun is made, it will then have different numbers/names (as per standard Bachmann policy) but in all likely hood they'd not rerun the extra coaches, because by the very nature of addon coaches, there will still be some of those knocking around the retailers. At this point the bitch and moaning starts about "why have they done that?" etc.

 

Doing them as a set gives Bachmann better control over inventory, and certainly no unsold coaches knocking around the market to worry about.

 

Though, that said, I'd put even money on Rails and/or Hattons splitting sets up to one degree or other though to accomodate the "I just want a pair of power cars" and "I want to do a Western Pullman conversion" markets. The coaches and locos from the Farish trainsets are often sold sold separately by those two and are a great way of getting the unique loco or coaches that were made just for that set without buying the bit you don't want.

[The Stationmaster]

I wonder why they have to release them as full sets?

 

Could they not release the power cars plus two coaches for eg £175 (a figure i plucked at random), then sell the coaches seperately to make up the set as and when you wish/save up/get a bigger layout?

 

Thats what I had to do with my HST in the distant past!

 

 

So who then hangs on to all the surplus coaches until someone decides (or doesn't decide) that they want to buy the rest of it? Surely if the market wants a unit train which always ran as a unit train then it shouldn't really come as a surprise that a manufacturer would put it into the market as a unit train?

 

Bachmann are investing a large amount of money in the BP and their stockists are also going to have put in a large amount of money unless they only intend to buy into stock one or two sets. All of them will want to see a return quickly - especially in the present financial climate - and not be lumbered with odd coaches that might sit on the shelves for a year or more chewing up interest payments. So the logical thing to do is give the wish-listers what they have been asking for - 'a Blue Pullman'.

 

And, rather obviously I would have thought, it was never going to be cheap as it consists of at least 6 vehicles. Surely the wish-listers took all this into account before ticking boxes on survey forms etc?

[Diesel Dayz]

You can please some of the people all of the time etc etc. Add to that - Be careful what you wish for...................... It would be interesting to see how many of the 'frothers & wishers' will actually buy the BP.

[coachmann]

Customer : I want to buy a Midland Pullman. How much is it?

Shop owner: £300 and you get a free loaf.

Custmer: Can I just buy the power cars and one coach to begin with?

Shop Owner : Nope!

Customer ; But I can come back next month and buy another coach.

Shop owner : Nope!

Customer : Doesn't matter................I really wanted a WR Pullman anyway!!!

Shop owner : We can do the WR set sir because we have actually commisioned the necessary coaches.

Customer : How much is that then?

Shop owner : £400 and you get a free woolly hat.

Customer : Look, I'm used to paying small amounts of money for plastic RTR and I think this is ridiculous.

Shop owner: Then why not write to Bachmann? I'm sure they'll be giving them away soon...

 

[Neil]

You can please some of the people all of the time etc etc. Add to that - Be careful what you wish for...................... It would be interesting to see how many of the 'frothers & wishers' will actually buy the BP.

 

Makes taking a deposit before going into production seem like very good idea .

[2ManySpams]

Customer : I want to buy a Midland Pullman. How much is it?

Shop owner: £300 and you get a free loaf.

Custmer: Can I just buy the power cars and one coach to begin with?

Shop Owner : Nope!

Customer ; But I can come back next month and buy another coach.

Shop owner : Nope!

Customer : Doesn't matter................I really wanted a WR Pullman anyway!!!

Shop owner : We can do the WR set sir because we have actually commisioned the necessary coaches.

Customer : How much is that then?

Shop owner : £400 and you get a free woolly hat.

Customer : Look, I'm used to paying small amounts of money for plastic RTR and I think this is ridiculous.

Shop owner: Then why not write to Bachmann? I'm sure they'll be giving them away soon...

 

 

Very good Larry.

 

Obviously written in jest but i can actually see that being played out in shops (perhaps without the free loaf and hat). In releasing the BP in a 6 car set have Bachmann actually produced a model just for enthusiasts? There can't be many Joe Public who either have room for the full set or the money (in a single purchase) to get it. By comparison i note that Hornby generally produce coach and train packs of 3 coaches. Is this from any previous experience? I suppose it fills the Joe public market who only want a few coaches and (buying two sets) the modeller who wants the full train.

 

It is interesting though that now the No 1 wish list item has been granted production after many years of asking that it's now split into sub camps of "I really want a BP but only a MR one" and "I really want a BP but only a WR one"! Putting a commercial hat one i really can't see how spending a load of extra cash to produce the tools for extra WR variants (that can only reduce sales of MR ones) can make sense to Bachmann. Surely producing both types won't double sales. If i were them i'd take the lowest cash outlay option (the 6 car) and leave it to the after sales bits and bobs / etched sides folk to service those who are enthusiastic enough to really want the other type.

 

Look on the bright side, Bachmann producing the MR set gives modellers a far better starting point for a WR one than has ever been available before. Correct length bodies, modern bogies (presumably with the coupling bar that widens on curves), decent motor etc etc.

[craigwelsh]

Look on the bright side, Bachmann producing the MR set gives modellers a far better starting point for a WR one than has ever been available before. Correct length bodies, modern bogies (presumably with the coupling bar that widens on curves), decent motor etc etc.

I wonder how much you can sell a 4 car Blue Pullman for .

 

Incidentally thinking back to when I was 19 I put 'Blue Pullman' down on a Hornby wish list sheet rather than South Wales Pullman (DEMU).. Oops!

 

A train set has always been loco + 2/3 apart from when Hornby latterly did the Flying Scotsman trainset with 4 old Gresleys. Quite a few people seem to have happily been buying loco + 6 recently off Hornby though for them to keep producing the secondary coach pack. Knowing numbers produced of those additional sets would obviously be insightful but its not going to happen.By producing the full set in one box Bachmann get equal use of all tools which is a bonus for them.

[7013]

When I contribute to a wish list I usually have a favourite in mind, but I fully expect many variants because we all like different things. For instance my favourite Cl37 is the original EE type 3 version, I also like 'William Cookworthy' as another variant, and in most cases I can satisfy virtually any CL37 need I have. However as there are only two Blue Pullmans and as one is not being made it is hard luck on those who wish for a WR version. I can fully understand any 'haziness' when it comes to say Cl 37's but as there were only two version of the Blue Pullman it is crystal clear....... Midland and Western hardly hazy is it!

[coachmann]

I wonder if Bachmann will ponder about the best year in which to launch the Blue Pullman?

 

Frighteners :

Retailers are already concerned about 'disposable income' in 2011.

VAT goes up in 2011.

The year 2012 is an unknown quantity.

Almost £300 for each 'set' is not within everyones pocket.

Based on price, the 'market' for a Blue Pullman might mainly rest with enthusiasts and not toy train buyers.

Because of the WR Blue Pullman factor, the market is already split (maybe halved).

Should the package be reduced to half the set (3 coaches) to attract more sales?

Should a 'use by dated' coupon go with the initial set that allows a discount on the other 'half' of the set?

[Pennine MC]

Thanks lads, I've just come back off two weeks' hols and I should be a bit miserable, but this thread has given me a good laugh. I particularly like these three:

 

If the 04 is anything to go by - a western region version will soon appear,

 

. I would not mind betting that Hornby are now looking at the WR Pullman closely in the light of Bachmanns announcement.

 

I wonder why they have to release them as full sets?

 

 

The nearest available thing to this anywhere else is Roco's VT11 TEE diesel unit,

 

So will that do as a WR BP then Dave? It sounds near enough to me

 

 

And, rather obviously I would have thought, it was never going to be cheap as it consists of at least 6 vehicles. Surely the wish-listers took all this into account before ticking boxes on survey forms etc?

All I'll say there Mike, is 'Charlie and the Hastings unit'

[7013]

Just looking back at what I have voted for in past wish lists I have never once put down Blue Pullman..........................I will shut now!

[great northern]

A chat with the staff at my local model shop confirms that most of their customers appear to know very little and care less about prototype fidelity. The one that sticks in my mind is this conversation - true, honestly! I was there.

 

Elderly lady to husband "What are you going to buy today then dear"?

 

Husband " I think I'll get a red engine......."

 

Wife "but you've already got one of those dear..."

 

Not that unusual, I was assured. Add to that the fact that many of the customers have a 6ft by 4 or at most an 8 ft by 4 layout, and the picture becomes very clear and absolutely confirms Chris Leigh's comments.

 

Now, are any of those people going to spend £300 on a single purchase? nd do they have the scope to run it if they do? An 8 coach train on an 8 by 4 really would be a tailchaser.

 

That IMO is why train sets are big shiny colourful loco plus three coaches. It's what fits on most layouts. And I suspect it is where most of us started as well......

 

That's why I spoke of a dose of reality in my earlier post.

['CHARD]

For instance my favourite Cl37 is the original EE type 3 version

 

It is indeed fortuitous then, that Bachmann didn't release the BRCW Type 4 version or the MetroVick Type 1 version

[2ManySpams]

Not that unusual, I was assured. Add to that the fact that many of the customers have a 6ft by 4 or at most an 8 ft by 4 layout, and the picture becomes very clear and absolutely confirms Chris Leigh's comments.

 

Come to think of it there can't be many 'serious' layouts with 8' long fiddle yard roads or passing loops to accomodate the full WR BP!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... Almost £300 for each 'set' is not within everyones pocket.

Based on price, the 'market' for a Blue Pullman might mainly rest with enthusiasts and not toy train buyers. ...

There's an element of 'test the market' in this offering. Consider that we have seen a fair number of prototype/small class OO models over the past couple of years, with editions in volumes of 2,500 to 5,000; prices £100 and up. Their reception has generally been favourable; the first consignment of the NRM/Bach DP1 selling out in under two weeks, product unseen, if the reports are to be trusted. That has definitely established that there is a demand for 'something better and/or non-standard' in RTR OO, and a proportion of the customer base willing to pay the price. What sort of prospect is there for a bigger, and thus more expensive offering, in this vein? Only one way to find out.

 

It also occurs to me that my (infinitely grander and more impressive) Peppercorn A1 plus eight of a mix of Hornby and Bach's Pullman cars, representing the Tyne Tees Pullman as the Met Camm cars were introduced, doesn't leave any change from £300 either.

[gwrrob]

Come to think of it there can't be many 'serious' layouts with 8' long fiddle yard roads or passing loops to accomodate the full WR BP!

 

Chris.I can squeeze the 7 coach 'Royal Duchy' into my fiddle yard.Just !

[JohnR]

Bachmann are investing a large amount of money in the BP and their stockists are also going to have put in a large amount of money unless they only intend to buy into stock one or two sets. All of them will want to see a return quickly - especially in the present financial climate - and not be lumbered with odd coaches that might sit on the shelves for a year or more chewing up interest payments. So the logical thing to do is give the wish-listers what they have been asking for - 'a Blue Pullman'.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bachmann will not have invested a penny in this- it is a commision from Hattons. Hattons will have invested a lot of money in this. And because its a commission from Hattons, it wont be available in other retailers (unless they purchse them from Hattons, of course).

[Andy C]

I can just envisage Graham Hubbard and the rest of the Bachman staff reading all this and thinking

"why the **** did we bother"

[Redkiterail]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bachmann will not have invested a penny in this- it is a commision from Hattons. Hattons will have invested a lot of money in this. And because its a commission from Hattons, it wont be available in other retailers (unless they purchse them from Hattons, of course).

 

acutally its not a commission its a regular range model there is no hattons comissions with Bachmann just ltd ed models the comissions are the class 28 metrovick with Heljan and the lms twins with Dapol.

[Pennine MC]

 

Imagine what page we'd be on if they were actually going to make it ...

 

That would be speculation, then

[JohnR]

acutally its not a commission its a regular range model there is no hattons comissions with Bachmann just ltd ed models the comissions are the class 28 metrovick with Heljan and the lms twins with Dapol.

 

My mistake, I was obviously confusing them with the LMS twins.

[rprodgers]

As Ive said before this thread seems to consist of two groups the "nay sayers" whose interests are not with a BP of any description and those bemoaning a WR one not being selected, with another group rather quiet.

 

 

It has been stated that the BP is more likely to be purchased by an enthusiast rather than a "train set" buyer- so where are all the LMR enthusiasts rejoicing that a LMR version has been selected; they seem rather thin on the ground?

[The Stationmaster]

A chat with the staff at my local model shop confirms that most of their customers appear to know very little and care less about prototype fidelity.

(snipped)

That's why I spoke of a dose of reality in my earlier post.

 

 

I was in my local model shop today picking up some Bachmann wagons (ordered just over a year ago, they arrived last Friday ) and asked the owner if he was going to order the Blue Pullman? No way he said.

 

This is a shop with model railways as very much the smaller part of its business - with him normally ordering no more than six of any particular loco when it's anounced. So very different from the box shifters but still providing a model railway retail presence on the High Street, and in an area where most of his customers willingly pay the advertised retail price for model railway items so he is moving stock with £100+ prices without too much difficulty.

 

No doubt Bachmann won't be upset by not having an order from him for Blue Pullmans. But to what extent is his wish not to tie up money in a very large ticket item going to be typical of smaller retailers I wonder?

[rprodgers]

Due to the cost of the BP package I think it stands to reason that not all Bachmann stockists will stock the BP on a "flyer" unless they have received expressions of interest from their customers at the least.

 

My LMS has already received a fair number of orders for the BP and had advised me that unless an order is placed they would not be stocking them just for stock.

 

Nothing like this has been attempted by a model railway manufacturer in OO and in an economic recession no LMS will be stocking large numbers of expensive items without some guarantee of a return.