Black Marlin Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Really? about which I really do know of what I'm talking, perhaps? It's an interesting one, isn't it? In this unusual example, the duplication of the word 'about' is correct - although I admit it's inelegant. If you want to get into the technicalities, 'about' in the first instance refers to the subject of English usage ("English usage, about which"), while in the second instance it refers to the extent to which I have knowledge of that subject ("I know what I'm talking about"). But just to keep everybody happy: "English usage, about which I know whereof I speak." 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 It's an interesting one, isn't it? In this unusual example, the duplication of the word 'about' is correct - although I admit it's inelegant. If you want to get into the technicalities, 'about' in the first instance refers to the subject of English usage ("English usage, about which"), while in the second instance it refers to the extent to which I have knowledge of that subject ("I know what I'm talking about"). But just to keep everybody happy: "English usage, about which I know whereof I speak." I recognise the reversion to Latin grammar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BSW01 Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2018 Good morning everyone We’ve both had a bit of a lie-in this morning, I think we must have needed it. Anyway, the rain has stopped and the sun is threatening to show its self, so I’m off out to carry on working in the garden. I’ll mostly be looking at where the new path will finally be sited and when I’m sure, I’ll measure up for what is needed for it. Back later. I recognise the reversion to Latin grammar. I don’t! 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2018 Morning all from Estuary-Land. It appears to have rained last night but you wouldn't think so. Only a slight dampness in corners where the sun doesn't reach until later in the day, a large cobweb in the garden washed out and grit pooled where it had been washed on the patio. I didn't notice it last night so I must have been well asleep. Apart from the above signs there is little other evidence as everything is now completely dry. Got to do a bit of shopping later and tomorrows event is only five miles away so it should be possible to avoid all the holiday traffic. 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2018 Morning all, Belated congratulations to Miss NB (BA?), definitely looks a better spot for a pic than alongside the manky 'water feature' at York uni where laddo got his BA. Last night's rain would seem to have almost entirely vanished although it was nice and cool while it was descending - we are not promised, or even threatened, to receive any more for the rest of this week so the farmers can stick to moaning about the heat (and no doubt the low yield in cereal crops due to the lack of rain). Once they do get get going we will be back to whopping great tractors hauling grain trailers up & down the hill which connects our road to the main road as they seem to have developed a habit of moving harvested grain several miles to another farm, along a route through our edge of the town. In further development the contractor came round yesterday to look at and price for next door's fence along our south side - the relevance of this is that to get at the job he will have to cut back lots of shrubbery on my side; great, saves me doing it! No plans for today as my neck/back is still a long way from right so I have cancelled my planned trip to the GCR (as in Great Cockcrow Rly) 'family day' plus I just don't fancy a day in full sunshine with limited opportunities for shade. Have a good day one and all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2018 Mornin' awl from an arid place. We had no overnight rain despite the forecast of thunderstorms. I went out last night to a gig featuring local folk artistes, two singer/songwriters and a duo featuring Lewis of Granny's Attic on fiddle and Helen on clarinet, an unusual combination that works very well. A few ales were had. I have worked out that I don't really need to shop today, so I'll be in all day, hopefully getting some stuff done, mostly photographing and listing for sale stuff from my past. I'd forgotten I'd even had some of it, but I'm getting a steady turnover. I'm also selling some of Mrs mole's stuff (she does know) as she doesn't like doing it. I'll have to rouse the nocturnal one soon for lunch and his afternoon shift at the charity shop. The time lapse from waking him to his actual appearance can be quite long. I find clattering pans and crockery and loading/unloading the dishwasher in the kitchen below his room can help, by disrupting his attempts to go back to sleep! Tomorrow Mrs mole and I are going to Avebury to meet some friends who are soon to be handfasted, visit the Stones and have lunch at The Red Lion. The cross-country drive passes parts of the routes of the Romsey-Andover line and the MSWJR, including the Ludgershall branch. Good wishes to all, and healing vibes to those in need thereof. Pete. 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDMJ Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 It's an interesting one, isn't it? In this unusual example, the duplication of the word 'about' is correct - although I admit it's inelegant. If you want to get into the technicalities, 'about' in the first instance refers to the subject of English usage ("English usage, about which"), while in the second instance it refers to the extent to which I have knowledge of that subject ("I know what I'm talking about"). But just to keep everybody happy: "English usage, about which I know whereof I speak." "About" is, I believe, a preposition regardless of its referral and there are several references which suggest that a preposition should never end a sentence. With reference to the English language as a whole, its abuse is something up with which I will not put! The travel news broadcast on many media these days oft refers to traffic being slow following an accident; where is the accident going? 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Must remember to buy or borrow a multimeter this afternoon.... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightengine Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 It's an interesting one, isn't it? In this unusual example, the duplication of the word 'about' is correct - although I admit it's inelegant. If you want to get into the technicalities, 'about' in the first instance refers to the subject of English usage ("English usage, about which"), while in the second instance it refers to the extent to which I have knowledge of that subject ("I know what I'm talking about"). But just to keep everybody happy: "English usage, about which I know whereof I speak." I notice that in the sentence about usage what you writ you didn't once use the words 'like' or 'innit'. Is that because you is well cultured? As for tekni, tecknee, technicalities JohnDMJ is well versed. Respeck to you both.ITV news last night at 6.30 had an item about baby milk formula and the instruction shown on the screen was to shake the bottle in a 'verticle' movement. Even though I was well smacked in the gob I resisted my urge to punch the screen. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightengine Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 With apologies to all the unfortunate people killed in the US "boat" capsize, I personally wouldn't go in one of those on a millpond let alone a lake with sizeable waves. According to the news today, the captain told passengers that they didnt need life jackets on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 "About" is, I believe, a preposition regardless of its referral and there are several references which suggest that a preposition should never end a sentence. Dear John (as so many ominous missives have begun) Robert Lowth strikes again! He was the 18th-century clergyman who promulgated this nonsense in the first place, despite it being violently disagreed with in the works of Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton and almost everybody else. The reference works you mention, if they do maintain Lowth's position, are markedly out of step with what is considered correct English usage (I would point you to the Burchfield Fowler's Modern English Usage; it is currently on its fifth edition, I believe, though I know the same point is made in the fourth. Useful guidance on prepostional endings and their validity is also to be found in A Student's Introduction to English Grammar, The Grammar Bible, Grammatically Correct, Grammar Desk Reference, Garner's Modern American Usage and The Columbia Guide to Standard American English). The preposition position is grammatically important in Latin* - one would betray one's ignorance if one were to continue an argument infinitum ad, for instance - but this is not true of English (indeed, Churchill's comment about the sort of English up with which he would not put was made to mock a person who criticised his concluding a sentence with a preposition). In fact there are some cases in which it makes for exceptionally bad English not to end with a preposition. I refer, of course, to phrasal verbs. "Why don't you cheer up?" becomes positively Yoda-ish if you try to amend it: "Why not up your cheer?" (This also makes 'up' a verb in its own right, and I don't like to do that except in the most casual circumstances.) Amongst grammarians (and linguists like me who work as professional copy editors), the 'do not end a sentence with a preposition' canard is referred to as an example of zombie grammar: it's dead but it just keeps coming back. This dubious honour is shared with 'do not split an infinitive' (see footnote below); 'data is a plural noun and requires a plural verb'; 'do not start a sentence with 'and' or 'but''; 'don't split the parts of a verb phrase'; 'none is always singular';'"It is I" is correct and "It is me" is incorrect'; 'do not use double negatives'; and various others (which mostly apply more to American English than British). I trust this clarifies matters. With my warm regards, Gavin *The same poor grasp of the Latin/English relationship also furnished generations of English students with the idiotic commandment that "you must not split an infinitive". (In Latin, for those of you wondering why this is idiotic, you can't split an infinitive because it is one word rather than two. You can split 'to love' in English - e.g. 'to passionately love' - but you can't split 'amare'. Furthermore, there is a continuing debate as to whether or not 'to' is actually part of the infinitive form in English: in the phrase 'she helped him escape', is 'to' missing because it's unnecessary, or has it simply been elided as a matter of style? The arguments continue.). 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Gents, mind discussing the ins and outs of the English language elsewhere? I have little (as in: no) interest in the matter and I reckon I won't be the only one TIA! It's all Greek to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 I notice that in the sentence about usage what you writ you didn't once use the words 'like' or 'innit'. Is that because you is well cultured? With my most mischievous linguist's hat on, I feel I must ask: to which culture do you refer? If I were to sound like a home office spokesperson I would not, like, fit into the culture of southern California, while omitting 'innit' from my lexicon would leave me outside the culture of my bloods in South London - innit though bruv? "Well-cultured" is an extremely mobile feast ;-) 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Gents, mind discussing the ins and outs of the English language elsewhere? I have little (as in: no) interest in the matter and I reckon I won't be the only one TIA! I am entirely happy to. Frankly, I'd be relieved to. I only felt I had to respond because it is, literally, my day job: criticising my ability to do it runs the risk of encouraging unpleasant professional consequences for me should anyone from the office (some of whom know of my presence on here) see it and draw erroneous conclusions. Sorry, but knowing the ins and outs of correct English usage isn't a hobby or mere pedantry for me - it's a livelihood. Regards, Gavin 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightengine Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Gents, mind discussing the ins and outs of the English language elsewhere? I have little (as in: no) interest in the matter and I reckon I won't be the only one TIA! Are you saying it is less interesting than golf, cricket and photos of awls? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 It might be possible to 3D print a new gear in nylon. If you shoot me the dimensions and some pix I'll take a shot at creating the model and put it up on Shapeways. PM sent with what I hope are the relevant dimensions and some photos. Thanks also to skipepsi, who found the Doodlebug gears for sale through NWSL in the US. Weather is dry but overcast here today, but a decent walk was managed this morning, and a bit of gardening this afternoon. It seems that every courgette seed we planted has grown into a healthy plant, and we are now expecting a real glut of them! 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2018 Are you saying it is less interesting than golf, cricket and photos of awls? Or any different from some of the other meanderings and visits to byways of this, that, and the other which occur on ERs ? 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 prone to extremism ... English language is discussed by a bunch of highly (over?) paid linguists ... Dutch_Master, I would like an apology. I object in the most strenuous terms to being painted as a potential extremist, regardless of the subject; I also object to your denigration of my professional worth, especially when you have absolutely no idea what I'm paid (for the record: it ain't much). If you wish to continue the discussion, or raise specific issues, PM me. But the apology, like the accusations that provoke its necessity, must be public. Gavin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 81C Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2018 YAWN Afternoon Peeps I can't be @rsed reading this carp C U later. enjoy the rest of the day C.H.Eesedoff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2018 ! Tomorrow Mrs mole and I are going to Avebury to meet some friends who are soon to be handfasted, visit the Stones and have lunch at The Red Lion. The cross-country drive passes parts of the routes of the Romsey-Andover line and the MSWJR, including the Ludgershall branch. Good wishes to all, and healing vibes to those in need thereof. Pete. Branch?!!! BRANCH?!!!! The MSWJR was a through express line with expresses that maybe reached a huge 45 mph.. Tidworth was the branch, Ludgershall was the junction. Sadly just a military line from Ludgershall to Andover now. You'll be going past my Grandfather's house if you go past the site of bridge 13, and past my great-grandfather's house and coal yard if you go past the disused bridge 12.Enjoy your trip trampling over my childhood. Some 47 years since I left Ludgershall.. Trailer collected, no Horsetan you can't borrow my multimeter, it's needed here because, the rear left hand light cluster is not being repeated at the corroded 12N socket on the landrover. Buoy filled with foam, outside covered in first coat of glassfibre, I'll do the second tomorrow, before it gets too hot, the resin was going off very quickly. After that back to the wireing fault. 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2018 Evening all from Estuary-Land. It did rain last night, when I went out to the car lunchtime it was 'spotted' with dust brought down by the raindrops. I doubt if there was any thunder as I must have slept right through it. With apologies to all the unfortunate people killed in the US "boat" capsize, I personally wouldn't go in one of those on a millpond let alone a lake with sizeable waves. According to the news today, the captain told passengers that they didnt need life jackets on. On the news it was reported that the captain was amongst those who drowned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2018 I was using "branch" specifically in terms of its present status; I'm quite aware of its former glories! There's a stretch of the former trackbed clearly visible from the road near Collingbourne Ducis and I try to visualise "Galloping Alice" on the Southampton Express. I worked on the excavations at Ludgershall Castle in the summer of '69, so I expect you were around then. We were sleeping on the floors at the local secondary school. 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Stunning (IMO) video from Farnborough airshow. I didn't know these could do anything like this! 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) Stunning (IMO) video from Farnborough airshow. I didn't know these could do anything like this! Wow, and the props are barely rotating Edited July 21, 2018 by AndyID 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2018 Wow, and the props are barely rotating Thats the effect of the camera, though its electronic it takes a sequence of still pictures and strings them together just like the old film cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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