N scale London Underground 1938 stock

[Burkitt]

 

 

Despite not modelling in N, the idea came into my head the other day to have a go at building a train of 1938 tube stock in that scale, pretty much just to see if it is possible. So far I have assembled two sides and the roof of a driving motor car. The roof uses two layers of 0.5mm styrene, with cut outs in the top layer to represent the doors, over several formers for the curved shape on a 1mm base layer to give it strength. For the sides I have used a base of 0.5mm transparent styrene, which forms the glazing and the "front" layer of the doors, with the bodysides and window frame detail built up on the front of it, and the recessed door panels and door glazing layer behind it.

I'm not sure at this stage if the whole thing will actually work, at this stage I'm mainly testing my ability to build something this small and fiddly. If I can get one carriage done I'll order a Kato Portram to provide motor bogies and press on with the others.

 

Paul

[Kris]

Interesting build. I like what you have done with it. Are you going to be building the front of the coach in the same way?

[Xerces Fobe2]

Good luck with this project - I thought modelling Underground Stock in 4mm was difficult bit at least we have EFE, Metromodels and Radleys models. To start from scratch takes a lot of skill , time and courage!

 

Looking forward to seeing the end product and layout?

 

Xerces Fobe

 

 

[Burkitt]

Interesting build. I like what you have done with it. Are you going to be building the front of the coach in the same way?

 

Yes, I'm using the same method for the car ends, except with slightly thicker transparent plastic to provide greater strength and help keep the sides to the correct profile.

 

 

 

 

 

Somewhat cruel closeups of the front on its own and in a dry run with the sides and roof to check fit. The domed cab roof will be shaped from filler over a thin styrene base. Not sure how I'll represent the distinctive cab air vent though.

 

Looking forward to seeing the end product and layout?

 

 

Thanks Xerces, not sure about a layout though - I've already got too many unfinished ones hanging around as it is.

 

Paul

[kintbury jon]

Looks really good. You could perhaps take the slghtly easier option and model the 59/62 stock where the front of the roof is not domed like the 38 stock. The front lights are different (they had 2 or 3 horizontal lights) though I think the 1956 prototypes had the 5 lights as you have modelled.

[Burkitt]

Thanks Jon. I have fond memories of riding on the 1959 stock on the way to visit my grandparents, but I think the 38 stock is much better looking so I'll stick with it for the moment.

On the modelling front, it's been two steps forward and one back today. The front and rear ends are done, and I've now ordered a Kato Portram from the Ffestiniog shop, but I've had to bin the roof as it was too wide and nowhere near straight. Tomorrow I'll have a go at making a new one by a slightly different method.

 

Paul

[Southernboy]

Inspiring work, it must certainly be a fiddly challenge

 

A couple of questions if I may:

 

What method did you use to cut out the windows? (drill holes in the corners and cut? / Just cut it / another method?)

Have you scored the transparent layer to represent louvers on the windows and panels on the doors? / some other method? (it's difficult to tell from the pictures).

 

I ask as I'm interested in modelling N gauge Underground stock at some future point.

 

Thanks

[Burkitt]

Hi Southernboy,

 

 

I cut the windows out as one hole for each block of four, just using a scalpel. The bars between them were then added with microstrip, secured with superglue.

The ventilation louvres are scored along the lower edge and cut out at the ends, then folded back by about 30 degrees as on the prototype. I originally tried cutting the louvre for each window out individually but that was not practical.

For the doors I have used two layers of material. The raised ribs around the edge of each door leaf are the same piece of transparent plastic as the glazing of the main bodysides. This is cut out in the centre area of each door. Behind the cutout is another layer of transparent plastic, representing both the main door panels, and the door windows. I have scored horizontal lines at the top and bottom of the door window to suggest the slight change in level, and guide masking and painting later.

 

Hope that is of help,

 

Paul

[Gwiwer]

A fascinating project in N with some challenging and very distinctive curvature to represent. Those cars must be tiny! Perhaps using filler for the dome you could scribe the vents on with a blade tip?

[Southernboy]

Thanks for your information Paul, it is indeed helpful

 

Mark

[Burkitt]

Glad to be of help Southernboy. I've been following Frankland with interest - are you planning to include a tube line?

A fascinating project in N with some challenging and very distinctive curvature to represent. Those cars must be tiny! Perhaps using filler for the dome you could scribe the vents on with a blade tip?

 

They are pretty small, about 100mm long, bodysides about 12mm high. Scribing the vents is a good idea, I'll probably try that.

 

 

 

Minor but quite tricky progress today - I've managed to get the two sides glued together with the correct spacing, both sides straight and parallel, and the bottom edges almost level. Once they are attached to the chassis the slight variations in height, less than 0.5mm, should disappear.

 

Paul

[Southernboy]

Glad to be of help Southernboy ... are you planning to include a tube line?

 

On my next layout, yes. But meanwhile I've been waiting for someone to come along and demonstrate a 'proof of concept' (thankyou - you're giving me plenty of ideas)

 

I've managed to get the two sides glued together ... Once they are attached to the chassis the slight variations in height, less than 0.5mm, should disappear.

 

You can rub the finished assembly flat against a sheet of fine sandpaper to help eradicate variations in height.

[BobD]

OK, I can see the use of the Kato Portram as motive power, but what about unmotorised bogies for the other cars. Any suggestions on what to use??

 

I am in the process of doing some 1959 stock and will be looking at a full length train.

[Burkitt]

You can rub the finished assembly flat against a sheet of fine sandpaper to help eradicate variations in height.

 

I have done that a bit, but I'm worried that if I get the pressure along the length of the body wrong, I'll just end up making the situation worse.

 

OK, I can see the use of the Kato Portram as motive power, but what about unmotorised bogies for the other cars. Any suggestions on what to use??

 

I'm looking at some Graham Farish bogies on Ebay which might have wheels close to the right size - awaiting an answer from the seller on that one. Otherwise Kato or one of the other Japanese manufacturers may do something suitable, their multiple units seem to have quite small wheels.

 

Paul

[Revolution Ben]

Hi there,

 

Nice project - like many others here I'm following it with interest.

 

Re bogies; it'll probably be a bit of a compromise but what wheelbase are you after? Bogies I'm aware of are available in N in these (scale) wheelbases: 5'6, 8', 8'6, 1800mm and 2000mm. Wheels are available with 5.1, 6.2 and 7mm diameter.

 

Once you have settled on the best combination, you could add detail to taste to better represent LU types. Once you've done one, and settled on the "protocol" then with a production line the rest shouldn't take too long!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Burkitt]

According to the drawing I'm using 38 stock had bogies with a wheelbase of about 1900mm, scaling to 13.5mm, but bogie length is fairly easy to change so the more important value is the wheel diameter, which scales to 4.8mm. The Portram power bogies have a wheelbase of 12mm and wheel diameter of 4mm. Given that the wheels are fairly obscured by the bogie frames, the chassis and the body of the carriage which they protrude into, a millimetre or so difference shouldn't be too noticeable. Can you recommend any sources of individual bogies other than Ebay?

 

Paul

[PhilJ W]

The 4mm wheels would give another advantage, it would enable the stock to negotiate sharper curves without the wheels coming in contact with the bodywork. A problem with the 4mm EFE stock when motorised.

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Paul,

 

NGS offer:

 

5'6 (~1700mm) Gloucesters or Platebacks (with Diamond frames to come.)

8' (~2400mm) Gresleys or Platebacks (with SR coach bogies to come.)

 

TPM offer:

1800mm TPM Y25c, GP22.5 or Nacco Axle motion bogies

8'6 Commonwealth bogies

Sprinter bogies (2600mm wb I think)

 

Coming soon from TPM:

2000mm ESC1 or Ridemaster bogies.

 

Most of the TPM items are also available, slightly cheaper, from the NGS shop.

 

HTH

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Burkitt]

Thanks Ben, I'll have look at those.

 

Paul

[Burkitt]

Minor update to the 38 stock project. I spent much of Saturday researching options for the trailing bogie wheels. The smallest available wheels from a UK source are 5.1mm, as Ben mentions above. Etched Pixels suggested some Kato wheels in another thread, which looked like they might have been closer to the 4mm Portram wheels. Much trawling of the internet failed to give an exact diameter, so I emailed my query to Japanese online model shop Hobby Search. They were very helpful and replied quickly, but unfortunately the Kato wheels are 5.6mm diameter, so no smaller than anything in the UK. Therefore I have now ordered some 5.1mm wheels and also suitable bearings from Parkside Dundas.

A more exciting development was the arrival of my motor-bogie-donor Portram from the Ffestiniog shop this morning. This is my first ever piece of N scale rolling stock, so today has been my first opportunity to put together on the table a few pieces of flexitrack I bought as a test track and run something on them. The Portram is a beautiful model, very smooth running, and with a realistic whine from the motors as it accelerates and decelerates. I'm more than a little reluctant to dismantle it, but adding Japanese tramways to the list of things I model would be going too far.

 

Paul

[PhilH]

Minor update to the 38 stock project. I spent much of Saturday researching options for the trailing bogie wheels. The smallest available wheels from a UK source are 5.1mm, as Ben mentions above. Etched Pixels suggested some Kato wheels in another thread, which looked like they might have been closer to the 4mm Portram wheels. Much trawling of the internet failed to give an exact diameter, so I emailed my query to Japanese online model shop Hobby Search. They were very helpful and replied quickly, but unfortunately the Kato wheels are 5.6mm diameter, so no smaller than anything in the UK. Therefore I have now ordered some 5.1mm wheels and also suitable bearings from Parkside Dundas.

A more exciting development was the arrival of my motor-bogie-donor Portram from the Ffestiniog shop this morning. This is my first ever piece of N scale rolling stock, so today has been my first opportunity to put together on the table a few pieces of flexitrack I bought as a test track and run something on them. The Portram is a beautiful model, very smooth running, and with a realistic whine from the motors as it accelerates and decelerates. I'm more than a little reluctant to dismantle it, but adding Japanese tramways to the list of things I model would be going too far.

 

Paul

 

Don't you know anyone with a small lathe, Unimat or similar, who would skim the wheels for you?

[Flying Pig]

This is very impressive work, Paul. I can't wait to see it in gleaming red (much nicer than the alloy finish of the 59 stock).

 

As to wheels NWSL list wheelsets down to 28" US N scale, which I think works out at a shade under 4.5mm. I don't know about availability in the UK though and the prices are a bit frightening.

[Burkitt]

Thanks Flying Pig, train red with gold letters should look smart indeed.

Of course, now you've gone and given me the dilemma of whether to cancel my order with Parkside and splash out on the NWSL wheels. As you say, the prices are rather high, though at least they are for packs of four axles. Probably not worth it for a half millimetre difference, though.

 

Paul

[BernardTPM]

If you've ordered solid disc 5.1mm wheels then the reason you can buy them is because several thousand were needed for N gauge underground stock back in 1990. Before then they'd only been available with curly spokes for narrow gauge

[Burkitt]

Now I'm intrigued. Is this something to do with those N scale model tube trains made for one of the Jubilee line contractors? Do tell more...

 

Paul