Airfix B of B "Biggin Hill"

[Metropolitan]

This'll take me back to my schooldays making Airfix Spitfires and Battleships etc!

 

This old Airfix kit was cheap as chips and the parts actually look very good indeed with practically nil flash. How it will work out I know not but I am going to have a go at motorising it.

 

Ingredients are as follows:

 

1) Airfix BofB kit.

2) Comet WC chassis kit.

3) Comet generic 6'6" WB tender chassis

4) Markits WC Wheelset with Stainless Steel axles and one-side-live bogie and tender wheels.

5) DJH Motor/Gearbox combo.

6) Other luxury oddments to be sourced such as buffers and smokebox dart depending on whether the result warrants the cost.

7) Plenty of roofing lead.

 

 

 

 

Does anyone know whether Biggin Hill ever appeared in BR Blue? If not, were any other 3 window cab BofB's or WC's painted blue?

 

 

Making chassis fit the body would seem to be the only problem............................

 

 

 

 

[Barry Ten]

No light pacifics were blue, only the MNs, as far as I'm aware.

[S.A.C Martin]

Does anyone know whether Biggin Hill ever appeared in BR Blue? If not, were any other 3 window cab BofB's or WC's painted blue?

 

None of the BoB/WC locomotives appeared in BR Blue livery, of any kind. Only the Merchant Navy locomotives got blue, being class 8P.

 

However I leave you with a pic of a model of a BoB in blue - a model I made for a friend's engineering project, a few years back:

 

[Horsetan]

......6) Other luxury oddments to be sourced such as buffers and smokebox dart depending on whether the result warrants the cost.

....

 

 

There are quite a lot of good things that can be done to the body - the late Albert Goodall produced a whole host of castings and (paper) overlays, plus detailed explanatory notes and diagrams, to turn the plastic components into a proper finescale job. He even explained how you could replicate the correct 8'6" and 9' cab widths (the Airfix kit is somewhere in-between), either filing down, or cutting and inserting plastic infills.

 

Albert's paper overlays were always in the correct shade of green, and had full rivet detail painstakingly pressed out by him. I still keep a small stock; I could photocopy the reverse (which was fully illustrated) for you, but it would be your job to press the rivets and spraypaint the paper!

 

He also did longer paper overlays (in blue) to help you lengthen the bodysides to replicate the original airsmoothed "MN" form.

 

EDIT: Albert Goodall's complete range of Bulleid castings are still available at selected shows (e.g. Woking, Tolworth) via his widow Shirley. There is also a list of what's available, and she gets considerable help from other Bulleid enthusiasts in keeping the castings range going. More often than not, you will see them running the trade stand for her. Prices haven't really changed since the 1980s!

 

Shirley stopped doing the paper overlays after Albert's death, partly because she felt she did not have the expertise to consistently press out rivet detail, day in , day out.

[Metropolitan]

There are quite a lot of good things that can be done to the body - the late Albert Goodall produced a whole host of castings and (paper) overlays, plus detailed explanatory notes and diagrams, to turn the plastic components into a proper finescale job. He even explained how you could replicate the correct 8'6" and 9' cab widths (the Airfix kit is somewhere in-between), either filing down, or cutting and inserting plastic infills.

 

Albert's paper overlays were always in the correct shade of green, and had full rivet detail painstakingly pressed out by him. I still keep a small stock; I could photocopy the reverse (which was fully illustrated) for you, but it would be your job to press the rivets and spraypaint the paper!

 

He also did longer paper overlays (in blue) to help you lengthen the bodysides to replicate the original airsmoothed "MN" form.

 

EDIT: Albert Goodall's complete range of Bulleid castings are still available at selected shows (e.g. Woking, Tolworth) via his widow Shirley. There is also a list of what's available, and she gets considerable help from other Bulleid enthusiasts in keeping the castings range going. More often than not, you will see them running the trade stand for her. Prices haven't really changed since the 1980s!

 

Shirley stopped doing the paper overlays after Albert's death, partly because she felt she did not have the expertise to consistently press out rivet detail, day in , day out.

 

Thanks for that! The Bulleid Societies web site is fantastic. I'm in awe of the 31/2" and 7" live steam modellers!!! Think I'll sell the house just to be able to own one of those beautiful pieces of model engineering!!

 

What was the purpose of the paper overlays? The Airfix body has rivets already?

[Mallard60022]

[quote name='Metropolitan' timestamp='1290175323' post='261084']

This'll take me back to my schooldays making Airfix Spitfires and Battleships etc!

 

This old Airfix kit was cheap as chips and the parts actually look very good indeed with practically nil flash. How it will work out I know not but I am going to have a go at motorising it.

Making chassis fit the body would seem to be the only problem........................ ....

 

Hi. The present owner of Comet Models (Artisan100 is it, of this Parish) did this conversion many years ago and I'm sure would give you any tips required re the chassis body mating process. (When he has recovered from Warley that is:unsure:)

36E

[Horsetan]

....What was the purpose of the paper overlays? The Airfix body has rivets already?

 

The Kitmaster/Airfix/Dapol rivets are all wrong, according to the late Mr. Goodall. That's why he did his overlays. They've got all the rivet detail in all the right places. And he even included overlays for the smoke deflectors - short, standard, and long.

 

The roof should be fairly flat, not rounded on top, and front footplate/bufferbeam are also at the wrong levels.

 

I kid you not, he wrote a mass of notes on what you could do in terms of improvements. PM me your address, and I'll get a set photocopied for you.

[James]

There's ana excellent chapter in Tim Shackleton's book Plastic Bodied Locomotives on exactly thi subject - inlcuding body overlays.

[Metropolitan]

The Kitmaster/Airfix/Dapol rivets are all wrong, according to the late Mr. Goodall. That's why he did his overlays. They've got all the rivet detail in all the right places. And he even included overlays for the smoke deflectors - short, standard, and long.

 

 

I kid you not, he wrote a mass of notes on what you could do in terms of improvements. PM me your address, and I'll get a set photocopied for you.

 

What: Too many rivets? Or too few? Or are they the wrong type? Has Mr Goodall counted the rivets properly? Think I'll pass on this kit if it's that bad.

 

Has he done any overlays for a Metropolitan Manning Wardle because I am sure the kit I have is one rivet short!!

[Captain Kernow]

What: Too many rivets? Or too few? Or are they the wrong type? Has Mr Goodall counted the rivets properly? Think I'll pass on this kit if it's that bad.

John, the Tim Shackleton book is interesting - you'd definitely like if, if you haven't got it already... Simon at the Titfield Thunderbolt book shop would undoubtedly be happy to sell you a copy!

[Metropolitan]

To be serious for a mo', whilst I am very grateful for all the advice, this build is intended as nothing more than the construction of a cheap old airfix kit for fun. I never expected it to be an accurate model just as I don't expect any of the Spitfires, Hurricanes, Thunderbolts, Gneisenau's and Scharnhorsts that I built as a lad were rivet perfect or dimensionally perfect..

 

So, forgive me in that whilst I am grateful for Horsetans kind offer, I don't intend to put that kind of effort into the old girl!

 

On the other hand, (and here's the real reason), I must admit to being absolutely rubbish at sticking plastic kits together!!!!!!! The glue just seems to get everywhere and the whole thing ends in a molten mess or covered in fingerprints!! So hopefully this thread should be a laugh if nothing else!! (In view of which I will definately be ordering the book! Thanks!)

 

On chewing it over I've decided to name the loco "RMWeb" and I will be commissioning my own design of plate from Guilplates tomorrow. I will also be designing a suitable livery! The loco will be auctioned and the proceeds donated to this excellent site!

 

The naming ceremony will take place on this thread in due course!! I will ask the good CK to say a few words........

 

 

[SRman]

I motorised one Airfix BoB many, many years ago, using a Triang "shorty" Princess chassis with Bulleid wheels and the Airfix trailing truck. Of course, it is way too crude for running on a more modern DCC layout, but I still keep it on the display shelves.

 

Another conversion I did was to use two Airfix bodies, cut off-centre through the firebox area then joined to achieve Merchant Navy length. I also heated the sides with boiling water to curve them more and widened the base and cab sides slightly, and modified the smoke deflectors with additional plastic. The chassis and tender came from a wrenn rebuilt WC with scratchbuilt brass sides and front top added to the tender. This one was painted blue and lined white/black/white using LNER lining. Like the previous one, this one now resides on the shelves.

 

One trick I used with both was to file the insides of the leading, top and trailing edges of the plastic smoke deflectors to present a thinner edge, disguising the actual thickness.

 

The Airfix/Kitmaster BoB may not be entirely accurate but it still looks like what is supposed to!

[Arthur]

 It is possible, here's one I did (several years) earlier:

 

 

 

 

One of those planned, simple, projects that kinda got out of hand. There's little Airfix left, just the basic loco body, which has etched cab window frames and deflectors, turned smokebox dart, sprung buffers, AWS battery box, new lights, etc. The chassis is, I think, Kemilway, with a Mashima can motor and Romford wheels. The tender is from a Crownline etched kit.

 

Arthur

[Horsetan]

What: Too many rivets? ....

 

Too many.

 

Has Mr Goodall counted the rivets properly? Think I'll pass on this kit if it's that bad.

 

Has he done any overlays for a Metropolitan Manning Wardle because I am sure the kit I have is one rivet short!!

 

Just as well he's dead that you can afford to be so flippant. He made the Bulleid Pacifics his life's work.

[Ceptic]

Too many.

 

 

 

Just as well he's dead that you can afford to be so flippant. He made the Bulleid Pacifics his life's work.

 

 

Quite so, Horsetan, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

Albert Goodall was a truly dedicated enthusiast, and expert, on all things to do with Bulleid's locos.

 

I'm sure that they're many more amateur experts out there, regarding other railway's locos (and stock), but, how many have taken it upon themselves to put the record straight ?

.

Albert G. did, with his observations, notes, photos, magazine articles on loco / tender conversions. In the meantime, introducing, and always adding to, his loco detailing bits and pieces.

 

From his early days of writing pages into the '60s Model Railway Constructor, to his last days, as an acknowledged, guiding, advisor to Hornby, in their development of their Merchant Navy (Where would they be, today, without it ?),.....Albert had a love for what he did,.... so, please, Metropolitan.... don't decry him.

 

Regards to all.

[2ManySpams]

Quite so, Horsetan, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

Albert Goodall was a truly dedicated enthusiast, and expert, on all things to do with Bulleid's locos.

 

I'm sure that they're many more amateur experts out there, regarding other railway's locos (and stock), but, how many have taken it upon themselves to put the record straight ?

.

Albert G. did, with his observations, notes, photos, magazine articles on loco / tender conversions. In the meantime, introducing, and always adding to, his loco detailing bits and pieces.

 

From his early days of writing pages into the '60s Model Railway Constructor, to his last days, as an acknowledged, guiding, advisor to Hornby, in their development of their Merchant Navy (Where would they be, today, without it ?),.....Albert had a love for what he did,.... so, please, Metropolitan.... don't decry him.

 

Regards to all.

 

Well said Ceptic and Horsetan.

 

I met Albert's widow at Uckfield show a few years back and was in awe at the huge folder of Albert's notes she quickly flicked through. It's not often you see that degree of dedication today in a world consumed by quick fixes and reality TV.

[roythebus]

I remember liasing with Albert in my days at the Kings Cross shop in 1968ish, when he used to do paper inlays for the etched nameplates.

[Horsetan]

I remember liasing with Albert in my days at the Kings Cross shop in 1968ish, when he used to do paper inlays for the etched nameplates.

 

The paper shields are still available from Shirley at shows.

[Metropolitan]

Too many.

 

 

 

Just as well he's dead that you can afford to be so flippant. He made the Bulleid Pacifics his life's work.

 

[Admin edit: unnecessary comment removed] Sorry, but I just can't take the number of rivets on a Bulleid loco too seriously! I honestly don't mean any disrespect to Albert or anyone else but counting rivets just ain't my kind of thing! I am in awe of Albert and his like that go to so much trouble for perfection of an irrelevance. The point being that, if the airfix kit is wrong; it's wrong. If you want a perfect BofB buy a Hornby, But sticking paper overlays on this old kit?. No way! This is a hobby. It is of no consequence. It's just an old kit that I intend to build and motorise for fun. Once the number of rivets becomes important all the fun goes out the window.

 

It doesn't matter how many rivets there are on a model BofB! What matters is that it looks like a BofB and runs well. Those that care about rivets have my respect but I reserve the right to enjoy the hobby in the way that I see fit,

[James]

I am in awe of Albert and his like that go to so much trouble for perfection of an irrelevance.

It's not an irrelevance; this persuit (sp?) of perfection is why kits and RTR have improved over the years. Although you may not appreciate the number of rivets the fact that people have cared has pushed the hobby forward and this has meant overall standards have become much higher.

[Metropolitan]

It's not an irrelevance; this persuit (sp?) of perfection is why kits and RTR have improved over the years. Although you may not appreciate the number of rivets the fact that people have cared has pushed the hobby forward and this has meant overall standards have become much higher.

 

Hi James

 

I think there is a big, big difference when buying, and paying for a modern RTR and building an ancient old Airfix kit. Count the rivets if you wish. Maybe, if absolute fidelity is of the greatest import, you should consider the wheels and the distance between them?

[hayfield]

[ It's just an old kit that I intend to build and motorise for fun. Once the number of rivets becomes important all the fun goes out the window.

 

Those that care about rivets have my respect but I reserve the right to enjoy the hobby in the way that I see fit,

 

John I agree with you, sometimes you just want to build something just for the pleasure building it. Nothing wrong with that as there is nothing wrong building an exact replica.

[edcayton]

 

 

It doesn't matter how many rivets there are on a model BofB! What matters is that it looks like a BofB and runs well. Those that care about rivets have my respect but I reserve the right to enjoy the hobby in the way that I see fit,

And this from the man who bought the Golden Age A4? Of course you have the right to enjoy the hobby the way you see fit, but so do others.

 

Ed

[James]

I think there is a big, big difference when buying, and paying for a modern RTR and building an ancient old Airfix kit.

There is but my point was more those who research the prototype and push boundaries with models have helped the hobby no end!

 

Maybe, if absolute fidelity is of the greatest import, you should consider the wheels and the distance between them?

I do

[Oldddudders]

Come on, chaps. This is a thread about a seasoned metal-kit builder trying his skills on a plastic thingie from year minus-several. Met admits this is unfamiliar territory, so is pushing his own envelope, which surely deserves some credit. The likely outcome is a loco that will run well - Met knows the score there - and will be inescapably a Bulleid Pacific.

 

Elsewhere on RMWeb, a modeller who is much more capable than me (hardly a world shortage of such folk!) says that in his view, if it looks like a Black 5, then it's probably a Black 5. "Biggin Hill" will almost certainly be a good loco in operational terms, and unquestionably a BP. It's particularly difficult to confuse with anyone else's designs.

 

The late Mr Goodall and his admirable works have an honorable place in this world, but let's not rubbish models a little wide of his super-accurate mark just because they don't quite measure up.