ozzyo Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 Hello all, as you will see this is a part build of a Finney curved frame Bulldog, so it will only show the finishing of the job. The front of the frames and bogie, as you can see it has the inside valve gear in place and Alan Harris wheels The rear of the frames, you can see the compensation beam inside the frames, if I were building it I would have probably have gone for springing on the drivers, but I'm not going to change it now The frames from the front, not a lot of room in there, you can also see that the crankpin need to be shortened The first job was to remove the brake gear, this was held in place with 12BA screws and 14BA nuts The drivers and valve gear removed from the frames. Painting the wheels and valve gear will be fun, the rear ones will be OK. But the front ones???????????? The complete bogie off the frames. I'm thinking about some form of side control for this but that's a short way off When I had dropped the drivers out to see where the plungers would go I found that the plunger pick-up hole had been etched where the compensation beams run on the inside of the frames (that's a but unusual For Martin Finney)! I had noticed this before I dropped the wheels and drew the outside and inside of the wheel rims on the frames, so out with the drills and drill the new hole lower down OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 You've got to add your name to the thread title now mate . Makes it easier to find it. Hello Steve, I've now done that, but if you click on your name on the top tool bar and then go to my content you will find it, that's how I do it for any thing that I've posted in, it may be different on your Iphone. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 Hello all, I forgot to ask at the start of the Bulldog thread but I'm after some photos of this loco at the end of its days, or at least post war. The loco is 3335. Thanks for any help OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 Hello all, as you all know I clean my builds with an ultrasonic cleaner to help with the cleaning. To show how well it can do the job here are some photos. Some new fluid on the left and some that has been used on the right The same but the one on the right has had a shake The new stuff on the left after one use and about 3 hours settling. I would not have said that the parts were dirty, but the cleaning fluid tells me something else. New one on the left. The ultrasonic cleaning will remove any oil or grease from all parts, so you will have to paint them as soon as possible after letting them dry. I let them dry on the radiator for a few hours. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Is the Ultrasonic done after a session in your shot blasting cabinet too? You say fluid rather than water too so is there something special in there? I've never looked at the fluid out of mine before I poor it from the tank down the drain, maybe I should! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 Is the Ultrasonic done after a session in your shot blasting cabinet too? You say fluid rather than water too so is there something special in there? I've never looked at the fluid out of mine before I poor it from the tank down the drain, maybe I should! Hello Craig, all, i normal wash the parts with Cillit Bang (red) and dry them and then grit blast them. Then it's in to the ultrasonic cleaner. I do use an additive to help in the ultrasonic bath it's about 1 per cent of the cleaner to 1L of water and it can be used a good few times. I would always check before poring the tanks content down the drain, just to make sure that no bits have dropped off! OzzyO. PS. have just reread my post, I will let you know the name of the additive later today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 Hello Craig, all, the name of the ultrasonic cleaning fluid is Citranox IIRC I got it from/off a well known auction site for about £20 for 1gallon (3.8 litres). When you only use approx 40ml to make up 2 litres so it will go a long way, I would say that you will get a better and cleaner job by using some sort of cleaning fluid as well as water. I use the fluid at a temp. of approx 60deg.C warm enough to help remove any oil or grease but not hot enough to break any glue or low melt bonds. Before using the ultrasonic cleaner I degauss (I think that's the right spelling) the fluid for about 15mins. that's what it told me to do in my instructions so that's what I do. Before decanting it back into the bottle I strain it through a J cloth (or some thing like), I did at one time try a cheap water filter, it took a while for it to go through but you could only use the filter a couple of times. The fluid can be used a number of times, when it's exhausted you can tell by how long it takes to clean the parts. HTH OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Hello all, In Sandy's thread he's building the D.A. kit and I'm finishing off a M.F, one. I do like the inside frames of the bogie in the D.A. kit. As in the M.F. kit this is what you get and have to paint it to suit with the wheels in place In one of my last posts I did mention about the vale gear and the wheels being all in place, well this is what they looked like after a quick blast of primer This was what I came up with to stop the black paint from getting on to the valve gear And after the black paint was applied with the mask in place After the mask was removed After the mask was removed and the red applied to the vale gear OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Painting all ready mate, You will have it up and running in no time. I haven't found any pics in my collection though sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikitriki Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 OzzyO I presume you brush-painted the red of the inside valve gear. What paint did you use? Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Hello Richard, all, yes the valve gear was brush painted with some acrylic paint I got from Games Workshop? the colour is called Hollyberry, just got the cross-heads to paint, I'm using the same make of paint but this ones called Raven. Steve I want to have it running by mid week, just got to sort out the bogie pivot and some side control springing. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Hello all, a bit of a dark day as every thing seemed to go wrong, the Raven acrylic paint was to thick for what I wanted, so it was out with Humbrol No.85 that was a bit thick so in with some Ronson lighter fluid to thin it down a bit. Then it was onto painting the cross-heads and the inside of the wheels The crank axle is now finished with the taper pin tapped in place for the last time (I hope) and cut to length In this photo of the bogie you can see a screw on the inside of the bogie pivot slot this is for the side control spring to fit on (there is one on this side as well). I did think that they were 12BA so I could use Slater's horn block springs. But no 10BA so to big, Well the paint was drying so it was on to the lathe and this is what turned up (If it was so simple). The pivot bearing has two pins to locate the springs (not a good practice to just let the springs ride on a round section of bar), the hole was drilled and reamed to 1/8". The pivot screw was turned to .123" with a 6BA screw thread on the end If I was doing the build from the start, I would have had the bogie pivot pin attached to the frames. This was the full-size practice as if the nut dropped off, the pivot pin was still in place to hold the bogie in place!!!! OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Hello Craig, all, the name of the ultrasonic cleaning fluid is Citranox IIRC I got it from/off a well known auction site for about £20 for 1gallon (3.8 litres). When you only use approx 40ml to make up 2 litres so it will go a long way, I would say that you will get a better and cleaner job by using some sort of cleaning fluid as well as water. I use the fluid at a temp. of approx 60deg.C warm enough to help remove any oil or grease but not hot enough to break any glue or low melt bonds. OzzyO. Thanks for the tips on what you use, i'd been putting an organic agent in mine - James' Sea Clean but im not sure how potent it is. I'd let the water heat up naturally in the cleaner but I may try putting warmer water in to begin. edit: Forgot to ask how long you put stuff in the bath for, im doing 480sec cycles on mine after a work session. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Thanks for the tips on what you use, i'd been putting an organic agent in mine - James' Sea Clean but im not sure how potent it is. I'd let the water heat up naturally in the cleaner but I may try putting warmer water in to begin. edit: Forgot to ask how long you put stuff in the bath for, im doing 480sec cycles on mine after a work session. Hello Craig, all, forgot to say in the post on the cleaning fluid Citranox is fruit acid based hence the citra from citric acid. On to the cleaning time, on the last clean on a set of frames it will be about 15mins. turning them over about half way through (or if I'm on the puter 30mins.). A lot will depend on how dirty the parts are, how fresh the fluid is and the size of the part(s). If you have a set of parts that have oil or grease on them put them in the cleaner last, but before you take the parts out check the surface of the fluid for oil, if there is any gently float some kitchen roll on the surface, as the last thing you would want to do is lift it through a film of oil. If you run out of cleaning fluid but have some 'red' Cillit Bang, use a good dose of this in the water, this a good second for use in the cleaner. OzzyO. Edit; I don't normally clean after each session as I work on them each day, I normal do them about once a week just using 'red' Cillit Bang. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Lovely inside motion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 What did we all do before "Jif" cream and "Cillit Bang!" Vim, or Ajax powder, anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 What did we all do before "Jif" cream and "Cillit Bang!" Barkeeper's Friend. It pre-dates etched kits by about 100 years... B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 Hello all, the only problems with Vim, Ajax powder, Barkeeper's Friend etc. is getting the last of the powder/grit off the model. They do a good job though and leave a nice matt surface for painting. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45157 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 May a non Western modeller thank you for putting up such and enjoyable and informative post. I feel I have gained an immense amount of knowledge (quite apart from enjoyment) and the fact that you not only show us the build in detail but also give all maching and material sizes is seriously handy for trying out some of the techniques. Keep up the good work and thanks again. regards Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Hello all, the only problems with Vim, Ajax powder, Barkeeper's Friend etc. is getting the last of the powder/grit off the model. They do a good job though and leave a nice matt surface for painting. I completely agree with you regarding Vim and Ajax; I found the powdery residue harder to remove than the crud on the model after building, but I've never had any of those problems with Barkeepers Friend. I reckon that the choice of cleaning agent is one of those areas, just like flux, where there are lots of right ways, but you've just got to find the one which works consistently for you. Thanks for the Citranox info, I'll get some for my ultrasonic bath. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mswjr Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Guys can i add to this about the cleaning I do alot of model engineering and i use citric acid crystals, this is available from home brew shops and you only need a little added to a couple of pints of water and it will clean off non ferrous stuff lovely even if silver soldered and the crystals will last for ages hope this helps a little,Ozzo i read your threads all the time gives me some good modelling tips i can build 5 inch gauge easy but the smaller stuff is so much harder, you make it look easy keep them pics comming. Garry mswjr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 Hello all, to reply in no order, I have not used Barkeepers Friend but it reminds me of Ajax's as a paste it may do a good job. But as I have said I've not give a go. I'm not really a G.W.R.. modeller, but that's what the customer's want to pay me for so that's what I build. I would like to build a lot of "Duchesses" or "Lizzey's" Just think of all that pipe work from the mec. lub box's. I gave the the Citric acid crystals a go once. but I couldn't get on with them. Just turned all the brass black. Wrong mix I supposes. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 Hello all, back on to the Bulldog build. Plunger pick-ups fitted (all two of them), valve gear and motor fitted, so it's on to the test track After a short while it was clear to see that some thing was rubbing. It was easy to see what, not a big job to fix just drop the slide bars out and remove about 5thou All was put back together, it's a bit of a task to get the two piston rods, valves and cross heads all in position. I'm putting the same photo on twice, the first with flash and the second without When I was checking the castings list it was obvious that some casting were missing for the body. So rather than start and have to stop work on the body I'm having a break from the Bulldog. This is what I'm filling in time on It's not mine it's a Gladiator kit, it was brought to me as it was not running well. When I first had a look at it, it may have had two wiper pick-ups touching at once. The wipers were about 1/2" - 5/8" long at the most and as the loco has to go round 4' 6" rad. curves it will need a bit of play on the drivers. This ones mine So all the wheels wipers etc. came off but not before I had marked the inside and outside of the wheels   The frames drilled for the plungers, when drilling the frame I forgot to off set the hole to the outside by about .75mm The back of one of the wheels when I took it off The back of the same wheel before it goes back on The first three drivers back in place. Before the motor goes back in place I'm going to solder all the pick-up wires to two bits of copper clad, then all I've to solder with the motor in place is the feed wires I've a couple of other jobs to do on this loco, new couplings, a new whistle and look at the buffer springs and some much needed weight. I was going to fit it in the side tanks but they have full insides, ho hum. Then it's on to a G.W.R. 46xx 4-4-2T with similar problems. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted November 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2011 lovely work as allways is your loco no 11102 a kit has well or scrach built Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 lovely work as allways is your loco no 11102 a kit has well or scrach built Hello Farren, it's scratch built, if you go to page 13 & mess 311 you will see some more of it. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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