richbrummitt Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 What are "safety chains"? In this case they prevent the brake pull rods falling off if they come detached for any reason. Wagons had safety loops to prevent the push rods catching the dirt if the bolts came out in the same way. Safety chains also used to exist on coaches (5 links either side of the main coupling) in case the main coupling failed. If you look at some of Ozzy's previous builds you can see them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hello all, this is about the best photo that I have of how the safety chains are attached to the frames and the brake cross beam. Just think, all it does is stop things dropping in the dirt, and getting mixed up with the wheels etc.. OzzyO. PS. keep up at the back!. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Hi All, Another interesting thing about the brake cross beam if you look is that the bolts that connect the linkage to the cross beams are effectively the 'wrong' way up. Logically, you would think that they would go in with the head on top so that if the bolt came undone, they would stay in place. However, they are actually fitted with the nut uppermost and a lock nut and split pin to secure it. This is to reduce the likelihood of crews scrabbling around underneath catching themselves on the protruding bolts which can smart a little bit... I hope this is of interest! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Good old Swindon, Nothing like keeping ahead of the Health & Safety brigade . Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I will be interested to see how Ozzy goes about making the chains. Did ALL locos have those, or just ex-GWR? Only this is the first I've ever seen of them, although I had seen some on a carriage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Hi Jeff, I think they are a standard fitting on the brake cross beams of the ex. GWR / BR (W) locos and tenders at 81E but I don't know about on 'foreign' lines... When you work with it, you fairly quickly find out that the GWR loco engineering ethos is very much belt AND braces though! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I think they are a standard fitting on the brake cross beams of the ex. GWR / BR (W) locos and tenders at 81E but I don't know about on 'foreign' lines... When you work with it, you fairly quickly find out that the GWR loco engineering ethos is very much belt AND braces though! it was by no means unique to the GW, but I don't believe all companies indulged. I suppose some would neither expect nor put up with bits dropping off a loco hard at work... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I will be interested to see how Ozzy goes about making the chains. Did ALL locos have those, or just ex-GWR? Only this is the first I've ever seen of them, although I had seen some on a carriage. If you look back on this thread you will find Ozzy has fitted them to all his builds. Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 I will be interested to see how Ozzy goes about making the chains. Did ALL locos have those, or just ex-GWR? Only this is the first I've ever seen of them, although I had seen some on a carriage. Why would I have to make the chains? All I have to do is use some chain that is about the right size. On some of my first locos I used some nice silver chain from a well known jeweller. Hope this helps, OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateman49 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I saw the photos of the complete Bulldog a few pages back. Here is the chassis of my effort at rebuilding a second hand Finney 'bird' series Bulldog. I now wish I'd bought a new kit as the rebuild brought its own issues but that is another story. Here is a bird's eye view if the frames showing the Finney inside motion kit as installed. I made one major mod as I didn't build the con rods as per the instructions. Each rod is made of two halves soldered together along their length. The catch is that as designed the big end encircles the crank and the motion can't be stripped down for easing if there are any pinch points when running in (there were plenty for me) or for painting. In addition, the whole of the front end motion can be taken out of the frames by releasing the large screw which is hidden under the boiler saddle. By the way the oil boxes on the top slide bars are from Pete Roles (PR Components). They add a nice touch as they are (just) visible under the boiler! If it's any use to any others, on each con rod I reversed one of the halves so that at each big end then formed an inverted U shape. I then drilled across the ends of the legs of the U with a 0.5 mm drill and I was then able to slide a pin across the gap once I'd dropped the big end down onto the crank. The cross pin is just visible on the top crank in this underneath shot which also shows how I retained the drivers. The front pair have inside springs which I cross screwed to the mainframes after mounting the crank axle and all its associated gubbins. The rear drivers have a short bolts screwed lengthways into the bottom ends of the rear edges of the rear hornblocks after the motor (ABC) axle was fitted. These are visible crossing half way over the bearings. In that way I can completely dismantle the whole motion as the brake hangers are just sprung into place. To help with the springiness I used piano wire for the cross shafts (without safety chains!). I also cheated on the Finney bogie axles by grinding off the ends as I don't like to trap the wheel sets into the loco as MF would have you do. So, the bogie wheels can also be dropped out just by undoing some more small screws which are visible on the central (home made) stretcher whioch is complete with side control springing (just visible in the slot). The saddle/cylinder front is also a separate sub assembly as shown next to the frames in the final shot. Finally please excuse the non prototypical crankpin nuts - I have some proper looking CPL ones to fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateman49 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Ps apologies as the photos could be better and the angles have made the front drivers look a bit out in the first photo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateman49 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Finally, here is the almost complete loco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 It is interesting the use of chains, I have not aded them to my builds, it would take something about as I always try and make my brake gear removeable. A hook or eye inside but I can see it being a pain to attatch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Why didn't I think of silver chain? It's available very fine and not that expensive, compared with other 7mm components, LOL. Plus silver will self-blacken........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Hello all, I must say thank you to gateman49 for putting his photos and explanation of his mods. to the inside valve gear on his Bulldog. Well done. The build looks nice so please put some more photos up on here showing some more of your work. The next job was to set my jig for the axle spacing. Why I did this I don't know as this end of the jig was set for the tender axle spacing and the other end was set for the loco axle spacing already (I must have been having a blond moment). The horn guides and axle box's that I will be using on this build. The customer supplied them so I don't know who has made them, i will be changing the hex. headed screws to normal cheese headed ones later. The first pair in place from below and above. You can see that I have fitted horn keeps in place as the horn guides as supplied did not have any of these. Setting the stops on the middle axle, I like to have these set 25thou (just over 0.6mm) above the front and rear axles. If I was doing a eight coupled loco I would do the same on the two middle axles, for a ten coupled loco the middle axle would have about 30 thou (just over 0.7mm). The front and middle horns and axle box's in place, The rear top hat bearings are still to be removed. Some bu99er has now nicked the rear bearings. I suppose it was a good job that I had another set of horn guides and axle box's to replace them with! After all the fun with the frames, I thought that it was about time that I started looking at the things the the loco would run on. Now the balance weights may not be your starting point? But the centre balance weight on the County is a bit of a beast. So to try and get it to look some thing like two thickness's of 0.7mm N/S were soldered together and then shaped like the bottom one in this photo. After the balance weights were glued in place, I had to clean up the back of the wheels. Before on the left, after on the right. For this I would normal use some wet'n'dry that is stuck down on some wood. But when I was down in my local Aldi and spotted this, a four sided diamond sharpening block (for about £8.00), Now I'm not a girl but I like diamonds (I just like lots of them in small bits), the last time I bought a big one it cost a few bob, but she still has it and I still have her by my side (twenty plus years). I'll have to given the new tool a go and see if it works OK. and I'll report on it. Once I have had more use out of it. The frames wheeled up for the first time. The plunger pick-ups on this loco are going to be the 4mm ones from Alan Gibson. So you have to solder the wires to the end of the plungers. My way of doing this is to strip the wire and then tin a short length and then bend it in a U shape. To give an idea of the scale in the photo, the rule is in 1mm graduations. This is a very bad photo trying to show how I solder the wire to the end of the pick-up. Top right soldering iron tip, middle the wire and tail of the plunger, then it's a set of self locking (large) tweezers (to act as a heat sink), what looks like a white blob is the insulating bush. [i will try and get a better photo later]. Trying to show how you get the things to fit into the frames with the wire attached (Grasshopper). It helps if you cut off any excess of the tail of the wire, so that you don't have too much to wiggle through the hole. Done. Or so I thought!!!!!! Pick ups a right pain in the ar$e (a bit like piles), More to follow next time. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Hello Matey, Gosh 01.36, you were burning the midnight oil there . Those coupling rods look the biz, are they some of Bill's ? Nice to see you have your mojo back, I'm sure it's not just me that enjoys your updates . ATB, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Ozzyo Is there a big difference in having all the axles sprung rather than just two and leaving the drive axle fixed? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Pick ups a right pain in the ar$e (a bit like piles), Thats why I have given up using them!! Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Is there a big difference in having all the axles sprung rather than just two and leaving the drive axle fixed? A single fixed axle will exactly follow any track irregularities. It is alway fun at shows to watch locos lurch sideways as the fixed axle meets the crossing gap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateman49 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Sandy Have you given up piles then? If you have what is the secret? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Thankfully, piles are something I don't suffer from. Plenty of curry and beer I think is the answer!!! Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Hello all, I'll try and answer your questions as best as I can. Martyn, I'm not sure about who makes the rods, Bill tends to pivot his rods on the crank pin. But I'll find out for you. Pete, I think that Bill has give a good answer to your question, but as the loco rides hard on it's stops on the front and rear axles so any lumps will show as a lurch, but the springs will help take out the dips, also having all wheels sprung helps with the power pick up. I also think that the locos run a bit quieter as well, has anyone else noticed this as well? Sandy, I've still to convince some of my customers about split axle pick up. I hope that this photo of soldering the wire on to the end of the plunger is a bit better. You can also see that I've cut off the tail end of the pick up wire. Two new holes drilled for the plungers. These are by the two I's. I also modified one of the frame spacers by removing about 1mm from the rear edge. This is the reason for removing the 1mm from the spacer.This lets the motor and gearbox lay down and pivot at the top of the gearbox. This is why I had to move the middle and rear pick ups. It may look like the gearbox is resting on the safety chain wire, but it is not. Honest. All the plungers now in place. In what I would call positions 1,3 & 6, as all the wheels have a front and rear position marked on the frames. The wheels and motor & gearbox in place. As you can see I'm from the one colour wire camp. If you have to colour code six wires "why"? Black wires are bad enough but red ones as well!!!!!!!!!!!! Hello Sandy. The next job is to connect the wires to the motor and do some test running, also the customer want to see the frames up and running. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I don't know why I use different coloured wires! They usually go on the wrong way anyway and I have to swap them around to get the polarity correct. These rods are not Billys but they are very nice with the forked joint and oil cups. Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Yes, the rods are lovely, I wish all steam loco rods looked as good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Hi Ozzyo, The County is looking great and ironically is at the same stage as the 12" :1' version at Didcot* - fitting the driving axle boxes! Also ironically, they are coming up with a jigging system to allow them to get all their wheels in the right place too - I shall pass on photos of your design to the 1014 project leader but he may need something a little larger... All the best, Castle *No, not the fitting of the massive electric motor and gearbox! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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