Dapol 'Western'

[Jon020]

D1015 in blue with FYE? Nice! Think I'll get the plates for D1015 from Shawplan for one of my as yet un-named and un-numbered blue Dapol Westerns!

Saw it sat there on Saturday... as we dashed by on our way to Ealing Broadway - taking youngest lad on a tour of stations using the travel card... looked to be gleaming in the sun; shame couldn't get nearer. BFYE will be lovely.

[christopher2061]

Laughable...John, you have no evidence to support your silent majority theory. You are assuming that anyone not posting about issues on websites must be 100% happy with their model(s). 

le

Dave

I'm part of the silent majority.  Or at least I was...........I bought D1056 Maroon FYE in May and it STILL hasn't pulled a proper train yet.  I won't fit the details untill I'm happy with the loco.  I've had lots of derailing issues.  Dapol told me that it was a known wheelset problem and to send it to DCC Supplies.  It still suffers from derailments and Dapol tell me it's not their loco, but it's my new (code 100) track!  Everything else runs ok.  I'd really like a blue Western but I'm not going to get one untill improvements have been made.

 

It's a lovely looking loco but I'm VERY disapointed with the performance

[SuperWHIZZO]

Yes , the Dapol 52 is a head turner- and a head scatcher perhaps not the anticipated dream purchase (for some) as it promised to be. Me ? pleased with the two Ive bought ; so much so Ive had one fitted with the delicious Howes sounds......Nice.........But  I also retain a Heljan 52 , these are looking increasingly like value for money, If you can forgive it the cab front "cowl" and the very basic buffer-springing there are aspects of it that capture the essence of a "Western" better than the Dapol model . For a kick off the Heljan 52 is a peerless runner taking all sorts of track in its stride on wheels that are bang on spec. to scale, (as many have mentioned the Dapol 52 wheels looked a bit "under-nourished" even straight out of the box !!)  I also prefer the side elevation ,cab-side window arrangement which is so prototypical of how 52`s ran a lot of the time with a window open to combat the huge green-house glass area of the cabs heat and ventilation problems.

[Gwiwer]

For those with derailing issues may I suggest at least one or two basic checks are performed if not already done?  This has solved my problems with no need to return locomotives at all.

 

Place the loco fully detailed (i.e. with the brake rods added) on a perfectly flat surface.  Rotate the bogies by hand.  Do they both rotate to the fullest extent in both directions without any resistance?  I found that mine variously offered a little resistance and that this matched the tendency to derail.  In other words a bogie which was a little reluctant to turn fully in one direction would sometimes derail when asked to travel through a point or curve in that direction.

 

I found two causes.  At the leading (outer) end of the bogie the brake rod moulding was just touching the side element of the valence in a couple of cases.  Clipping off the offending and unseen part of the rod makes no visual difference to the loco but improves clearance and bogie swing.  So far so good.  Of three Westerns (six bogies) that cured the problem on two of three problematic bogies.

 

It took a little more work to find the cause of the other problem.  With the rods visibly clear of any obstruction there was still a point at which one bogie caught on something.  I traced this to a little moulding flash on the suspension both on the bogie and body-mounted elements.  This was easily rubbed down and again leaves no visible trace.  The bogie now rotates freely.

 

The air tanks inside the valence can be very close to the coupler arm but will not foul it if everything is aligned correctly.  If you ask these locos to tackle first radius curves the brake rod might also contact the air tank at the extremity of bogie rotation.  If the end is clipped off the chance of this happening is reduced.

 

The result?  Three out of three Westerns now run reliably and have no problem relating to their design and construction.  There is  one spot where I had to adjust the track levelling as the line comes off a gradient to level but that I put down to quality of track laying and should really have been dealt with a long time ago!

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

I'm part of the silent majority.  Or at least I was...........I bought D1056 Maroon FYE in May and it STILL hasn't pulled a proper train yet.  I won't fit the details untill I'm happy with the loco.  I've had lots of derailing issues.  Dapol told me that it was a known wheelset problem and to send it to DCC Supplies.  It still suffers from derailments and Dapol tell me it's not their loco, but it's my new (code 100) track!  Everything else runs ok.  I'd really like a blue Western but I'm not going to get one untill improvements have been made.

 

It's a lovely looking loco but I'm VERY disapointed with the performance

 

Chris..as Gwiwer suggests above, you're going to have to get fairly handy with diagnosis and rectification measures if you want to get ongoing pleasure from some of these models. We all know that you shouldn't need to....but.  

 

Dave

[D1030western musketeer]

To many problems in this day of age on a great looking model have kept me busy detailing my Heljan fleet up.

At least they run straight from the box.

 

Richard.

[two tone green]

Seems strange that with Dapol Dave's trips to China to over see the development and production of these models that so many faults are emerging.

[luke_stevens]

Seems strange that with Dapol Dave's trips to China to over see the development and production of these models that so many faults are emerging.

 

It's all the things that get done when DapolDave wasn't there. DapolDave would agree an instruction and then hope it was carried-out/ implemented/ translated correctly. Not being there all the time many decisions would have to taken without him, and I don't men the big decisions: little thoughts, tolerances, fitting, tooling considerations. And thankfully the "faults" are fundamentally minor. It looks like a Western, and more like a Western than anything else we've every had. And runs well for most of the purchasers.

 

Thanks again DapolDave

 

Luke

[two tone green]

But they did get to look at samples and check things.

[luke_stevens]

But they did get to look at samples and check things.

 

Yes, but if you check back in these pages there were a number of times China agreed changes then provided a sample with other things changed (often back to things that had already been corrected). If DapolDave had lived next to in the factory he'd have caught most of the issues. But he has a life! Too much could not be monitored, on a daily basis.

 

If you'd ever watched "Grand Designs" you'll have a good idea of all the little things that can happen if the client isn't on site every single moment.

 

Considering that DapolDave was trying to do (produce the best Western ever) he did an amazing job.

 

Luke 

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

...the buck still stops in the same place Luke.

 

Dave

[darren01]

Hi

Last week i went down to see my foks and my father has 4 Dapole western, all of them ran well out of the box,But one did fail after an hour and was sent back to DCC for them to have a look at,As the lights stopped working.

Having now seen them in the flesh and looking at my Dads photo he took,It is one of the best versions of a western to date,Looks right,run right,Dapole are on to a winner with this model and it shows with the amount snapped up.

Darren

[the penguin of doom]

Just a thought, and it should be borne in mind I've only seen a Dapol Western in the flesh and not running etc. Will there not be an increasingly cheap supply of Heljan Westerns floating about? Those who have the skills to do so, could make use of the Heljan chassis with the Dapol body?

 

Of course, I know you shouldn't have to and the price belies the result etc, but it seems like there are many on here who want(ed) the ultimate Western. It seems to me, those who want it are going to have to do a bit of work to achieve it.

 

Me? I've got an old Lima one I'm going to carve up and add the brassmasters kit and a central motor. It might not be up to a Dapjan, (or Helpol), Western, but it'll be MY ultimate Western.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[Horsetan]

...my foks .....

Pardon??

 

...Will there not be an increasingly cheap supply of Heljan Westerns floating about? ...

 

 

It would appear not.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Horsetan

[Jon020]

. Will there not be an increasingly cheap supply of Heljan Westerns floating about? 

I was wondering that Sean... having just looked at Model Rail and George Dent's lovely weathering job... but no they're still quite expensive

Jon

[two tone green]

Are you an engineer / designer Luke?

[the penguin of doom]

I was wondering that Sean... having just looked at Model Rail and George Dent's lovely weathering job... but no they're still quite expensive

Jon

Yes, all three of those look stunning don't they Jon?

 

Ah well, I'd have thought the new kid in the block would have bought the Heljan price down but if that's not the case then it would be a very expensive project to mate the two.

 

It's still a nice thought though......

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

Edited August 18, 2013 by the penguin of doom

[Southernman46]

Superb sounds there BR(S).  If there's anything that will lift the soul it's Maybach Music!

 

Nice - in comparison to "Deltic" music which makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end (in a good way)

 

The diesel versions of classical & rock music ??

[Gwiwer]

The Heljan ones are perfectly fit for purpose as others have discussed.  They don't look quite as good as the Dapol ones but if you want to pull trains of more than about 10 coaches He;jan is your option.  Heljan are also heavier and for my money their maroon livery is a better match to my memory.  Dapol's version is perfectly acceptable as a slightly faded version and matches many published images.  Dapol's Western pulls around 10 Mk1 coaches or the equivalent.  That's more than enough for most of us.  It looks better than Heljan's but no mass-produced locomotives fault-free.  Not even the 12" : 1' scale ones  Take your pick.  I'm happy with a mixed fleet of both and am even happier that I can now retire the Hornby ones!

[Horsetan]

Are you an engineer / designer Luke?

Well, he's got the same name as the bloke I went to school with in the 1980s.....and he was very keen on engineering.

[BrushVeteran]

"Yes, but if you check back in these pages there were a number of times China agreed changes then provided a sample with other things changed (often back to things that had already been corrected). "

 

"If you'd ever watched "Grand Designs" you'll have a good idea of all the little things that can happen if the client isn't on site every single moment."

 

 

Luke 

 

Luke

 

I think you have summed up the China aspect of the business quite well.

 

When you then add into the equation production slots etc you will see that everything has to be specified down to the last minute detail. China will only produce what is written down!

[bubbles2]

Hi

Last week i went down to see my foks and my father has 4 Dapole western, all of them ran well out of the box,But one did fail after an hour and was sent back to DCC for them to have a look at,As the lights stopped working.

Having now seen them in the flesh and looking at my Dads photo he took,It is one of the best versions of a western to date,Looks right,run right,Dapole are on to a winner with this model and it shows with the amount snapped up.

Darren

This is the same problem I have with my Western Enterprise bought in April and its been blowing the small PCB which controls the lighting, but it will not run with the PCB not in place. Its been back to DCC twice complete and had a chassis replacement and I have lost count of the number of times Andy has sent me replacement PCBs (also replacing the same parts in my Dapol class 22s which had also failed,) but still the fault persisted. 

I thought it may have been the fault of my controlers which are home made but have been fine with all other makes of loco and have been in use for over 20 years now, also I had the same fault running on an H&M Clipper controler but I understand these are known to spike high voltages.

The most recent failure has been running on a Gaugemaster controler which I bought specially to test the Western as this is the make that DCC use for testing.

Andy at DCC has now sent me an experimental PCB which he has made up and I fitted it on Friday, that has been good so far.

Interestingly the fault only occurs when the Western is coupled up to a train, my trains tend to be 8 to 9 coaches or more, this has been raising the current taken from @ 0.17A to 0.24A or more.

I wonder how many model Westerns are pottering around lightly loaded on short trains waiting for this fault to surface when more is demanded of them.

I must also add that DCC supplies and Andy have provided an excellent warrenty service. 

[D1056WesternSultan]

Nice - in comparison to "Deltic" music which makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end (in a good way)

 

The diesel versions of classical & rock music ??

Absolutely.

 

I have strong memories of trying to avoid the wedding between Charles and Diana by spending the day on the East Coast mainline near Offord Darcy with camera an tape recorder.  It was a beautiful day and the skylarks were singing.  Thank goodness for nostalgia.

[luke_stevens]

Are you an engineer / designer Luke?

 

I've a Masters in Manufacturing Systems Engineering, so pretty much yes!

 

Studied in Sheffield for '88 to '94 so I had this stuff coming out of my ears, historical examples to analyse, trouble shoot, identify up-coming problems, etc.

 

Luke

M.Eng MSE, B.Eng Material Engineering, OG '76-88

Edited August 18, 2013 by luke_stevens

[Phil Bullock]

 

I wonder how many model Westerns are pottering around lightly loaded on short trains waiting for this fault to surface when more is demanded of them.

 

Hope this train 2 mins in was enough to test ours

 

 

Will struggle to get any more on the layout!

 

Phil