DLT's NG Workbench - Back to The Hunslets

[Mike Boucher]

  Well probably lost one as a result but may well have gained many others from the glue it all together camp.

 

I am in agreement, in part, with you that forming louvres from brass sheet would be difficult (though not impossible and there are harder tasks) but have seen them well represented by half etched sheets. The problem with arguing that a resin cast is more difficult than a whitemetal one is lost on me. In terms of detail the metal one is going to be crisper and at least it can be soldered on.

 

This is no beginner kit - as seen by the chassis construction. Reducing the body to that level without similar compromise of the chassis just seems perverse. As if the designer just gave up on the job and took an easy route out to launch the kit.

 

I'll admit I'm disappointed that the bonnet is resin.  But, I think its an interesting enough prototype, and that frame looks marvelous, that I'll still be saving my $$ to get one.

[DLT]

Gentlemen,

The resin cast bonnet is absolutely fit for purpose.  The level of detail on it is excellent, and its shape is totally square.  

 

I would doubt that whitemetal casting is the best method of (a. achieving that level of accuracy/repeatability, or (b. casting a hollow, thin-walled, square box.  

Etching is totally unsuitable for producing either the angle OR the depth of the louvres and other multi-depth bonnet detail.  Resin casting is FAR from being a "cop-out".

 

The overall quality of this kit shows that the designer thought long and hard about his methods; detail casting are exquisite last-wax brass, and there is no whitemetal in the kit.  Adopting whitemetal would mean adding another process, and presumably yet another outside supplier to rely on.

 

There are only four resin castings, the bonnet, radiator, gearbox and fuel tank.  Two of these need to be drilled, and this can easily be done by hand.  The only drawback is the lack of weight, but there's plenty of room inside the bonnet for adding strips of lead.

 

Being so light in colour, the resin detail doesn't show up well in my photo, so here's the manufacturers photo again.

 

Hope this helps.  Nobody should be put off by the resin, quite the opposite I suggest.

I have no hesitation in recommending this kit; its perhaps not one for the absolute beginner, but no kit of such a prototype is ever going to be simple.

 

All the best, Dave.

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by DLT

[Craigw]

Dave,

 

I have to agree with you about the resin casting. In this case it seems like a very sensible use of the medium and indeed the right one for the job. 

 

I have an interest in military modelling and the use of resin casting in that field is widespread and at an advanced level compared to this field. I have some detailing sets by K59 productions for a Tamiya Marder that are simply amazing.

 

Enjoying the build a great deal Dave, it really does look good.

 

Regards,

 

Craig

[DLT]

Enjoying the build a great deal Dave, it really does look good.

Regards,Craig

Thanks very much Craig, sorry its not a bit faster!

Dave.

Edited February 22, 2014 by DLT

[Erithian]

 Besides it has been spoiled by the use of more resin. I just do not understand the cop out from an otherwise very intricate chassis built in brass to that lump of uncertain detail where a brass etch or two could have provided much crisper detail. Even a white metal cast would have been better and at least contributed some weight. I must admit to having "gone off" this kit entirely. A complete let down AFAIC.

Are you on some form of class A substance?!

 

The bonnet was originally going to be etched construction however the louvred detail didn't look right in flat form (not as noticeable on the 4mm version). Forming the louvres consistently was perceived to be out of reach to the 'average modeller' even the pattern for the casting took a few attempts to get right.

 

As for the choice of medium it's right one considering the level of detail.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Erithian

[DLT]

Moving on.  

 

Most of the part for the cab interior are done, and stood in place for a quick photo:

 

 

They won't be fixed in place yet, probably not until after painting.

 

That's all for now,

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 8, 2022 by DLT

[N15class]

Lovely little loco, and cracking work.

[Kenton]

 

Are you on some form of class A substance?!

 

No. Do you have a mental age of a 5 year old? I don't really think that even though you clearly show the same level of comprehension with that remark. So what have we proved with that little exchange? A forum is no place for insult throwing.

 

Back to the kit.

 

Resin has two major drawbacks It cannot be soldered, and there is no weight to it. In addition to the impression of it producing dulled detail. I don't accept the argument that forming brass is not up to the ability of an "average" modeller. Firstly the chassis is not in that class and secondly who is this "average" with the dumbed down talent and for who the kit was designed.

 

Making a pattern for casting is a skill, I have not suggested otherwise. However the material selected metal or resin makes little difference you require a master to make either.

 

I am afraid it remains my opinion that the detail in the resin version is no improvement over that which could be obtained in cast and with, undoubtedly more effort and skill on the part of designer and modeller, brass.

 

My opinion applies to resin in any kit and no doubt there are many modellers out there who love the idea of gluing metal kits together - OK this is one for them. I am afraid I don't so although I was really impressed with the elegance of the chassis and rather like the prototype I'm afraid this is one kit I shall be avoiding. Probably no loss to many there are plenty of others who do not have such principles and will happily build a metal kit with glue.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Kenton

[Tigermoth]

  No. Do you have a mental age of a 5 year old? I don't really think that even though you clearly show the same level of comprehension with that remark. So what have we proved with that little exchange? A forum is no place for insult throwing.

 

Back to the kit.

 

Resin has two major drawbacks It cannot be soldered, and there is no weight to it. In addition to the impression of it producing dulled detail. I don't accept the argument that forming brass is not up to the ability of an "average" modeller. Firstly the chassis is not in that class and secondly who is this "average" with the dumbed down talent and for who the kit was designed.

 

Making a pattern for casting is a skill, I have not suggested otherwise. However the material selected metal or resin makes little difference you require a master to make either.

 

I am afraid it remains my opinion that the detail in the resin version is no improvement over that which could be obtained in cast and with, undoubtedly more effort and skill on the part of designer and modeller, brass.

 

My opinion applies to resin in any kit and no doubt there are many modellers out there who love the idea of gluing metal kits together - OK this is one for them. I am afraid I don't so although I was really impressed with the elegance of the chassis and rather like the prototype I'm afraid this is one kit I shall be avoiding. Probably no loss to many there are plenty of others who do not have such principles and will happily build a metal kit with glue.

Before deciding why don't you wait until it's finished or otherwise make your own bonnet ? You seem very negative even in my post about the Slaters wheels you gave the impression that i was being fussy in refusing wheels that don't turn round and here you are condemming an excellent kit because the bonnet is in resin and not exactly how you would like it. You must be an excellent craftsman with standards far higher than the normal mortal human being. Be positive and try looking on the bright side, it does exist you know. 

Edited February 23, 2014 by Tigermoth

[Kenton]

 

Before deciding why don't you wait until it's finished or otherwise make your own bonnet ? You seem very negative even in my post about the Slaters wheels you gave the impression that i was being fussy in refusing wheels that don't turn round and here you are condemming an excellent kit because the bonnet is in resin and not exactly how you would like it. You must be an excellent craftsman with standards far higher than the normal mortal human being. Be positive and try looking on the bright side, it does exist you know. 

Without wishing to go too far off/cross topic - you will see on there I was not implying you were fussy merely that if you found fault with a product (and quite clearly you had and I expressed that I was also concerned about it though had not observed it) then you should contact the manufacturer/supplier. I had the impression that most other contributors were in agreement with me there.

 

As for my standards you misunderstand. I build kits every day but I cannot claim that they are up to even DLT's competence, but they seem to satisfy my clients. Perhaps their standards are also low and it serves a purpose, I recognise not everyone wants perfection or has the time, inclination or desire to build a kit.

 

So I consider myself an "average" kit builder. Whatever that may be.

 

This is NOT an average kit. I don't think it was ever really seriously suggested as being average. It is because of that I do not understand the motive behind the resin. What has been done is a form of dumbing down making one small part of the otherwise challenging kit "easy" on the builder. It is not that the etched route could not be done, it was that it was not thought to be done by the average builder. I also believe that the end result detracts from the rest of the kit. A simple opinion which it seems everyone else disagrees with. That is fine. My principle objection to resin remains that it cannot be soldered as part of a "metal" kit construction - that will never change until they find a resin that can be. So yes I have turned negative about this kit, having previously been very positive. That is nothing to do with DLT's outstanding build of the kit, but everything to do with the quality of the kit.

 

I've made my point and I am happy to leave it at that.

[DLT]

Yet again I'm deviating from the kit as intended; to give it a more enclosed cab similar to Moelwyn had, with sliding windows.

Here's a (very) rough sketch to show what I intend.

 

A supply of 15thou brass has arrived from Squires, and quickly marked up.  The sliding window frames are made from some etched droplight frames left over from Branchlines Clogher Valley coach kits, filed down to a squarer shape.

Scribed lines mark the location of rivet lines, joints and window runners.The extra sheet width on the right hand side is so it can be held in my GW Models riviting machine.

 

That's all for now,

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 8, 2022 by DLT

[Greengiant]

Just popped by and read through this.

I like your pick ups and may well adopt these on mine, I found the originals a pig to set up and just as tricky to clean and adjust.

There is room for plenty of lead inside the bonnet and I got some under the cab floor.

Nice build as always Dave, we can have a meeting of locos at Trainwest

 

Martin

[DLT]

New cab rear has been rivited and cut out.  Various bits to be soldered on next.

Cheers, Dave.

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by DLT

[Tigermoth]

Good job on the rivets.

[DLT]

On 08/03/2014 at 10:15, Tigermoth said:

Good job on the rivets.

Thanks, much of it is down to my trusty GW Models riveting machine; a rivet-counting control-freak's dream!

Edited September 8, 2022 by DLT

[Tigermoth]

Don't forget where there's rivets there's something fixed on the other side !

[N15class]

Some nice scratch building.

 

I spent my time at the bench yesterday making a replacement die for GW press. I broke one and it will be 9 months at least before i can get a new one from them. In the end I made two. I may even make a third one when I return. I can now make four sizes of rivet. Want to do a huge one now. Smokebox saddle size.

[Mike Boucher]

Yet again I'm deviating from the kit as intended; to give it a more enclosed cab similar to Moelwyn had, with sliding windows.

Here's a (very) rough sketch to show what I intend.

 

 

A supply of 15thou brass has arrived from Squires, and quickly marked up.  The sliding window frames are made from some etched droplight frames left over from Branchlines Clogher Valley coach kits, filed down to a squarer shape.

Scribed lines mark the location of rivit lines, joints and window runners.The extra sheet width on the right hand side is so it can be held in my GW Models riviting machine.

 

 

That's all for now,

Cheers, Dave.

 

OK, now I'm a bit confused.  Looking at the pictures of construction, and trying to get an idea for how big/small this loco is, I've been assuming that the grid marks on your green "self healing" mat were about 1" apart, which, to me, implied this loco is about the size of one of the Bachmann On30 0-4-0 siderod gas-mechanical switchers.

 

I'm assuming the dimensions on your sketch are in mm, and then the photo, it seems that the grid is bigger than 1", which would mean this engine is a little larger than I thought.  Can you snap a photo of the loco with a ruler next to it for scale?

 

Thanx!

[N15class]

I would think they are 50mm squares

[DLT]

Hi Mike,

Peter has got it right, the squares on the cutting mat are 50mm, so a shade under 2 inches.

The loco is 14 feet long, or 98mm in 7mm scale.

Cheers, Dave.

[John M]

Nice to see scratch building techniques, I especially liked the A12 main frames. I must put a GW models rivet press on the list, I am still use a London Road drop hammer tool for pressing out rivets.

[DLT]

Various bits now soldered on, windowframes and strips for the runners, extra strip representing the join between top and bottom halves of cabsheet.

Two vertical lengths of brass angle on inside to assist with locating between cab sidesheets.

 

 

 

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 8, 2022 by DLT

[DLT]

I was going to panel-in the sides of the cab, but that would mean the interior could not be seen.

So instead I'm assuming that when the cab was enclosed for weatherproofing needs, removable panels were made for the sides that would be left off during the summer.

Seems logical?

Dave.

[darren01]

Hi

This is coming on very well, looks a cracking model!, keep up the good work Dave.

Darren

[DLT]

Finding various places to glue lumps of lead, to give the front end some much needed weight.  Inside the bonnet:

 

Drilling and cutting into the resin gearbox casting and Aralditing more lead into the resulting gaps, as suggested by Paul Martin.

 

 

Looking at the prototype photos shows that several of these locos has cast weights bolted to the front end, so presumably the real thing had the same problem.

Gives me the excuse to just add some solid lumps of lead to the bufferbeam.

 

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 8, 2022 by DLT