RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted May 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2011 Just seen this flash up on Facebook courtesy of Model Rail: http://www.projectmiller.org.uk/ There are plans afoot to try and get 41001, the NRM's prototype Intercity 125 power car back on the rails again under her own power. Pity the other one was scrapped some time back. I wish them luck with this, this could be interesting... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 A worthwhile project in my book! I wonder if at some future point, we may ever see an 'original' HST full set preserved? This may of course be the first step! Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Certainly would be nice As I understand it, she's pretty much a standard ETH locomotive in many regards and probably wouldn't be expected to go over the ton in a preserved state. I wonder how big an effort it would be to refit her with TDM multiple working so that she could be used witha short rake of loco hauled MK3s and a MK3 DVT..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Can the prototype work in multiple with production power cars? I know it ran with production trailers in the mid 1970s as per the photo on the website. They could spot could hire it out to TOCs........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted May 16, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2011 If they can get it working, all that would be needed to create a great looking full train would be a rake of Mk 3 trailers repainted in the reverse blue/grey and the same on a spare production power car to go on the back. Genuinely looking forward to seeing this, don't know how long it will take but it would be worth the wait I am sure. Now how about getting some working innards into the Prototype Deltic whilst they are about it?!? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Can the prototype work in multiple with production power cars? I know it ran with production trailers in the mid 1970s as per the photo on the website. I'd have thought that it's multiple working facilities would be at the very least quite similar. The major problem would be in the ETH provision, as the prototype power cars had convential ETH (as one scenario was to use the power cars on sleeper trains and the like at night...) and not that used by the production HST sets. The picture on the website has it attached to a loco-hauled MK3 if you look at the carriage number (11xxx range). The biggest issue in the short to medium term would be finding a spare HST power car to match up with 41001... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted May 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 16, 2011 I read it that they are also planning to aquire a spare production HST power car and restore it to original condition. I guess if this is the case they could pair it with 41001 and a few Mk3s (half blue/grey the other half grey/blue?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I'd have thought that it's multiple working facilities would be at the very least quite similar. The major problem would be in the ETH provision, as the prototype power cars had convential ETH (as one scenario was to use the power cars on sleeper trains and the like at night...) and not that used by the production HST sets. The picture on the website has it attached to a loco-hauled MK3 if you look at the carriage number (11xxx range). Whilst this is certainly true when 41001 and 41002 were built, according to Marsden in "HST Silver Jubilee" (Ian Allan 2001) it was during the 1974 classified overhaul at Derby when it was decided to reclassify the HSDT as a multiple unit (class 252) rather than class 41 locos and Mk3 coaches that one of the power cars (number not listed though) being fitted at the same time with a 3 phase alternator to supply 415V to supply each coach's air conditioning unit directly (follow a decision change in how the ETH would be supplied to the coaches)- rather than each coach being supplied with 850v dc from the loco to its own motor alternator set which then changed it to 415v for the air con unit etc. It does not mention whether the prototype coaches had their motor alternator sets removed or whether the conventional ETH was removed from the two prototype power cars. The standard BR ETH and the 415v version do have different connections I believe (the three phase 415v having an 'upside cross' on the blanking plates). As the three phase system was fitted to the class 252 as part of the ETH trials it is possible that both standard 800-1000v ETH and the three phase 415v systems were fitted. It maybe possible by looking at the ETH connections on 41001 it may be possible to ascertain which ETH system it currently has the external pipework for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted May 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2011 some shots at the NRM here: http://www.traintesting.com/HST_prototype.htm specifically this photo http://www.traintesting.com/images/HST-PC__rear_panel.jpg shows that it has 415v 3-phase jumpers if it's capable of supplying the ETH to an HST set, the only thing to work round would be mods to the control system to make it compatible with a production set (the orange socket above the tail light is the control jumper socket, the cable bieng mounted on the other side of the gangway). also note RCH jumpers are provided, presumably for lighting/PA edit: the production HST has a single 36-way control jumper mounted below the buckeye Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 16, 2011 And the best of luck to 'em - when the work involved was assessed for return to full working order back in connection with GW 150 back in 1985 it was eventually ruled out on both technical and cost grounds, hence the cosmetic job done at that time. Not impossible to do it I would presume but definitely assessed back then as a major job with some difficulty in using spares from the production vehicles plus a lot of rewiring involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted May 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2011 ... a spare production HST power car ... What is this mythical object of which you speak? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted May 17, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 17, 2011 The original trailers are in use with the Royal Train, NMT and conventional HST's on East Coast and FGW. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taigatrommel Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) I remember looking at 41001 engine block during a "cab it" event at York, and noticing that part of the engine block had been sectioned. I hope this isn't an impediment to it running, although personally I feel that until a production HST power car is available it should remain in the great hall as a reminder of the importance of HSTs in Britain's railway history. Edit: I noticed they have a plan for the engine: replacing the current sectioned engine with a production Paxman Valenta RP200L engine donated to the NRM from the MTU re-power programme. Edited May 17, 2011 by Taigatrommel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted May 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 17, 2011 What is this mythical object of which you speak? They won't stay in service for ever maybe the DPS can spot hire a 55 to cover for a missing power car or two Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Presumably any preserved production HST would remain in its final MTU form - I'm not sure how easy it would be to reverse the conversion and put a Valenta back in. So re-activating the prototype, though I think it's ambitious, may be the only way of seeing the Valenta version in action again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Re putting a valenta in a production power car, the 125 group have acquired a number of valenta engines and associated cooler groups so they obviously have plans to do it at soem point. I also understood the RHC had assigned a complete set for preservation, not sure how recent quango changes affect this designation but irrespective of what the 125 group do we should see a complete set saved anyway. Hate to be the person that has to find a home for it though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hadyn Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 we should see a complete set saved anyway. Hate to be the person that has to find a home for it though... That'll be me then... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted May 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 19, 2011 My understanding of the project is that the NRM have either bought or been given one of the engines from the production HSTs now that they've all (or most of them) have been re-engined. This will be refurbished and used to replace the original one which, as mentioned above, has been sectioned. I've heard from a friend who works at the NRM that one of the plans is to use it to run a shuttle service between the NRM sites at York and Shildon, possibly top'n'tailed with Flying Scotsman. No idea how true the rumour is but it could make for a fun day out! Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modfather Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 The real trouble I can see is the amount of modifications made to the power cars from Production, to working 253/254 to modern mtu mile munchers... relay and control gear has changed spec from the valentas, twps/aws/otmr/atp have all been retro added between leaving the factory and entering service... thats before the three wsp systems, 36 way jumpers, sdl/cdl, buffet refits, lighting physical and electrical changes, inergen fire bottles, mtu engine and M-dec ( a HUGE computer box), shut down timers, guards windows blanked off in the van, exhaust baffle, oh, and then the cab console is all changed on fgw, if not other tocs. The mk3's are wired/orientated differently to conventional mk3's (modified ones have caused problems when incorrectly shunted), air pipes are being exchanged for neoprene hoses due to reliability issues, aside from buffers/couplers/power supplies. Problems I can forsee? the mtu's have a 110v starter motor and a weedy starter gear ring, the motors cost a small fortune to aquire, the rest of the world using mtu engines use cheap bosch 24v motors, the mtu engines are sensitive to poor maintainance, hence the turbo issues in the past and present fuelling issues caused by a lack of filters in the country...oh and the traction motors are starting to show thier age, god knows how much new motors, or at least comms, brushes, boxes and springs would cost - once all the motors have flashed over or shorted it's two days work to recommission and test a powercar - or if you catch it early you can lock out power notches and save the windings. Ultimately it would be best to preserve two mtu power cars and keep a set that fits with them. This at least means you could operate with trained drivers, within normal scheduling and on routes that timing can accurately be kept. Oh, and we would have a fighting chance of keeping the things running. Excue me for the brief details, I'm back off to clean up a set of traction motors... on a power car. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGJ Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I have just seen a picture with the power car working ( looked nice but a lot of exhaust smoke ). https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/10257506_10152530056072033_4132890918410644582_o.jpg it is on facebook 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Report from GCRN: http://www.gcrn.co.uk/news/41001-lives/#sthash.L5834Knm.2qE5hSbD.dpbs 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted June 1, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 1, 2014 Indeed, it was seen performing @ 25mph in reverse yesterday Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted June 1, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 1, 2014 I have just seen a picture with the power car working ( looked nice but a lot of exhaust smoke ). https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/10257506_10152530056072033_4132890918410644582_o.jpg it is on facebook Looks like a kettle! Fantastic achievement by all involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Brilliant news ! A MUST railtour ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Jonboy Posted June 1, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 1, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3umMl49XEg 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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