m davies Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Hello Phil / all, in photos 5 & 6 on the roof there are two sliding covers, what are they for? I did think of covers for the sand boxes but they are on the sides arnt they? TIA OzzyO. Isolation valves for the steam turret I believe. Regards Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Hello Michael / all, I thought that the isolation valve covers were in photos 2, 3 & 8. The ones that I'm talking about are just to the rear of the chimney opening. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted August 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2011 I don't know what the hatches near the chimney are for, I'll have to ask someone who knows. There not steam isolation valve covers ( I detailed them in the photos) and obviously not sand filler covers (they're bad enough to get sand in where they are!) Anyway, just a few more random shots , and that's about all I took: Rear of pony truck Side control spring fitting Pony frame and from the side (note tight fit under firebox) bogie detail Sand filler covers And that's it. If anyone wants anything different, let me know and I'll make a list for next time |I'm up there (won't be till mid -Sept now) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted August 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2011 Sorry, might have duplicated one or two images - hard day at work...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Hello Michael / all, I thought that the isolation valve covers were in photos 2, 3 & 8. The ones that I'm talking about are just to the rear of the chimney opening. OzzyO. I must confess to not seeing those before, however, their location is almost directly above the boiler water feed pipes and valves (Clack?), they could be inspection hatches for those items, in later days the whole panel was often missing. Strangely theres one each side and even un rebuilt Pacific's had two feeds on the right side under the skin and none on the left. The sand hatches are mid way up the body side, some were built with port hole type lid's (#91-110), but all later changed to the sliding type. There used to be three each side, tow either side of the name plate and one just behind the deflector and slightly higher, this last one was removed in later years when the sanders in front of the leading drivers was removed. Phil, another excellent collection of images, better to have duplication than some missing . Hope that helps Michael Addendum, OzzyO, not for the boiler feed pipe valves it would seem http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ , 34076 has a couple of circular wash out plug holes up there, so good chance these are something similar but with a sliding hatch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Williams Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 just a quick public thank you to Phil for helping me out with originals. I look forward to watching progress of 229 Squadron as photos like these can only help ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 The detail photos are incredibly useful! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Going back to the wash out plugs, Phils comments about there only being 5 on both sides made me check through all my photos, as of yet I cannot find even one piece of photographic evidence that suggests BB and WC ever had 6 on the firemans side?, I'm begining to wonder if the drawings I have the author has simply copied the MN locos and made local adjustments. To compliment this my BB and WC drawings show the side sheet where it steps up at the firebox over the drivers to be curved, again I can find no evidence of this ever being so on BB and WC and only present on the first 3 MN, all others are straight at a approx 50 degree slope. One other interesting aspect I've recently uncovered is the main rod joint is in front of the main crank on #31-45, though later photos suggest they reverted to standard joins aft of the main crank, when or how many reverted is not recorded, not that I have found. Finally, for fear of diluting the OP's build thread, would it be better to discuss detail differences in another thread, in the Southern interest group?, I'm hoping to get some detail shots shortly at NRM and I hear NVR has one under repair too, these I'll stick on my Flickr sight and inform as and when. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Hello Michael, what a can of worm's we have opened here, you are correct the West Country/Battle of Britain class all had five washout hole's in the side's, it was the Merchant Navy that had six each side, even when they were rebuilt, that's the good thing about Rmweb, you get a good debate on whatever you are building, and normally get the answer's you need, l have learned a thing or two already....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 ......One other interesting aspect I've recently uncovered is the main rod joint is in front of the main crank on #31-45, though later photos suggest they reverted to standard joins aft of the main crank, when or how many reverted is not recorded, not that I have found..... Have you got the Irwell Press book on the Light Pacifics? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Hello Horsetan, No, but l have a few line drawing's, and a couple of Martin Finney WC/BB plan's and a few thousand photo's from the 1960's all down loaded into a data base l have been building ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Have you got the Irwell Press book on the Light Pacific's? Not yet , its on the 'immediate' shopping list, depends how much its going to cost me for drawings from NRM, if its even possible to purchase from their archives, I believe it is, but I'll find out in a few weeks anyway. Irwell press sometimes do a Photographic Accompaniment to their 'Book of the nnn' series, sadly no light pacific tome exists that I can find. Happily though, many pictures in books have been published previously in British Railways Illustrated of which I have a fair few . Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Hello Horsetan, No, but l have a few line drawing's, and a couple of Martin Finney WC/BB plan's and a few thousand photo's from the 1960's all down loaded into a data base l have been building ? Interesting, I was meaning to ask where you got your drawings from, I've the Ian Beatie ones from Railway Modeller, Russel Carter from Modellers Backtrack and F J Roche from Historic Locomotive Drawings in 4mm Scale. Sadly none have accurate frame profiles and all suffer from conflicts with each other and real world, even taking into account detail variations, and none show details of things like bogies, trailing trucks, slidebar brackets etc. Ian Beatie looks to be the most accurate and shows the steam turret valve covers as staggered, Carter shows in line and Roche shows left side only. Roche shows curved firebox base side sheets, oddly Carter shows curved on one drawing and straight on another?, Beatie shows straight. Roche shows 5 + 6 wash out plugs, the other two show left side only, ie 5. I didn't know Martin Finney did plans?, if it is not too much trouble, where did one purchase said items from please?. If the real locos were bad enough, it gets harder if the drawings are inaccurate as well. Unlike the A4's or Princess Coronations, Bulleid air smoothed Pacific's are far from smooth, not an issue in 4mm or perhaps even 7mm, but 1/32?, your probably going to need some way to represent all those bolts holding the skin on. Regarding MN wash out plugs, indeed you are correct, I've just double checked, I always thought there were 5 on the drivers side, but under a glass you can just see the sixth hard up against the spectacle plate, Mr Roche again notes 5+6!, sadly these drawings are the best dimensioned ones and have cross sectioned drawings too, however, can they be trusted?. Regards Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted August 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2011 It's a shame that no-one is doing a Merchant Navy - I have frame drawings scanned from the SR ones plus bogie drawings and other odds and sods (I started a 5" gauge MN before playing with real ones took over). I borrowed the original drawings from the MHR, I'll ask if they have any WC/BB ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Interesting, I was meaning to ask where you got your drawings from, I've the Ian Beatie ones from Railway Modeller, Russel Carter from Modellers Backtrack and F J Roche from Historic Locomotive Drawings in 4mm Scale. Sadly none have accurate frame profiles and all suffer from conflicts with each other and real world, even taking into account detail variations, and none show details of things like bogies, trailing trucks, slidebar brackets etc. Ian Beatie looks to be the most accurate and shows the steam turret valve covers as staggered, Carter shows in line and Roche shows left side only. Roche shows curved firebox base side sheets, oddly Carter shows curved on one drawing and straight on another?, Beatie shows straight. Roche shows 5 + 6 wash out plugs, the other two show left side only, ie 5. Errm, if those are the drawings from 1988, then I don't think they're totally accurate. I used the Beattie drawings for an attempt at a scratchbuilt Light Pacific back then, tracing directly onto tracing paper, and ended up with bodysides that were longer than scale! There are very simple, but very useable 4mm scale drawings that the late Albert Goodall (probably the ultimate Bulleid guru) provided, and I have tended to use those in preference to the Beattie ones. He also produced drawings for the various types of Bulleid tender. I didn't know Martin Finney did plans?, if it is not too much trouble, where did one purchase said items from please?. They will probably be the ones that he includes with the instructions in his exquisite 7mm scale kit. Give him a call and ask him what he charges for a spare set of instructions for the Light Pacific. By way of comparison, he charged me £3.50 to provide a full set of instructions and drawings for a 4mm scale Gresley A3 kit that I bought from eBay which were missing these. It's a shame that no-one is doing a Merchant Navy - I have frame drawings scanned from the SR ones plus bogie drawings and other odds and sods (I started a 5" gauge MN before playing with real ones took over)..... I've got a half-built original "MN", intending to represent 35022, produced by stretching the Airfix plastic kit by about 4mm in the firebox area, and Albert Goodall's embossed paper overlays for the casing. The roof also needs stretching. Not easy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 l got the Martin Finney drawing's from a friend, through a friend, who build's kit's for a living, but even these are not 100% correct, l have seen many drawing's of Bullied pacific's and they ALL differ in many way's, you really must collect photo's of the real thing, the preserved loco's, have had modification's done to the tender's, giving them extra coal/water to run on today's railway, so if you model say 34067 'Tangmere' the tender is completely different to what is was in the 1960s, it would be impossible to model a 100% true model of a Bullied, all you can do is your best with whatever you have, all l can say is search for photo's of your chosen loco, and go from there....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 It's a shame that no-one is doing a Merchant Navy - I have frame drawings scanned from the SR ones plus bogie drawings and other odds and sods (I started a 5" gauge MN before playing with real ones took over). I borrowed the original drawings from the MHR, I'll ask if they have any WC/BB ones. Indeed, sadly I grew up in Teignmouth (hydraulics not steam I'm afraid) and now live near Ipswich, light pacifics worked in both areas, thats a good enough reason for me . 5", very nice indeed, but a bit outside of my wallet and current tools at the moment LOL. 1/32 is about as big as I can get away with for electric drive, live steam will have to wait until the kids finally leave home, more room for a bigger workshop you see . Any info on frames or stretchers I'm sure would be well received by many around here. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Errm, if those are the drawings from 1988, then I don't think they're totally accurate. I used the Beattie drawings for an attempt at a scratchbuilt Light Pacific back then, tracing directly onto tracing paper, and ended up with bodysides that were longer than scale! Yes RM 88, thanks for the heads up!, for the etched work I'll end up making cad drawings anyway, but good to know the Beatie drawings might be out slightly. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 l got the Martin Finney drawing's from a friend, through a friend, who build's kit's for a living, but even these are not 100% correct, l have seen many drawing's of Bullied pacific's and they ALL differ in many way's, you really must collect photo's of the real thing, the preserved loco's, have had modification's done to the tender's, giving them extra coal/water to run on today's railway, so if you model say 34067 'Tangmere' the tender is completely different to what is was in the 1960s, it would be impossible to model a 100% true model of a Bullied, all you can do is your best with whatever you have, all l can say is search for photo's of your chosen loco, and go from there....... Photos I have LOL and yes preserved locos have been changed a little over time, as for tenders, I'm not even going there just yet!, except that it will be a non cut down example, 4500 or 5500 gallon will depend on loco chosen, I'd already worked out they're a subject matter of their own accord . Drawings, fair do's, Horsetan (thank you) noted a possible way to acquire some so will pursue that route. Hopefully with a works set of frame drawings it should be possible to scale pretty much of the rest from existing drawings, I hope!. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted August 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2011 Totally off topic, I apologise, but in thinking about Bulleids in general led me to this short video of yours truly getting 35005 away from Alton on the MHR some years ago - might be of interest to some. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Nice , I was going to say the exhaust didn't sound smooth enough for a 120 degree beat, but then I looked it up and it isn't LOL, odd how just a few degrees can make such a difference. Also nice glimpse (just) of one of the detail differences between light and heavy pacific tenders, i.e. the rounded edge to the water tank at the cab entrance. Thanks for sharing. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 .....Drawings, fair do's, Horsetan (thank you) noted a possible way to acquire some so will pursue that route.... PM sent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Hello Michael / all, I thought that the isolation valve covers were in photos 2, 3 & 8. The ones that I'm talking about are just to the rear of the chimney opening. OzzyO. OzzyO, I've been looking at these in detail these past few days, I'd lay a small wager they're covers for the boiler front ring wash out plugs, these are more easily seen on the rebuilt locos, some original locos have sliding covers as Phil's photos show, some circular holes, some nothing at all, just another pit fall to catch the unwary . Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 OzzyO, I've been looking at these in detail these past few days, I'd lay a small wager they're covers for the boiler front ring wash out plugs, these are more easily seen on the rebuilt locos, some original locos have sliding covers as Phil's photos show, some circular holes, some nothing at all, just another pit fall to catch the unwary . Kindest Michael Hello Michael / all, I've been having a look at some rebuilt BoBs & WCs and I think that they must be the covers for the front ring wash out plugs. They must have been the devil to work on when you see the space between the top of the body / roof to the top of the clack valves. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Hi George, well what a can of WONDERFUL WORMS! Fantastic pic's and really good prototype information from a man on the ground so to speak. As you said this is what the RM Web is all about, and that is information sharing. Like minded people all with one common goal and that is for you to finish 229 to the highest standards. Good luck with the rest of the project mate. Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.