Horsetan Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 At this point, I think it may be as well to dredge up some of the late Albert Goodall's notes on the Bulleids. He spent quite a lot of time crawling all over the things taking measurements, photos, etc. - which is what led to his range of detail castings and overlays, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Not yet , its on the 'immediate' shopping list, depends how much its going to cost me for drawings from NRM, if its even possible to purchase from their archives, I believe it is, but I'll find out in a few weeks anyway. Kindest Michael Yes you can get copies of drawings from the NRM. http://www.nrm.org.uk/ResearchAndArchive/Visit/~/media/Files/NRM/PDF/formsjun2011_original_drawings_order_form_v8.ashx http://www.nrm.org.uk/ResearchAndArchive/Visit/~/media/Files/NRM/PDF/formsjun2011_microfilm_order_form_v8.ashx I'd hope the drawings are on microfilm.. Might be cheaper planning a trip up there to take photos of them yourself if you can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Yes you can get copies of drawings from the NRM. http://www.nrm.org.u...er_form_v8.ashx http://www.nrm.org.u...er_form_v8.ashx I'd hope the drawings are on microfilm.. Might be cheaper planning a trip up there to take photos of them yourself if you can. Craig, a little digging around and I think I read that the Bulleid drawings are on microfilm, they are under their own heading, sadly the list appears not to be searchable on line like the BR classes are, if that were the case I'd make a list up and view on arrival. I'd personally prefer the tiff format as there already digitized and can be cleaned up and scaled to which ever scale you wish, scanning huge drawings on an A4 printer is a real pain, did it once for a merchant vessel, ended up stitching just over 36 images together!. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted August 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2011 Looks like I'm up there again on Sept 16th, George has already asked for some underneath shots which I should be able to do with Swanage even if 007 isn't over the pit. If anyone else wants anything please let me know by then and I'll make a list. I can even take a tape measure up.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 l went to York a few month's ago with my son, essentially to get load's of detail photo's of bullied's BB and his Q1, on arrival l found 'Winston Churchill' inside a dark warehouse type building parked in a platform, couldn't get a decent photo it was hopeless, very disappointing, and the Q1,well that was on the track's off of the turntable parked between other loco's, complete waste of a day.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 ll went to York a few month's ago with my son, essentially to get load's of detail photo's of bullied's BB and his Q1, on arrival l found 'Winston Churchill' inside a dark warehouse type building parked in a platform, couldn't get a decent photo it was hopeless, very disappointing, and the Q1,well that was on the track's off of the turntable parked between other loco's, complete waste of a day.............. George, here you go, 105 detail shots of the Q1 http://www.flickr.co...57627117224856/ . According to latest shots, I use Flickr which allows inspection of the image EXIF data (tells you exactly when the photo was taken....if the owner has set the clock right!) it shows 34051 is now in the main hall but in a corner behind a barrier http://www.flickr.co...hli/6075995710/, I am hoping, that a kind word to the staff and they will allow me to go through the barrier and take detail shots, especially as I'm probably going to drop a bundle of cash on their mat for drawings. Its not a restricted area, just an area closed off at present. I expect by the time I get there the loco may well be in the repair shop or moved somewhere else. Failing that I will drop by NVR on the way back and they are usually very accommodating during the week for a look around behind the scenes...I had a nice look around one of the Class 56's they were doing up for a TOC. So long as I can touch 34051 I'll be happy, low light is not a problem I've a camera that will cope and software that will clean up later, I also do quite a bit of night photography http://www.flickr.com/photos/32755955@N05/collections/72157624679711560/ so low light is no problem , as long as I can see my notes and a tape measure that'll suffice. You are of course welcome to any pictures and info I collect as and when. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Looks like I'm up there again on Sept 16th, George has already asked for some underneath shots which I should be able to do with Swanage even if 007 isn't over the pit. If anyone else wants anything please let me know by then and I'll make a list. I can even take a tape measure up.... If Goerge hasn't already asked and he is ok with others chipping in then, slide bar bracket and any views up under the side sheets, theres a whole bunch of pipes running along there from what I can gather and there must be some sort of arrangement to attach the side sheets to the frames. Other than that what ever you post will be gratefully received. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted August 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2011 If Goerge hasn't already asked and he is ok with others chipping in then, slide bar bracket and any views up under the side sheets, theres a whole bunch of pipes running along there from what I can gather and there must be some sort of arrangement to attach the side sheets to the frames. Other than that what ever you post will be gratefully received. Kindest Michael Noted - 34105 is naked at the moment, I think the crinoline (the bands which the cladding is bolted to) is still on the boiler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Craig, a little digging around and I think I read that the Bulleid drawings are on microfilm, they are under their own heading, sadly the list appears not to be searchable on line like the BR classes are, if that were the case I'd make a list up and view on arrival. Kindest Michael From experience the list of drawings will be in a pdf available onsite at search engine or to buy as part of a cd of indexes. You might be lucky with an email though and get a copy of the pdf.. A2A where the BR drawings is was a project that sadly had its funding cut I believe, possibly one of the only centralised gov't databases I wouldn't mind funding however.. I know how disappointing station hall was for photography when trying to get any shots of the 2800 in there. That has moved too now though and i've not managed to go there while it has been in the tent! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Right, I realise that I've not contributed anything much here - and we've got visitors staying that prevente me getting to my model room / study to check references etc. Now I know that mention has been made to errors in the Ian Beattie book... and if this is the "Southern Locomotives to Scale" book - green cover with a Maunsell on the front... then yes, this is what my grandfather used when he made his P4 Clan Line. Or so I thought! Inside this book (his copy) I have his tracing of the drawings that still have the pinpricks in that I think he used to transfer key measurements to the brass plate for his 35028 (which he never really finished, and disapeared after his passing in 1985). Today, I looked back at this, and for the first time, lay the tracing paper over the drawings... they didn't line up !!!!!! The tracing, which is as with everything else he did - precise, is about 3mm shorter than the book's drawings. I wonder whether his Merchant Navy was "Spot on"... don't know who took it.... I don't expect I'll ever find it. I then overlayed these tracings over the drawings in the back of Locomotives in Detail [1] Bulleid 4-6-2 Merchant Navy Class - by R.J. Harvey... and these look as though their completely aligned. Shame that there isn't one covering the light Pacifics. What else can I add to this discussion ..? Not much really. The Richard Derry (Irwell) book of he west country and battle of britain light pacifics lists 21C163 as having tender 3315 from new, 3252 at eastleigh 22/12/59 and 3253 Salisbury 28/8/63 all 4500 gal tenders according to the same publication (page 33). These are splendid majectic machines, air smoothed they hold a certain mystique... rebuilt they are purely elegant... both of these distract from their power. The rebuilt Merchant Navy, to my eyes, is everything a pacific should be... the original light pacifics look balanced... although appearance (in my eyes) favours the latter 40 with their wider cabs... and the rebuilt light pacifics are just pretty. We are lucky to have 34059 not far away from us; it's a shame that 21C123 is now cold. I look forward to continuing to read this thread and watching your representation of this magnificent class develop. Good luck with the build.... and thanks (to all) for making this thread so extremely enjoyable to read. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 ... Russel Carter from Modellers Backtrack .... The Carter drawings are a real shame in many ways because they actually look convincing. Most significant error is in the front views, which do not differentiate between the 8'6" and 9' cabs - instead, Carter made both variations the same! Even laid together with my Goodall drawings, the Carter side views are about 1 to 2mm longer on the printed page, despite the principal measurements quoted being the same! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Even laid together with my Goodall drawings, the Carter side views are about 1 to 2mm longer on the printed page, despite the principal measurements quoted being the same! One was measured on a hot day with a full and hot boiler. The other one was measured on a cold day with no warmth in it. If your talking about 4mm drawings it may seem a lot, BUT which (witch) one looks right? If the drawing was drawn to say 12mm to the foot ( 28mm to the foot is better) and scaled down, a lot will be down to the printer and not to the draughtsman. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The Carter drawings are a real shame in many ways because they actually look convincing. Most significant error is in the front views, which do not differentiate between the 8'6" and 9' cabs - instead, Carter made both variations the same! Even laid together with my Goodall drawings, the Carter side views are about 1 to 2mm longer on the printed page, despite the principal measurements quoted being the same! Printing is always a bug bear, I tend to scale print to a known dimension, never trusting the publishers scaling, Ie change the print scale to 99% or 101% to make the final print correct when measured, rarely do pictures print exactly right straight from the publishers. Regards Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The late Guy Williams used to do his own drawings. One was measured on a hot day with a full and hot boiler. The other one was measured on a cold day with no warmth in it. If your talking about 4mm drawings it may seem a lot, BUT which (witch) one looks right?.... That is actually a really good point. There is expansion and contraction. Would you risk burning yourself to take measurements of an engine that's in service? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Thank's to everyone who has replied to my topic on building Bullied's '229 Squadron', it's great to get so much good feedback, you all have given me information and fact's, that has helped a lot, fantastic detail photo's from Phil, which l am sure will help many other modeller's l'm sure, so armed with the photo's and the drawing's l have, should give me the information to go and build something special, l have been a Bullied nutter for year's, l'm fifty-nine now, and l enjoy them as much now as l used to then, l started super-detailing my Bullied's when l first got my first Hornby 'Winston Churchill' even cut the tender down, thought it was the bee's knee's, then started on the Airfix model, l then found a guy called 'Albert Goodall' it was at a model railway show, when l saw all the bit's and piece's he was selling with his wife Shirley, my eye's nearly popped out, most of the part's were of white metal, there was so much more you could now do, l said l would like to model 34002 'Salisbury' he then put a bundle of thing's in a bag, even the pre-cut nameplate's, scroll's and the coat of arm's, l bought many thing's from Albert over the year's, sadly he is no longer with us, l still have his price list, and the photostat picture's of the various tender's, even the green backed paper side's, if Albert was still with us, l would like to think he would be selling great 7mm kit's, please continue to chip in, everyone's welcome, all information is very much appreciated, BULLIED POWER................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted August 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2011 I think it's thanks to you George - its your scratchbuilding skills which started it all off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 ..... l then found a guy called 'Albert Goodall' it was at a model railway show, when l saw all the bit's and piece's he was selling with his wife Shirley, my eye's nearly popped out, most of the part's were of white metal, there was so much more you could now do, l said l would like to model 34002 'Salisbury' he then put a bundle of thing's in a bag, even the pre-cut nameplate's, scroll's and the coat of arm's, l bought many thing's from Albert over the year's, sadly he is no longer with us, l still have his price list, and the photostat picture's of the various tender's, even the green backed paper side's........ You must have been a greengrocer at some stage, 'cos of all the apostrophes I'm seeing! Albert Goodall's detail parts are still around, as is his price list, but you can only buy them from Shirley at the shows she attends, e.g. Tolworth or Woking. I still have a small stock of the green paper overlays, just like you - they are still very very useful, as are the copious notes that he provided. He also did blue overlays to help you stretch the Airfix kit into an original Merchant Navy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Wow what fantastic feedback mate, it make interesting reading, keep the thread going for all Bullied lovers everywhere! I may have to get a 4 MM one now and add SOUND after all I said on the phone last week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 .... add SOUND after all I said on the phone last week. There'll be enough room to fit it in! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 There's a thought a 7mm Bullied with super SOUND. Also thank you Michael for the photo link to the Q1 picture's, just what l need.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 There's a thought a 7mm Bullied with super SOUND. Would they be screams, thumps and chinese burns? .......Oh sorry, you meant Bulleid..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikitriki Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 There's a thought a 7mm Bullied with super SOUND. Ah, you mean like this A bit drowned out by the 08 and I could do with a better camera mic, but never mind. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Nice one Richard, my ears are ringing out for more, George and I used to go to the Mid Hants when we both lived down south. Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 Cor! would l like SOUND in 229' you bet, thank's for sharing that Richard, sound very real.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Sorry for the slight OT, and not wishing to dilute Georges thread, a couple of renders of the frames today. Whilst they are very rough and probably only 90% accurate they have thrown up some interesting puzzles and are already directing me to exact locations that I need to get measurments from on the real loco, photos too. I'll start my own thread on the project shortly. The idea is to do renders of areas or parts so that I know what its supposed to look like when I build it, much easier to rotate the 3D model and see inside than to keep driving 120 miles to the nearest real one!. Regards Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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