Lawrence Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Ladies & Gents Later this year I will be getting an 8x6 shed, in which I will be building a couple of layouts in a sort of split level design. I require your advice on matters such as insulation & membrane, electrics and lighting. Recently I have had a concrete and blockwork base built and I intend the shed to sit on risers to allow air flow, but does the base require any further covering or is there any special treatment required for the underside of the shed. Any help you can give regarding preparing a shed for layouts would be greatly appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Place a non-porous membrane (damp course strip) atop the risers to prevent the migration of water from the ground to the shed frame. Line the inner with a suitable breathable membrane, then foam sheet polyboard and finally a water resistant hardboard (you can get foil-lined) and nail this to the frame. The floor of my sheet is cheap plywood for concrete shuttering with a vinyl flooring for cleanliness and warmth. Don't forget to treat the roof as you did the walls and finally a good coat of wipe clean vinyl emulsion, my shed interior has white ceiling and baby blue walls. Essential purchases: 1. Dehumidifier + fan (the latter is for the three days of summer) 2. Heater - temperature control 3. Lots of light and power circuitry. 4. Alarm Don't forget to paint the shed once every two years and inspect constantly for damage. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Hi Lawrence, If I could just offer my own bit of humble advice.......... I too have recently purchased a shed. The company I bought mine from make bespoke sheds, to your own design and have various 'add ons' as extras. They advised me, as you have already done, to place the shed off the ground, for air circulation ( I used treated 4x2 from my local timber merchant ). Also, as for the interior, I had whats known as a TYVEK(?) membrane installed, which is basically a damp proofing agent. The shed itself is made from tanalised timber, which has a 15 year guarantee. It is now up to me to line out the inside. I have decided to insulate it with 8'x4' x 1" styrene sheet and will then, once this has been done, line it all out, over the top of the styrene, with 1/8" Ply, panel pinned in place. For the electrics, I am fortunate in that I have a modelling mate who happens to be an electrician, so he will be doing that for me. He did however, advise me to install an outside power cable, which is conduited from my house, down the garden, to the shed. I guess it's really up to you how many sockets and lights you have. Hope this helps. cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 6, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 6, 2011 I lined my shed walls with polystyrene sheet and clad with plywood. Although I have a heater installed - with a frostat so it kicks in at about 2 degC. Even though I would turn up the heater before use, it was still very cold at low level. The next summer, I lined the floor with (I think) 38mm thick polystyrene sheet from Wickes with battens every 2' to line up with 8'x2' tongue & groove chipboard flooring sheets. The weight is supported across the poly and chipboard. I also have some carpet offcuts to make it even more cosy. Other comforts include an intercom to the house - similar to this - CPC intercom - useful to know when tea is ready.......... Also make sure the wi-fi can reach to the shed! Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Thank you for the replies Gents, hadn't considered a humidifier \ heater, and I like the idea of the intercom though I generally find that if SWMBO wants me, she can make herself heard, wherever I may be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I've always quite liked the idea of having some LGB running down the length of the garden, from the utility room, so that cans of beer could be placed onto an open wagon, by request, and hauled to the shed, whenever I was in need of refreshment between coats of paint drying....................... Good job 'er indoors isn't on RMweb....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 Well the shed is ordered Gents and will be arriving in a few weeks time. I'm getting an 8x6 pent with the door at one end and a couple of windows. I have gone for the heavier duty on with the 20mm loglap walls rather than tongue and groove or shiplap. Now, none of the wood is pressure treated however the company (who to be fair have a fantastic reputation locally over many decades) has said by painting with an oil based preservative every couple of years the shed should last at least 15 years. I asked the question about damp proofing the risers, he said there was no need as they will be robust enough to protect the base and will sook up any moisture. So come July 14th I will have to start re reading this thread to see what you guys used for insulating (no point writing it down as that just gives me 3 weeks to lose it) I'm thinking probably just 3 or 4 mm ply for the internal walls and ceiling after membrane & insulating. It will be a split level N gauge set up, what would you recommend for framing for the layout itself, would 2x1 be sufficient? not sure what to skin it with, did consider 10mm ply As ever you input is much valued Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokebox Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 No matter what the company have said, I would recommend treating all the timber with Cuprinol clear wood preserver. Two or three coats on the floor supports and flooring. Any uprights should be soaked for as long as possible so that the Cuprinol soaks in up to a height of 6 inches or more. If it's not possible to soak the end grain of the wood, paint on as many coats as you can. This is really god stuff and I would expect it to extend the life of a shed considerably. About £12 for a half gallon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted June 22, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2011 Insulation is good, but bear in mind you also need ventilation, or you'll create damp somewhere in the structure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 A friend of mine has a greenhouse temperature controller linked to a solar panel. In the cold weather all the power generated is used to heat the space. In warmer weather it automatically opens glazed slats in the roof and turns on an extractor fan. Very neat. Soon, he's going 'off grid' and using solar panels to run the whole shed. He has battery banks underneath the layout. He says the two most important factors about layouts in sheds - both equally important - are temperature control and keeping bugs at bay, especially spiders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I asked the question about damp proofing the risers, he said there was no need as they will be robust enough to protect the base and will sook up any moisture. As ever you input is much valued Hello Lawrence, no matter what the man said I would still instate a damp proof membrane between the concrete base and the risers. Then follow what smokebox has said about using Cuprinol on the risers as well. Just think how the trees get the water to the top of them! OzzyO. PS. as he said they will soak up the moisture THAT IS NOT GOOD. Wet wood will = rotten wood before long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Q Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 One thing I would do, is one the shed is built spray/ paint inside and out with a woodworm killer, I think it was on here of someones layout disintegrating due to woodworm in a garage. it's something I will definately be doing but then the shed is in an old orchard with many old wormy trees.. The Q Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 29, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2011 May I also suggest that the layout is built on baseboards that could be removed. After all if you spend 15years building a layout and then the shed needs replacing......... Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I'm about to move out into the shed for railway modelling too. The new house came with a very large one and it seemed a shame to waste it, given that my railway room plans have been scuppered by money being too tight for a few years. I concur with treating the wood really well. I repainted mine using Cupronol spray on stuff for fences and sheds. It really has improved its appearance. The roof has been re-felted - a leak later on would have been devastating and probably not discovered until too late. At least now I know the felt is secure. I also installed guttering so that rain water doesn't just drip off the roof and potentially wets the sides. Noting the shed before this mod I realised that this should increase the longevity of the shed as much as anything else. I value the comments about insulation - I have foil covered insulation to fasten to the insides and will be panelling over with thin ply then painting. As has been said in the thread, the layout will be totally removable so that should calamity arise or the shed ultimately get replaced, the layout can move with minimum fuss. It also means that potentially the new layout can travel to shows, albeit that I would have to think of how to run it given that it will be a roundy-roundy designed to be viewed from the centre. How do others control things like spider infestations effectively and without damaging models? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokebox Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I'm pretty sure I read that spiders can be kept at bay by putting conkers (horse chestnuts) around the room/layout. Whether it works or whether it's an urban myth, I have no idea as I haven't tried it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Hi guys, I can assure you smokebox, they do work. My father-in-law introduced me to the idea and he never had a spider problem in the same room as his conkers! On the flip side, spiders do keep the flies and other bugs under control, so the choice is yours. Cheers, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter c Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Could I make a couple of suggestions. I re-felted the shed roof and then applied a couple of coats of solar reflective paint helps preserve the felt and keep the temperatures lower in the shed. I used foil covered "bubble wrap" stapled to the walls for insulation this also acts as a damp barrier. Because the shed is old but not rotten I painted the walls in "barn paint" which gives a gentle water repellant sheen but allows the wood to breath. On the floor I used cheap self adhesive vinyl tiles to stop draughts! The base boards are old solid pine wardrobe doors turned upside down, these are supported on a slotted steel shelf system the uprights are screwed to the shed uprights. That way the underside is completely accessible for wiring etc. HTH Peter C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Solar reflective paint? Sounds effective, but does it radically change the outward colour of the roof? Unfortunately powers-that-be dictate in my case that the outside of the shed should remain similar in colour to the original felt. Staple gunning baking foil to the inside has, however, noticeably dropped the internal temperature on sunny days. It isn't entirely perfect though, and still rather hotter in there than I would want. Insulation will get added over the top as and when time permits and I find insulation that is thin, easy to handle and not too tricky to mount. I seem to recall having seen foil backed foam that comes in rolls that if I can find a source would be perfect for doing the walls too (not dissimilar to those old sleeping mats that guaranteed a rubbish night's sleep on cadet camping trips when I was younger) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter c Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 The roof colour is silver but with age it dulls down a bit. The silver foil insulation is very good I have put it on the walls and roof. Both products came from Toolstation ( I have no connection with them whatsoever) just a satisfied customer. I should have added that I also put some solar film on the shed windows (5) this was left over from my previous house when I had to make the conservatory cooler. I live in a conservation area but having painted the shed walls and roof it looks much better than the previous crappy shed so no comments from our parish council! HTH Peter C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted August 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 5, 2011 The insulation I used for a loft conversion contained 19 layers of foil and insulation it was about 1/2inch thick but did net an air gap before boarding over. It was equivalent to 12inch of fibreglass but expensive. I think B&Q do a cheaper one or look at Screwfix who do some cheaper stuff as well. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 5, 2011 Jenny, If you really want some 'cheap and easy to handle' insulation you might be in just the right line of business to lay hands on some - cardboard boxes (especially computer boxes but any good corrugated cardboard will do) several layers thick for preference and ideally with a bit of room for air to circulate plus a vapour barrier between the shed structure and the cardboard. I partially insulated a large shed in this fashion a few years ago - some bits with sheet expanded polystyrene, some with old cardboard boxes, some with expanded polystyrene packaging granules and the covered across the framing with either ply (part of an old roster office at a previous work location so truly railway) or Wickes cheapest hardboard. And it all worked like a dream and you couldn't tell the difference between what had been done with cardboard or 2" thick expanded polystyrene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm having trouble in the current rainy/windy weather with my shed trying to leak. Having just finished repairing the ends (water was getting in through the overlapping panelling) imagine my annoyance to discover a small damp patch at the bottom of the roof on the inside. On the outside there is no hole in the roofing felt (which I replaced back in June with new felt) though I did find a slight wrinkle which I concluded may have allowed a small build up of water over the top of one of the clout nails. I've carefully smoothed down the wrinkle and added two more clout nails to ensure a clear passage for water to run off without accumulating around the nail which may have allowed it to seep in under the head. However, it seems that I am fighting a battle to keep my shed watertight. No sooner do I repair one leak than another seems to pop up. Can anyone provide any advice on how to deal with mystery roof leaks? One option might be to shingle the roof (as it wouldn't take the weight of tiles or slates) though I am unsure where to get these from. They seem to be popular in places like the US, but I don't remember ever seeing them in the UK. Another option I am wondering about is painting a sealant on the roof, though the information I can find online seems to suggest that this isn't as hard wearing as I want. Can anyone make any suggestions? Advice on curing this problem would be most gratefully received! Replacing the shed isn't really an option for two reasons. Firstly money is tight, and a shed of comparable size would set me back around £1000. Secondly the model railway within it is, er, well built in. It is designed to be removable, but this has never ever been put to the test, and I'd rather not test it if I can help it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 11, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2012 One option might be to shingle the roof (as it wouldn't take the weight of tiles or slates) though I am unsure where to get these from. They seem to be popular in places like the US, but I don't remember ever seeing them in the UK. Another option I am wondering about is painting a sealant on the roof, though the information I can find online seems to suggest that this isn't as hard wearing as I want. A quick search for shingle tiles uk brings up quite a few options Jenny. I've seen them used successfully in Devon, Cornwall, Somerset and Wiltshire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A quick search for shingle tiles uk brings up quite a few options Jenny. I've seen them used successfully in Devon, Cornwall, Somerset and Wiltshire. Thanks for that. My google-fu must have been weak. I've found that Wickes do them and the customer revues look good. Maybe I can once and for all fix the shed from the elements. I just hope that the roof survives okay until I can get over to Bury and buy some. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Before laying the felt did you seal the roof timbers with a thick coat of bitumen paint ? I have a garden shed that is nearly 20 years old and have refelted it twice over that time. Both times the old felt had weathered well but was showing signs of cracking - It becomes quite brittle over time. After taking the old felt off, I renewed the bitumen layer (in a tin from Wickes) before fixing the new felt. The clout roofing nails are also painted to aid sealing. I did look at the shingles but decided they were very expensive (I guess they are not so popular over here) and decided a couple of rolls of felt was cheaper and less bother. The roof does require a steep slope to work best with no standing water. Our biggest problem is squirrels who like to pick the corners and chew bits. The shed is purely used for garden implements and seedlings so I am not that worried about the odd bit of damp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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