Realtrack Models looking for suggestions!

[The Stationmaster]

How about a GWR steam Railcar first?

Very nice but they didn't run in the BR period and if Charlie is to stand a chance of commercial success (i.e still have a roof over his head) bearing in mind the r-t-r development costs of even a single car diesel unit he is surely going to have to offer something which hits the widest possible segment of the market? Why miss out on the chance of something like this -

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1294.htm

[charliepetty]

Very nice but they didn't run in the BR period and if Charlie is to stand a chance of commercial success (i.e still have a roof over his head) bearing in mind the r-t-r development costs of even a single car diesel unit he is surely going to have to offer something which hits the widest possible segment of the market? Why miss out on the chance of something like this -

http://www.warwicksh.../gwrbsh1294.htm

 

Which ones are preserved and where!

[The Stationmaster]

 

Which ones are preserved and where!

The only preserved streamliner is No.4 at Swindon 'Steam' Museum and looking to be in quite good nick: two of the later 'angular' type are preserved - No 22 at Didcot GWS in, I think, good condition, and No.20 on the Kent & East Sussex Railway 'undergoing restoration' and, I believe, quite a way from anything like completed.

[tetsudofan]

Think the idea of the streamlined railcar is a great idea.....would certainly add them to my pre-order list......

 

Keith

[DelticBlade]

I would like to support the suggestion of Transpennine units (and class 123 too).

[The Stationmaster]

I'd be down for a GW streamlined car (BR livery) and am trying to work out an excuse for two (without getting Charlie too deeply involved in the body detail variations if possible).

[The Fatadder]

Either a high spec angled railcar or a twin set would be perfect

Though I think I would end up buying a streamlined one anyway even if afaik it's useless for cheddar

[buffalo]

I'll add my vote for a streamlined railcar. The only question is which one.

The only preserved streamliner is No.4 at Swindon 'Steam' Museum...

It's worth remembering that this is one of the first 'production' lot (Nos 2-4) and is a bit different from the later streamlined lots (5-7 and 8-16(+17)). Although the shapes are broadly similar, 2-4 had a buffet and two toilets whereas most of the later cars lacked such facilities, only three having a single toilet. They thus had more seats arranged quite differently. This corresponds to a very different window pattern and significantly wider passenger doors. Then are the detail differences...

 

That said, I'd be happy to see a model of either type, or even the unique No18, and I'd probably buy a later two-car unit if you went for that. For now, though, I'd avoid the later single cars as, although it could be improved on, the Hornby offering is probably good enough for most people.

 

Nick

[Guest dilbert]

Streamliner (incl. Parcels car N° 17), the intermediate N° 18 and the Twin sets (originally N°s 35/36 & 37/38) would be of interest - I have always had a particulary weakness for these ( as well as Panniers and Toad brake vans)... dilbert

[ThePipersSon]

Although the shapes are broadly similar, 2-4 had a buffet and two toilets whereas most of the later cars lacked such facilities, only three having a single toilet.

 

IMO the ends of railcars 1 to 4 were different to those of cars 5 to 17, having quite a different profile. Also, the side doors were swing doors on nos 2 to 4, whilst those on nos 5 to 17 were sliding.

 

I would love to acquire a model of one of the buffet cars (2, 3, or 4), but I think that a model of one of the others (5 to16, and maybe 17) would be more popular.

 

In any case I would have one, or more.

[Andy M]

Charlie,

 

I would certainly purchase a Streamlined Railcar if you are canvasing for numbers. Whilst it does not fit into my specific modelling criteria, as previously mentioned it is an iconic GWR design and would find a place in the display cabinet at the very least!

 

Regards,

 

Andy.

[malcolmy]

My vote would be for a GWR inspection saloon. Long lived and still running on various preserved lines, so a wide variety of liveries. They also ran all over the GWR/ WR so of wide appeal of a short train that can run on any type of model.

[steven156]

still sticking to my choice of the PEP derived units, (late 1970s - Present day),

 

locations such as Glasgow, Merseyside, London.

 

vast amount of different liveries,

 

Im surprised there hasnt even been a decent kit of this, let alone a RTR offering.

 

I would second that, would love a model of a class 314, especially in the new SpotRail livery! When I'm working on them people complain about the our 314's, but they are the unappreciated unsung heros of the inner suburbs. Despite being relatively unloved they are a rugged, reliable and simple design. Our 314's have worn BR Blue and Grey, Strathclyde PTE Orange and Black (with a fair few logo variations-the old SPTE/SPT logos, BR Double Arrows, The two different ScotRail whoosh logos, FirstGroup flying F logos) , SPT Rail Carmine and Cream and the SpotRail Saltire. And thats just the 314's! 313's, 315's, 507's, 508's..... Yawning gap in the market Charlie and Arran!

[Coach bogie]

My vote would be for a GWR inspection saloon. Long lived and still running on various preserved lines, so a wide variety of liveries. They also ran all over the GWR/ WR so of wide appeal of a short train that can run on any type of model.

There have been several kits for the GWR saloon produced already. Kemp/Peseverance in the past and 247 Developments more recently. Plus other versions from various sources including MTK, Tony Hammond, 5522, Comet etc

 

http://247developmen...wr_coaches.html

 

Will the market stand yet another even as rtr?

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Coach bogie]

I would certainly be interested in the original streamlined ;'banana'.

 

I would like to suggest removeable/plug in side skirts over the bogies to give maximum variation over the years.

I have half expected this to appear as a kit with the rest of Charlie's DMU/EMU kit range with his modular style allowing the variations of nos 1-16.

 

The bus scenaria springs to mind. Waited years since the demise of the Anbrico kit ,and now IKB models recent R Modeller ads for cast kits, Worsley Works producing etched kits and a the possibility of an rtr from Charlie.

 

 

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_GWR.htm

 

Look forward to future developments.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[malcolmy]

I believe that the existence of a coach kit does not have much relevance in comparison to the rtr market. But this isn't probably the thread for that discussion?

[Coach bogie]

I believe that the existence of a coach kit does not have much relevance in comparison to the rtr market.

I disagree. Commercial realities are very relevant. The existence of more than one kit version can have a significant influence on the commerical success of an rtr release, especially of a prototype of already limited sales potential. It reduces, even further, the opportunity to recover, design and tooling costs.

 

I have spent some time, this summer, going through the GWR carriage register with a kit producer, looking for potential etched coach kits for the future. Production estimates, with much lower set up costs compared to rtr, versus sales potential, resulted in a very short list.

 

A few years ago, consideration has given to production of the GWR Dynamometer car as an rtr-simple livery, due to the complex body shape. Research at the time, assured sales of approximately 500 units could be achieved, even with a price tag of over £100. As data was collected, it was discovered that another producer was already considering a kit version. Game over. Too few customers chasing too many units.

 

I would prefer an rtr version of many coach kits sat on my shelf, so I can spend my limited modelling building the kits that will never be made rtr, but commercial realities dictate otherwise.

 

Regards

 

Mike Wiltshire

[malcolmy]

Well each to their own. The quality I could achieve building an etched brass coach kit would not compare with a recent RTR offering. And I investigated having a 247 Developments coach kit built professionally and it was over £300 I seem to recall. Much more than a loco kit even!

 

So I don't think that the target markets for etched brass coach kits and RTR are necessarily the same set of modellers.

[The Stationmaster]

Well each to their own. The quality I could achieve building an etched brass coach kit would not compare with a recent RTR offering. And I investigated having a 247 Developments coach kit built professionally and it was over £300 I seem to recall. Much more than a loco kit even!

 

So I don't think that the target markets for etched brass coach kits and RTR are necessarily the same set of modellers.

My own situation is simple - there's no way on earth, especially with a touch of arthritis, that I could achieve anything like the finished lining standards of a really good r-t-r model, especially on the complex shape of a streamlined railcar; Chinese fingers would seem to be a good bit nimbler than mine.

[Coach bogie]

 

So I don't think that the target markets for etched brass coach kits and RTR are necessarily the same set of modellers.

 

Unfortunately there is a cross over between the two markets, any any potential threat to sales impacts on decision to go on any product. Despite the interest declared in this thread, an inspection saloon is specialist item and is unlikely to generate mass sales.

 

I am like both Mike & Malcolm, even with 30 years of kit building, I cannot come anywhere close to modern tool and printing techniques. I only wish I could say, 'yes,go ahead. It will sell thousands'. Yes i would buy one. Unfortuately a reality check shows it is not like that.

 

Conversely, at the right price there appears to be a mass market for railcars 1-16. I have seen unbuilt Anbrico ones changing hands for £300+. Despite many old Lima ones about, Hornby appear to be doing well with their revamped Railroad example. Charlie, If this one goes ahaead, you would get my full support and I would be spreading the word throughout the Great Western Study Group via its publications.

 

With the high set up cost involved before you have taken a penny in revenue, the cottage industry suppliers have a lot to lose financially if they get it wrong, including their homes.

 

Regards

 

Mike Wiltshire

[charliepetty]

 

Unfortunately there is a cross over between the two markets, any any potential threat to sales impacts on decision to go on any product. Despite the interest declared in this thread, an inspection saloon is specialist item and is unlikely to generate mass sales.

 

I am like both Mike & Malcolm, even with 30 years of kit building, I cannot come anywhere close to modern tool and printing techniques. I only wish I could say, 'yes,go ahead. It will sell thousands'. Yes i would buy one. Unfortuately a reality check shows it is not like that.

 

Conversely, at the right price there appears to be a mass market for railcars 1-16. I have seen unbuilt Anbrico ones changing hands for £300+. Despite many old Lima ones about, Hornby appear to be doing well with their revamped Railroad example. Charlie, If this one goes ahaead, you would get my full support and I would be spreading the word throughout the Great Western Study Group via its publications.

 

With the high set up cost involved before you have taken a penny in revenue, the cottage industry suppliers have a lot to lose financially if they get it wrong, including their homes.

 

Regards

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Thanks for your comments, both mine and Arrans homes are very safe, no worries there! It true what you say, always risky, we have had some good suggestions, the GWR Railcar is mine. But as people know I do like DMUs!

 

Sentinal Railcars are nice too, but very restrictive on liveries. Keep em coming, as we are listening. Arran & Charlie

[57xx]

I'd buy a GWR streamline railcar if you did one. I've always preferred them over the later version but as the Lima one was the only one available at the time, I put up with it.

 

Also I'll place the 2nd bid in for a GWR 6400 pannier. There's only so many times you can get excited over Bachmann re-releasing the 5700 and 8750!

[Pennine MC]

I must admit I like this idea, it wouldn't need to be GWR prototype either, some of the LMS versions are long lived.

 

For sales it does have the no-one else may do it, you only need one tooled rather than a pair, quirky but interesting prototypes, good variety of liveries, grouping, BR blood & Custard, maroon, blue grey, & railtrack for starters. Most modellers could 'justify' having one to run as an inspection special, quite a good idea I think.

 

Me too LMS one would be the most obvious.

 

There are three 'single vehicle train' kind of oddities I tend to think of together - inspection saloons, brake tenders and snowploughs. The latter's been done, has anybody mentioned a brake tender though?

 

I would like to support the suggestion of Transpennine units (and class 123 too).

 

I'm intrigued by the popularity of these. Obviously I'd not say no to either, but it does occur to me that it could become the next Bl*e P*llman Brighton Belle unit train icon, in that many/most who are asking dont fully understand or appreciate what they're asking for. Discuss

[newbryford]

 

But as people know I do like DMUs!

 

I'd like a 142 please - I know a man who has measurements and photos....................

 

Cheers,

Mick

[The Stationmaster]

re Trans Pennine/Swindon Inter-City dmus (latterly Classes 124 & 123)

I'm intrigued by the popularity of these. Obviously I'd not say no to either, but it does occur to me that it could become the next Bl*e P*llman Brighton Belle unit train icon, in that many/most who are asking dont fully understand or appreciate what they're asking for. Discuss

 

Even worse than the others you mention I reckon If I've got it right the original Trans Pennine sets were 6 car units consisting of 2 x 3 car coupled with 4 different types of vehicle but then one type of vehicle (the buffet cars were withdrawn) and the Motor Brake Seconds lost their engines to become Trailer Brake and the vehicles were reformed into 4 car sets; thus far we have got to 5 different types of vehicle although one of them was a conversion of one of the original 4 types, and just to help things along in one of the Driving Motor Compos the 1st Class accommodation was eventually declassified (=different lettering if nothing else). That is without considering liveries or how much yellow paint was applied, or not applied, to the front ends of one type of vehicle (with or without its 1st Class seating).

 

We can then drop in Swindon's DMu swansong which, of course, had different bogies from the TransPennines and came when new with 5 different types of vehicle - and even when I travelled on them daily to & from work I found it difficult to keep up with the way set formations seemed to be 'messed about. They did however seem to share one common vehicle type with the Trans Pennines - leaving only 4 other types needed to make up a train of these things. The other problem with modelling them is accurately getting an engine to drop off in teh appropriate place as the set leaves the depot.

 

Now I might have got things slightly awry but with all these permutations I think I might just be excused - but I'm sure that Charlie wouldn't be if he made a similar error But what about the tooling costs? Yes some features are clearly shared between vehicles if we take the Trans Pennines as the base case but you still need at least 4 different types of vehicle, I think, to model even the simplest formation. Then you hit all the 'how do I sell them and how do I decide the quantities' etc problems - not an easy guess to make.

 

The way I tend to look at these things is from the angle of 'what if it was my time & money being used to make the investment?' And the answer to that is easy - keep things as simple as possible (e.g a single powered item which could run on its own) which I can sell at a reasonably high price (in order to get a return asap) in sufficient quantities to cover my costs/make a profit; so don't lumber myself with awkward mixtures of vehicle types but look for simplicity selling whatever it is as a single item.