Lack of petrol stations on some jouirneys

[45156]

I went from home to York last week, and on the night before we went, it was raining so heavily that I came out of the shops, back to the car, and forgot to fill up with petrol. I remembered in the middle of the night.

 

I was setting off quite early, and our local garage doesn't start until well after I was due on the road. So I had to detour into Lancaster to the only 24 hour filling station nearby. But I started to check on the way over (A65/A59) where the first open petrol station on the direct route might turn up. I only passed one at Gargrave and that only opened at 08.00 (I passed at about 07.15). All the others had closed rather more permanently, and had I been looking for petrol, the first outlet would have been Harrogate. Now that's a long drive if you are running with the low fuel light on, and worrying about how far you'll get.

 

I saw a similar situation in Scotland on another major road, the A71, where there was no petrol between Stonehouse and Galston - another long trip.

 

But I got to thinking that there do seem to be a lot less places to fill up nowadays, and even many of these seem to be open shorter hours than they were - so in future if I'm planning a long run on A roads, not motorways, I think I'll have to make sure that I start the run with a full tank!

 

Anybody else think the same?

[Hobby]

Yep, there are definitely less than there used to be, though its the same across Belgium and Germany... 24 hour unattended ones are common over there but I've not seen any over here...

[45156]

Yep, there are definitely less than there used to be, though its the same across Belgium and Germany... 24 hour unattended ones are common over there but I've not seen any over here...

There are some - mainly in the UK on supermarket forecourts which are open 24/7 and will sell you fuel if you have a vaild debit or credit card. Our local ASDA and Morrisons have these and they seem to be quite well patronised.

[chrisf]

It's a good idea to keep store finders in the glove box. I have them for Tesco and Sainsburys but haven't come across the equivalent booklets for Asda and Morrisons yet. Since the price at supermarkets can be up to 10p a litre less than on motorways it is worth knowing where they are!

 

Chris

[stewartingram]

You petrol/diesel guys have it easy! Try running on lpg, that will sort your brain into forward planning mode.

Just as an example, where I live within 1/2 mile is a BP forecourt @ 79.9p (2nd dearest for lpg in UK over the past 10 years) so I try to avoid it. 5 miles away in March a "proper" lpg site (well almost, its a service dealer for cars with a tank, not a normal petrol station) but nearly as expensive. About 30 miles away is Morrisons at Kings Lynn, good price (probably about 71.9 at the moment). In the south direction is Morrisons at Cambourne, 25 miles & same sort of price. East is Ely, about 15 miles, again a very expensive BP forecourt. Cambridge at about 25 miles has a real Calor site that sells lpg (usually the best places to go to for price) but moderately expensive, on past experience I'm guessing around 76p. West to Peterborough at about 20 miles, there are at least 2 options, a supermarket at round 74p and a Flogas dealer at around 78p (poor price considering he supplies garage forecourts). So thats a radius of 25/30 miles from home, including 2 cities, & less than 10 places to fill up! Compare that to petrol/diesel forecourts in the same radius from home, quite a difference. I believe there are about a 1000 sites in total nationwide.

However the cost benefit, even with rip-off forecourt prices for what is basically a waste by-product, gives me at least 1/2 price motoring, which is why I use it. On a journey, a satnav is vital to find lpg sites well before they are needed, in fact its more useful for that than map directions in my view.

Stewart

[Nile_Griffith]

From what I can remember of an event I worked a while back. As silly as it sounds, the petrol forecourt industry is finding it tough going at present. A relatively tiny chunk of the price per litre goes to the forecourt operators as operating profit and with the supermarkets effectively running their forecourts as loss leaders it has been hard for them to keep up. Coupled with the fact that a lot of forecourts have been in place since the 60's, and 70's many of these sites are now in need of major upgrades to their fuel storage tanks. An upgrade which is prohibitively expensive for a business with such high cost, small margins and the extensive legal requirements of today. So a lot of independent petrol retailers are shutting up shop or just running their sites as car washes, which in all, make far more money.

[spamcan61]

So a lot of independent petrol retailers are shutting up shop or just running their sites as car washes, which in all, make far more money.

 

I can think of three within a few miles of me that have become 'hand car wash' places in the last couple of years; in the last 6 years both village garages have stopped selling petrol, and we're not even that near a supermarket. Doubtless the supermarkets will continue the seemingly common policy of selling cheap petrol until they've bankrupted the local competition, then putting their prices up.

[45156]

A relatively tiny chunk of the price per litre goes to the forecourt operators as operating profit

 

Indeed true - I am friendly with the owner of our local garage which offers forecourt service for petrol, as well as car sales and workshop services - he is a Ford Retail dealer, and offers petrol from Total - who control the price that he MUST charge - he gets a fax from them, and that's the price he has to charge for the coming week, regardless of what the Shell four miles away, or the supermarkets are charging.

 

Now here's the rub - his retail margin is about 3p a litre on petrol and diesel, and that has not increased for some years. He has never bothered to convert his pumps to self service, and employs a guy who works the forecourt and also helps out wherever else he's needed. He has often told me that petrol on its own is not worth the light, and were it not for the workshop and car sales, he'd have packed up years ago. Mind you, he's a shrewd cookie, and when another filling station came on the market about three miles up the road, he bought it, stripped the tanks out, demolished the forecourt buildings, got planning permission for a large house, and sold the site on as a development plot with planning - in one fell swoop, he got rid of the nearest opposition, and still (I believe) managed to come out about even on the deal.

[30801]

You petrol/diesel guys have it easy! Try running on lpg, that will sort your brain into forward planning mode.

I caught a bit of that Eddie Stobart programme that's been on lately. They have a truck that runs on liquefied natural gas and there are just four places in the whole country where they can fill it up

[RJS1977]

Yep, there are definitely less than there used to be, though its the same across Belgium and Germany... 24 hour unattended ones are common over there but I've not seen any over here...

 

I can't remember where it is, but I know there is a national boundary in that part of Europe which has a major road running along it. All the filling stations on that road are on the same side, because the tax is cheaper!

 

Richard

[Ozexpatriate]

But I got to thinking that there do seem to be a lot less places to fill up nowadays, ...

It depends where you are. This is a grim stretch of road if you are low on fuel.

 

I had to rescue my son when he ran out of gas at night coming the other way.

[Hobby]

We crossed the border into Poland this year... Germany charging Euro 1.38/1.42 east of Berlin and Poland Euro 1.18! Needless to say the place was full of Germans filling up their tanks... and jerry cans!

[muddys-blues]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we run a Family owned Garage Business, of which one part is a Petrol forecourt, we get our fuel from one the Big four fuel suppliers, and lets say this game is not the best one to be in at the moment, but fuel is a need that gets customers into our site.

 

Now we have had a tanker delivery today, of which it was made up of 18,000 litres of Petrol and 18,000 litres of Derv, and if I tell you that the invoice for this amount is £41094.00 + VAT, and we will make approx £1008.00 profit, which will then be subject to 20% VAT, you wonder why Independent Garage retailers have packed up and sold the land or used the property for other purposes, in truth it is sickening.

 

I'm not to sure how many people understand how much of a litre of fuel the Goverment make, so here is a breakdown on yesterdays average prices.

 

The average pump price of petrol in the UK yesterday was 134.8 pence per litre, fuel duty prior to the pump sale is almost 58 pence per litre, then the sale of 134.8 pence is subject to 20% VAT, this is 22.5 pence, so on every litre you are buying at 134.8 pence, the Goverment has 80.5 pence.

 

Tthe Garage retailer themselves make between on average 2 - 3 pence per litre depending on the price at purchase, the rest is the supplying Oil Company.

[Unknown Warrior]

The good news is that modern cars have large fuel tanks. These days I try to fill up when I get down to half full so I also have some in hand. It also helps to prevent £70 bills to fill the whole tank. At least it spreads the agony!

[jcm@gwr]

Hi guys,

I've filled up on that road, RJS1977, it's on the border between Luxembourg and Belgium. The other side of the road is lined with shops and houses,

all of which are boarded up! IIRC it worked out about 20% cheaper in Lux., this was back in the 80's

Cheers, Jeff

[Jenny Emily]

I caught a bit of that Eddie Stobart programme that's been on lately. They have a truck that runs on liquefied natural gas and there are just four places in the whole country where they can fill it up

 

All the hauliers I have had dealings with who run such vehicles have a means to fill them on site, rather than relying on places on the road. It did make for an interesting trip a couple of years ago though when doing a trip from Bolton to Newport South Wales to find that the previous driver hadn't filled the tank properly; it isn't like you can do a splash and dash at the services with one of those things.

 

These days fuel prices are so steep that the average truck driver will get paid less to drive a lorry than the value of diesel it will use over the same period.

 

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

From what I understand from friends in the trade, small retailers hope the driver buys an ice cream/chocolate bar/can of drink for each of the occupants, that way he makes more profit than the fuel.

[JZ]

You want to tour the north of Scotland. Many gaps of over 40 miles between pumps and then these can be 15-20p litre above average UK price.

[Xerces Fobe2]

I have 2litre diesel car which does @ 60-65 mpg @ 700 miles to the tank. expensive to fill up but allows me to wait until I am near the well known supermarket chain that always has the cheapest fuel! I was in Cornwall a couple of weeks ago most petrol stations had diesel @ £!.40/ltr and failed to reduce it when the wholesale oil price dropped whist the the supermarket chain store near Falmouth at one point was selling diesel at £1.32.9/ltr.

 

Xerces Fobe

[Oldddudders]

Here in France the supermarkets dominate the fuel market completely in rural areas - which is most of this rather large country! Some months ago, Deb and I spent the morning parked a few miles away, watching a classic rally come through - with lots of exotic cars from the 50s onwards. Because the rally was a fairly major event, there were police accompanying it on motor-cycles. They had started their day very early in Paris, and a couple of them stopped by us to enquire the location of the nearest Total garage - bikes only hold so much fuel. They looked a little crestfallen when the locals couldn't think of one anywhere nearby, as they faced the awful prospect of a refill at Super U or Intermarche - and having to pay and claim it back!

[t-b-g]

We crossed the border into Poland this year... Germany charging Euro 1.38/1.42 east of Berlin and Poland Euro 1.18! Needless to say the place was full of Germans filling up their tanks... and jerry cans!

 

German tanks moving into Poland? 1939 all over again Maybe the original unpleasantness was a misunderstanding and the Germans only wanted to fill up with fuel at good prices

[melmerby]

I have 2litre diesel car which does @ 60-65 mpg @ 700 miles to the tank.

Xerces Fobe

 

There is a current advert for some smallish Japanese car with a couple of twits with 'Geordie' accents saying this car is so economical you can get 593 miles (I think) per tank full.

Like you I have a two litre diesel I get that normally!

 

Keith

[Pugsley]

so on every litre you are buying at 134.8 pence, the Goverment has 80.5 pence.

Yes it's a disgrace really. However, I had to have a bit of a laugh when I read this the other day:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2012480/Fuel-sales-fall-BILLION-litres-637m-hole-Treasurys-tank.html

 

The b'stards have Laffer Curved themselves! The only downside is that they'll no doubt put up the tax on something else...

[Jack]

The average pump price of petrol in the UK yesterday was 134.8 pence per litre, fuel duty prior to the pump sale is almost 58 pence per litre, then the sale of 134.8 pence is subject to 20% VAT, this is 22.5 pence, so on every litre you are buying at 134.8 pence, the Goverment has 80.5 pence.

 

Yup, there is nothing finer than paying VAT on fuel duty ... a sort of tax on tax

[pH]

You want to tour the north of Scotland. Many gaps of over 40 miles between pumps and then these can be 15-20p litre above average UK price.

With the additional complication, in places, of the Sabbath! Having left Scotland 40 years ago, I'd forgotten about that. A couple of years ago, on a Sunday, I drove from Mallaig to Fort William on fumes, at about 30 mph, anxiously comparing the 'mileage left on fuel remaining' to the distance signs all the way!