Hornby B1

[DougN]

Having looked at the comparison. I know I will be happy with the Hornby one I have already ordered and hopefully is winging its way to me.

 

I am not a expert on the B1's but I have built the B1 chassis from Dave Bradwell. This is a lovely bit of kit (though the number of peices is scary just for a chassis) I notice that Hornby have done a lovely job below the running plate though in shadow/darkness not all can be seen. I will be most upset when the first one that has been P4'ed turns up. As all I have to do on my B1 is resolder a bogie dust sheild and paint the chassis

 

As Silverstreak has mentioned above years ago the only way to get certain details on a loco was to do it yourself. The new addage may end up being "we have never had it so good". I will just point people in the direction of 4mm Loco's from RTR by Tim Shackleton to see the amount of work that can go into a B1, and to be honest I really don't think you have to do it any more!

[Markeg]

The photos are excellent and give a good indication of differences. Both look excellent.

 

I will wait till I read what Tony Wright has to say, and also have too many things coming this Christmas-New Year period, so I will budget for one in the new year sometime. No hurry mind you. May flog the old Bachmann LNER Roedeer off too.

 

Mark

[Martin_R]

To my untrained eye there seems to be a moulding line just above the handrail running along the smokebox, boiler and firebox on the Hornby version. Anyone got a detail photos or observations on this as I suspect my weathering methods will emphasise this no end?

 

Thanks in advance.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I would suggest dragging a really sharp scalpel blade gently over this, and checking against the light to see when it is eliminated, before commencing weathering. Hornby A3s are tooled like this, and the alignment and fit is typically so close any witness mark is eliminated sufficiently with a couple of passes that even the lightest weathering treatment conceals the site of operations.

[Silverstreak]

Futher to my earlier comment regarding the lower rear coal division plate on the tender of Hornby's B1 61180, having done a little more research I can say that Hornby have got it spot on for the period modelled. Later on in service these lower plates were replaced with a higher type which were positioned slightly further forward as can be seen depicted on the Bachmann B1 tender.

 

 

An interesting thread this one as it covers one of my favourite loco types and although I moved to O gauge some time back I retain an avid interest in 4mm releases. I look on with envy at the general accuracy and detail that both Bachmann and Hornby have provided over the past ten years making kit building almost obsolete.Unless of course you want a B16, K1, Q6, or J27

Bob

Edited December 15, 2011 by Silverstreak

[Martin_R]

I would suggest dragging a really sharp scalpel blade gently over this, and checking against the light to see when it is eliminated, before commencing weathering. Hornby A3s are tooled like this, and the alignment and fit is typically so close any witness mark is eliminated sufficiently with a couple of passes that even the lightest weathering treatment conceals the site of operations.

 

Many thanks - just waiting for my 61243 to arrive!

[The Black Hat]

Excellent pair of comparison shots although I dont recall seeing the cabside numbers set that high up on B1. Plus the tender fitted to the Hornby model appears to a have very low rear coal plate compared to the Bachmann tender variant. I only recall them with the higher rear plate and it will be interesting to see if the later emblem model differs.

 

I agree the Bachmann body profile stands up well considering its over 25 years old but even so when I had mine I added the Bradwell bits and replaced all the handrail knobs with Gibson. The Hornby model requires very little in the way of alteration. Back in the day when the B1 first appeared (I think it was Replica produced then) as far as I was concerned if you wanted a more authentic model or a specific variant it was normal practice to purchase the bits to do the job. It was part of the joy of modelling. Fast forward to the present day Shock horror if some detail is incorrect or if it has the wrong smokebox door, Dear me I guess we have become too used to having it all "On a plate".

 

I agree the photographs are brilliant comparrions, but take issue with the part about wanting it on a plate. Problem some have, like me who has not altered engines too much (repaints yes and coaches but I haven't taken to cutting too many engines), is that the engines are expensive to start to work on, or modern tooling in recent years has meant that detail changes have been incorportated and that its a case of waiting for the right model to be done with the right features. This I think is the case of the NER style smokebox, but I would think it highly likely it will be done in the future. Its not a case of can you do it, but a case of can you do it to the standard and finesse of the models that are made now, especially when your considering an upgraded or detailed model like the B1. If your not prepared to wait, or doubt whether your efforts would ruin it - then perhaps maybe you buy the model for what it is as its as close as youd get for the time being.

 

Meanwhile I am prepared to wait for the Hornby NER style smokebox, although I think Bachmann's B1 looks pretty close.

[Pennine MC]

 

... Problem some have, like me who has not altered engines too much ... is that the engines are expensive to start to work on, ... Its not a case of can you do it, but a case of can you do it to the standard and finesse of the models that are made now, ...

 

So, as I always say with weathering - build up your experience on cheaper models. Nobody on this forum set out with full grown skills, the sooner you start the sooner you'll get to where you want to be.

 

If your not prepared to wait, or doubt whether your efforts would ruin it - then perhaps maybe you buy the model for what it is as its as close as youd get for the time being.

 

Yep, that's pretty much it I think. This idea of 'waiting til they do the one I want' is relatively new - when some of us started out, there was absolutely no point in waiting for variations, 'cos it just wasnt going to happen.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Pennine MC

[benachie]

Silverstreak,

"Futher to my earlier comment regarding the lower rear coal division plate on the tender of Hornby's B1 61180, having done a little more research I can say that Hornby have got it spot on for the period modelled. Later on in service these lower plates were replaced with a higher type which were positioned slightly further forward as can be seen depicted on the Bachmann B1 tender."

 

And on the late crest Hornby 61243 - spot on again!

Alan

[Silverstreak]

 

I agree the photographs are brilliant comparrions, but take issue with the part about wanting it on a plate. Problem some have, like me who has not altered engines too much (repaints yes and coaches but I haven't taken to cutting too many engines), is that the engines are expensive to start to work on, or modern tooling in recent years has meant that detail changes have been incorportated and that its a case of waiting for the right model to be done with the right features. This I think is the case of the NER style smokebox, but I would think it highly likely it will be done in the future. Its not a case of can you do it, but a case of can you do it to the standard and finesse of the models that are made now, especially when your considering an upgraded or detailed model like the B1. If your not prepared to wait, or doubt whether your efforts would ruin it - then perhaps maybe you buy the model for what it is as its as close as youd get for the time being.

 

Meanwhile I am prepared to wait for the Hornby NER style smokebox, although I think Bachmann's B1 looks pretty close.

 

 

Im intrigued re the wait for a "NER smokebox door" variant. If you mean the Darlington built ones these were produced in two separate batches 61000 - 09 and 61010 to 30. The door diameter, curvature and gap between the hinges differed from one batch to the other. Keeping in mind that some examples would have exchanged doors at works during their lifetime means that one really needs a good image of the particular loco for the period modelled. That Hornby will produce an example from the first batch of ten -- well who knows perhaps as Bachmann already does a flatter door variant Hornby could well give that type a pass. Lifes too short just bite the bullet.

Bob

Edited December 15, 2011 by Silverstreak

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... This idea of 'waiting til they do the one I want' is relatively new ...

Certainly is. With both the Bachmann A2 and Heljan baby deltic, perhaps as recently as a couple of years ago I would have been attacking first releases to get the appropriate Southern area allocated A2, and an all green disc headcode EE type 2. But in the present situation of so many appropriate models coming out that the budget is at full stretch; and some of the subjects being such tiny classes that a very few years of relivery reissues will cover the whole class: damnit, I will wait until the one I want near inevitably appears.

 

Ah, here comes 'Happy Knight'...

[Silverstreak]

Silverstreak,

"Futher to my earlier comment regarding the lower rear coal division plate on the tender of Hornby's B1 61180, having done a little more research I can say that Hornby have got it spot on for the period modelled. Later on in service these lower plates were replaced with a higher type which were positioned slightly further forward as can be seen depicted on the Bachmann B1 tender."

 

And on the late crest Hornby 61243 - spot on again!

Alan

 

Yes it does Alan Ive just had a look at the image of 61243 on Hattons site and it looks real quality. Very nice rendition of the electric light fittings, insigina look spot on

Bob

[Pennine MC]

But in the present situation of so many appropriate models coming out that the budget is at full stretch; and some of the subjects being such tiny classes that a very few years of relivery reissues will cover the whole class: damnit, I will wait until the one I want near inevitably appears.

 

Yeah, dont get me wrong; I'm not saying it isnt sometimes a good idea, and like many folk I have a long a list of projects that could be possibly kept from getting longer by interpretation of what *might* be on the way - this is surely why threads like this are as popular with 'doers' as 'box openers'. But as ever, there needs to be realism, and that's what's sadly sometimes lacking.

[The Black Hat]

 

 

Im intrigued re the wait for a "NER smokebox door" variant. If you mean the Darlington built ones these were produced in two separate batches 61000 - 09 and 61010 to 30. The door diameter, curvature and gap between the hinges differed from one batch to the other. Keeping in mind that some examples would have exchanged doors at works during their lifetime means that one really needs a good image of the particular loco for the period modelled. That Hornby will produce an example from the first batch of ten -- well who knows perhaps as Bachmann already does a flatter door variant Hornby could well give that type a pass. Lifes too short just bite the bullet.

Bob

 

I dont think the NER smokebox door is just for Darlington built engines to my knowledge. Despite both B1s in preservation both being North British locomotive company engines, B1 61264 has a Darlington NER type smokebox, which Id think would be done by Hornby later, especially with the named B1s being Darlington built. Im not sure if North British used different types of door, but expect as mentioned, that it was swapped during a works visit. 61264 is the engine Id like done for my line first, with 61008 "Gnu" for a layout I've planed for later.... so if Hornby's reading this, please modify your 3rd Jan annoucement accordindly.... Id be most gratified....

[Silverstreak]

I suspect 61264 got its smaller flat door via a whole smokebox swap during some works visit. Being an ER loco all of its works visits were to either Stratford or Doncaster, the last at Doncaster in 1962

 

Interestingly it was mooted by the 61264 B1 group some time back that as part of its current overhaul they would be changing the smokebox door for a bigger door with greater curvature more common amongst B1's. We should not have to wait too long see as it should be back by next Spring/Summer

 

If it appears with another door type oh dear Hornby's post bag will be full !!!!

[Gilwell Park]

 

 

Im intrigued re the wait for a "NER smokebox door" variant. If you mean the Darlington built ones these were produced in two separate batches 61000 - 09 and 61010 to 30. The door diameter, curvature and gap between the hinges differed from one batch to the other. Keeping in mind that some examples would have exchanged doors at works during their lifetime means that one really needs a good image of the particular loco for the period modelled. That Hornby will produce an example from the first batch of ten -- well who knows perhaps as Bachmann already does a flatter door variant Hornby could well give that type a pass. Lifes too short just bite the bullet.

Bob

 

Hi

 

Don't forget that the first 10 Darlington locos were built over a period of 18 months during war time. They exhibited several differences when compared with the later production. Apart from the use of welding fabrication rather than casting to save time they were fitted with different bogies, and wheel centres of V2 design for economic reasons. These wheels had crescent shaped balance weights rather than straight edged, some of which were later modified with additional weights. Similar wheels were also fitted to 61010-61039. Darlington in fact only built 60 B1, compared to 290 from NB, 50 from Vulcan and 10 from Gorton, which had different dome covers. It must have cost a fair amount of money to set up production at Gorton for only 10 locos. In addition to at least 3 different shapes of cab steps and electric lighting of two different systems on some locos the only solution if you want to be 100% accuirate is a photo of your particular loco at the appropriate time.

 

Roger.

[coachmann]

My Hornby B1 arrived today and I spent this evening digging out photos of B1's on the Standedge line in the early to mid 1950s. All had a well dished smokebox doors, most with rivetted hinges and so it looks like I've got a ittle more to do than just a chimney exchange and renumber.

[Silverstreak]

My Hornby B1 arrived today and I spent this evening digging out photos of B1's on the Standedge line in the early to mid 1950s. All had a well dished smokebox doors, most with rivetted hinges and so it looks like I've got a ittle more to do than just a chimney exchange and renumber.

 

Looks like a Scale Hardware rivet job Larry. I hope you have some in the spares box

Bob

[Bernard Lamb]

I was in favour of using the cheapest version as a starting point but now that I have seen the various details on the Hornby model I hink it is a case of horses for course. You will need a photo of both the front and the rear on a given date to get things right. I do like the Hornby offer of the alternative tender detail. That opens up many options to mix and match. I finished up with far too many A3s by doing that.

I do have a little smile to myself to see so much written concerning a machine designed by that perverse and autocratic chap, who when mentioned by name usually brings forth an endless diatribe of abuse.

Bernard

[bluex5]

II do have a little smile to myself to see so much written concerning a machine designed by that perverse and autocratic chap, who when mentioned by name usually brings forth an endless diatribe of abuse.

Bernard

 

Had "he" not built a range of godawful Pacifics he would of been fondly remembered for the B1, a great mixed traffic design. But he did, and he isn't.

Edited December 16, 2011 by bluex5

[7013]

Having pondered a while and read throught the various pros and cons I am going to go for the Hornby model, just need to find out what numbers visited the Banbury area so that I can do a renumber. I am not au fait enough with the B1 to know if I buy one and renumber it that I will be renumbering the correct variant, but I can live with that.

Edited December 16, 2011 by 7013

['CHARD]

I do have a little smile to myself to see so much written concerning a machine designed by that perverse and autocratic chap, who when mentioned by name usually brings forth an endless diatribe of abuse.

I count myself fortunate that I am blissfully unaware of the personality politics that attach to earlier eras, I'm so inclined that it would interfere with my modelling.

 

It's an interesting parallel with my children, whose enjoyment of certain music from 'my' past is untainted by encyclopedic knowledge of the characters that made that music possible.

 

It's not so much that things are airbrushed out from history, rather that subsequent arrivals to any 'scene' have a wide-eyed naivete.

[iak]

 

Looks like a Scale Hardware rivet job Larry. I hope you have some in the spares box

Bob

 

Try the Archer rivets.

 

http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=archer&page=3

 

No need to go stateside anymore...

[Silverstreak]

 

Try the Archer rivets.

 

http://www.dccsuppli...s=archer&page=3

 

No need to go stateside anymore...

 

Thanks iak -- I have to say this is a completly new product for me having in the past relied soley on importing scale metal rivets from the USA. Im very interested to know how the individual rivet examples are extracted from the sheet and then fixed to the model. Sounds ideal for 4mm but I would need to be convinced before using them for 7mm

Bob

Edited December 16, 2011 by Silverstreak

[Ian Hargrave]

Having pondered a while and read throught the various pros and cons I am going to go for the Hornby model, just need to find out what numbers visited the Banbury area so that I can do a renumber. I am not au fait enough with the B1 to know if I buy one and renumber it that I will be renumbering the correct variant, but I can live with that.

7013--if this helps--some detective work for you. According to my Locospotters Log Book,on 19/4/1959--a Sunday,I'copped' 61008 at Swindon station at the head of what I think was a train bound for York (possibly originating from Swansea) via ex-G.C. metals--i.e. Oxford-Banbury-Leicester etc. It was,I think, a regular weekend working at the time. So--take it from there. Good luck--Ian.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Ian Hargrave