Hornby Decoders

[Lochinvar]

Hi

 

I started today to transfer control of my locos from a Bachmann E-Z to a newly-acquired NCE PowerCab. Apart from having the ability to read and adjust CVs,I particularly wanted to move from 1-figure to long (4-figure) addressing. I managed to change addresses ok with my Hornby "Clan" and Black 5 both of which I think are fitted with the Hornby R8249. But I failed with a Royal Scot (R2628X) and Rebuilt Patriot (R2633X). I have no idea what decoder Hornby has fitted to them,but they were both purchased new within the past 3 years. The PowerCab is reading the decoders as "Manufacturer 255,Version (0)12". Is anyone able to advise on whether they are capable of taking a 4-figure address?

 

DR

[RFS]

If they're the R8215 version then the answer is no - they don't support 4-digit addresses. The simple way to tell the difference is to look at the decoder if you can take the body off: if it has a red dot then it's the R8215, whereas a blue dot signifies an R8249 that has the newer firnware supporting 4-digit addresses.

[Mr.S.corn78]

Hi,

 

I have yet to come across a dcc fitted Hornby model that has an R8249 decoder fitted.

 

As well as a red dot you will find a very light coloured lilac wire which was on the early Hornby decoders.

 

I would say to replace the decoders with the R8249 or similar

 

Cheers

Simon

[Ron Ron Ron]

.....if it has a red dot then it's the R8215, whereas a blue dot signifies an R8249 that has the newer firnware supporting 4-digit addresses.

....As well as a red dot you will find a very light coloured lilac wire which was on the early Hornby decoders.

IIRC, the R8215 was updated twice, meaning there were 3 versions.

If I've got it right, there were Red, Yellow and White dot versions, as they tried (unsuccessfully) to fix its problems; finally replacing it with the Blue dotted R8249.

 

.

[Nile_Griffith]

If Honest I'd say to replace all of your Hornby decoders regardless. If you've bothered to make the investment in an NCE Powercab then using the old and if honest poor quality Hornby de-coders is a bit of a false economy.

 

Sorry to sound a bit harsh on this.

[RFS]

I replaced all my Hornby decoders with Lenz Standard+ with a huge improvement in performance and reliability. The only problem with these is that they are quite large - about the same size as the Bachmann ones so you'd need to check whether they'll fit.

 

I remember one R8215 having a red dot and another having no markings at all, so I think it's safe to say that a blue dot indicates R8249 and anything else R8215. I believe that all 3 versions have the same circuitry but with different levels of the firmware, which is why the R8249 is sometimes referred to as 1.3.

 

Both Hornby versions have only 0.5 amps continuous motor output compared to 1 amp of the Lenz (and other similar quality decoders).

[melmerby]

A good replacement for a Hornby decoder would be a TCS M1 series as they are similar size but vastly superior performance.

At one time they were definitely in the upper budget level at £14-£15 but have crept up to £21-£22!

 

Keith

[Lochinvar]

Thanks,gents,for all this advice. I do seem to recall having seen some unflattering remarks elsewhere on the forum about the quality of the Hornby-fitted products.

 

It looks like a phased programme of replacement by Lenz/TCS is called for. Meanwhile,I'll just have to contend with some 3-figure addressing. (It's also going to be necessary with a Bachmann DCC "on-board" Standard Tank which I know is limited to 3-figures).

 

DR

[Guest 40-something]

Hi Folks

 

I have to post in defence of the Hornby R8249, I have no issues with running them in my steam loco fleet (and a couple of diesels). I've had one rogue decoder which eventually fried itself in a Bachmann 9F, no probs with the replacement one on though.

 

I do realise that TCS, Lenz etc etc give better performace but for a budget price, I certainly cant complain.

[dave flint]

Hi Folks

 

I have to post in defence of the Hornby R8249, I have no issues with running them in my steam loco fleet (and a couple of diesels). I've had one rogue decoder which eventually fried itself in a Bachmann 9F, no probs with the replacement one on though.

 

I do realise that TCS, Lenz etc etc give better performace but for a budget price, I certainly cant complain.

 

Me too. I've said it before, I have a good few 8249's, and in the right application (small low amp motors etc) they're great. Very smooth runners in my sons underground ernie and thomas stuff. I'm replacing a few in the 040 and 060 models in favour of the DCC concept decoders - for the stay alive feature - and to be able to tweak top speed, which you can't do in the 8249 - but control wise I can't grumble.

 

I tried a variety of decoders in "ernie 1", and none was as smooth and responsive as the 8249.

[Pete the Elaner]

I would agree with the above 2 posts. I have several R8249s & have never had a problem with them.

 

I was wondering just how big Hornby's stock-pile of old chips was. My only factory-fitted loco would not accept a 4-digit address & my Powercab cannot read back the version code. The loco is about 3 years old & when I removed the chip, I found it was smaller than what I remember an 8249 being.

I recently had the choice of DCC fitted or ready when buying a new model. I am glad I bought the DCC ready & chipped it myself.

 

The original Hornby chip has given their brand a bad name & they are not doing themselves any favours by continuing to use up their stockpile of them.

[melmerby]

The loco is about 3 years old & when I removed the chip, I found it was smaller than what I remember an 8249 being.

As far as I am aware the R8215 and R8249 are pretty well identical apart from the markings on them.

Certainly the R8215s in two "DCC fitted" locos I had were the same as the R8249 replacements. (Gratis from Hornby after address and other problems)

 

Keith

[250BOB]

Lots of people are quite happy running Hornby decoders, and settle for the performance they give, which isnt too bad at all. However, if you want to invest more money in your decoders, you will improve the running properties....I'm pretty sure the Hornby decoder users agree with that. They are good for the price.....but if you can afford more, then move up to lenz or TCS for example......the performance will improve accordingly.

Bob

[JZ]

I too have had very few problems with Hornby decoders. But I have found that now I have gained experience with DCC, they do have their limitations. I am now working my way through my fleet to replace them. Bachmann's 553 is not bad, though a tad on the large size and this limits it's use in steam loco's. My decoders of choice are from the TCS range.

[johnd]

I to use a number of Hornby 8249's and accept them for what they are, good for the job they do.

 

I wonder that now Railmaster has been introduced by Hornby and if you use that a number of issues with them now become irelavant ie. top speed as this is now set by railmaster.

[Guest 40-something]

Lots of people are quite happy running Hornby decoders, and settle for the performance they give, which isnt too bad at all. However, if you want to invest more money in your decoders, you will improve the running properties....I'm pretty sure the Hornby decoder users agree with that. They are good for the price.....but if you can afford more, then move up to lenz or TCS for example......the performance will improve accordingly.

Bob

 

The chips I use are the cheap hornbys, Bachmann and TCS, I can honestly say I find no difference in them for what I need them for which is mostly slow speed shunting and slow speed freight trains. Maybe if I was to use the loco's in a different way then I'd see a difference, but at the mo, they do me just fine!

 

Some people are of the opinion that the more you spend, the better the product (in all aspects of consumerism) but that is mostly not the case!

[JZ]

 

The chips I use are the cheap hornbys, Bachmann and TCS, I can honestly say I find no difference in them for what I need them for which is mostly slow speed shunting and slow speed freight trains.

 

All the more reason not to use the Hornby R8249. With the Bachmann, though not the 552, you can set start, mid and top speeds, as you can with TCS. Also with the TCS ones there is a shunting mode function (also on some Bachmann) which effectively halves the working speeds for more control. In my opinion, it is well worth getting something like a Sprog II, around £60, for programming on you PC, then you can really see what you can get out of a decoder. It was once I got mine that I saw the limitations of Hornby's cheapie.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Some people are of the opinion that the more you spend, the better the product (in all aspects of consumerism) but that is mostly not the case!

I think you are quite wrong to say.... "that is mostly not the case!"

It would be more realistic or accurate to say, "that is sometimes not the case".

That applies not only to consumer goods but to services as well.

 

With regards to decoders; while increased price usually brings better motor drive, it mostly provides more features and facilities.

Some cheaper decoders may have perfectly acceptable motor drive, but you may find there isn't the facility to provide the sort of fine tuning that's available from more expensive decoders.

In some cases, budget decoders are in fact quite old models, sometimes de-spec'ed, having been long superceded by better quality chips (e.g. the Bachmann 3 function models, which are an old ESU design, still sold as the LokPilot Basic V1.0)).

 

 

.

 

.

[Guest 40-something]

I think you are quite wrong to say.... "that is mostly not the case!"

It would be more realistic or accurate to say, "that is sometimes not the case".

That applies not only to consumer goods but to services as well.

 

With regards to decoders; while increased price usually brings better motor drive, it mostly provides more features and facilities.

Some cheaper decoders may have perfectly acceptable motor drive, but you may find there isn't the facility to provide the sort of fine tuning that's available from more expensive decoders.

In some cases, budget decoders are in fact quite old models, sometimes de-spec'ed, having been long superceded by better quality chips (e.g. the Bachmann 3 function models, which are an old ESU design, still sold as the LokPilot Basic V1.0)).

.

 

I do realise that some of the cheaper chips are older designs, but they are still good for the main functions of providing loco drive and switching on and off of lights, which is maybe what most folk who use DCC want at first, and may be all they ever need. Or are on a tight budget. A few guys in my club use cheap chips in their loco's and have no intention of messing with CV's as they find the performance more than suitable for what they need. I have a Hornby 8249 fitted 'trainset' 0-4-0 running just as smooth and slow as my TCS fitted Bachmann 08, both run incredibly slow and smooth. An expensive decoder cant turn a headlight on and off any better than a basic cheap decoder

 

I do find it a bit tiring hearing folk rubbishing the cheap Hornby & Bachmann decoders, true they dont have the range of fine tuning available, but for those who want that feature, suitable decoders are available, but are not always better.

 

Horses for course as always!

[250BOB]

Hi Joe,

As you say.....its horses for courses

 

If you are happy with the performance of the Hornby decoder....then thats all you need.

 

I'm not at all happy with its performance, and thats why I prefer to spend the extra, and get the extra adjustability that comes with the higher spec, more expensive, decoders.

 

I do think most people start with the cheapies, and some are quite happy to remain there.......but I also think that a lot of folk move on.

 

However, I think........it depends on what you run, how you run it etc etc......and you are quite right that in some cases the Hornby decoder is all you need.

 

But.............in simple terms, the Hornby decoder is not as technologically good as a lenz, tcs etc.,, and to an extent, you do get what you pay for.

 

Bob

[Sunnysa]

The bottom line is Hornby and Bachman decoders are made to Hornby/ Bachman specs and to a price .

 

They do not have, as Bob said, the capabilities of decoders that cost a couple of $s more EG DCC Concepts TCS etc.

 

II you are happy with H/B decoders then certainly stick with them but, if you want overall better performance and reliability from your locos then try something better.

 

Re decoder fitted locos; the only time I buy one is if that is the only way I can get that particular loco.

 

If loco has H/B decoders I imediately swap it out for something better.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[craigwelsh]

The bottom line is Hornby and Bachman decoders are made to Hornby/ Bachman specs and to a price .

 

Cheers

Ian

Though true for Hornby, Bachmann have bought in older designs from a variety of makes to form their range and these have generally been decent quality older models that have been superceeded. Its a slightly different situation from the spec'd and designed nature of the Hornby product.

[7013]

Today I fitted aTCS DPX2UK to a Castle and a Hornby R8249 to my CL50 both run beautifully at speed and at a crawl you would be hard pushed to tell which was which.

The R8215 was Hornby's early decoder which had problems (defaulting back to 3 etc.) The R8249 came about from what was learned about the problems with the R8215 and is a far superior decoder. Some people like to knock this decoder purely because it is Hornby, I have several fitted to my locos both plugged in and hard wired, I have never had a problem with any of them. They are a good basic no frills decoder, if you want the top of the range then buy Hornby Sapphire, or Lenz Gold but be prepared to pay 2-3 times as much.

[Ravenser]

Today I fitted aTCS DPX2UK to a Castle and a Hornby R8249 to my CL50 both run beautifully at speed and at a crawl you would be hard pushed to tell which was which.

The R8215 was Hornby's early decoder which had problems (defaulting back to 3 etc.) The R8249 came about from what was learned about the problems with the R8215 and is a far superior decoder. Some people like to knock this decoder purely because it is Hornby, I have several fitted to my locos both plugged in and hard wired, I have never had a problem with any of them. They are a good basic no frills decoder, if you want the top of the range then buy Hornby Sapphire, or Lenz Gold but be prepared to pay 2-3 times as much.

 

It has one limitation which for me, with DMUs, is quite serious : R8249 does not support advanced consisting (It is also limited in the current handling department , which means you can't fit a Hornby decoder to older locos or anything Heljan - it will overload and blow). The new Trainsave decoders , though bulkier ., offer consisting, are rated for 1A continous /1.6A pear (against Hornby's 0.5A continous) have a range of tunable features and are only a couple of pounds more than the discount price of R8249 .This will perhaps exert some pressure on Hornby's decoder sales. R8249 does seem to have a higher failure rate than most decoders (perhaps because of the current rating). There are higher spec alternatives available at prices well below those of the Lenz Gold

 

I can't help feeling that R8249 may be best suited to new steam locos, where current draw is low, small size is valuable and consisting is not so important

[JZ]

 

which means you can't fit a Hornby decoder to older locos or anything Heljan - it will overload and blow).

 

When starting out in DCC I fitted Hornby decoders to many loco's, including most of my Heljan fleet. Never had any problems.