Sheffield Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 Didn't the LNWR, and others such as the LYR, allocate the lowest free number to each loco as it entered service, which meant a series of locos would not have consecutive numbers. As regards the Hatchette errors we were told at the begining that DJH were building the loco in advance of the parts being issued so that they could help write the instructions. I wonder to what extent they are responsible for some of these errors. But on balance I am glad I stuck with it, and I think it was about average for a 7mm scale loco kit. But what will we have to put on the forum in future? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4472 Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 It would clarify things once and for all if anyone out there has a clear photo of the plate in question on the actual Loco? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotblack Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 is it possible that the works number 4471 is correct for 1472 (4472) if you get my drift. Don't know how the G.N.R. did its works numbering. I know that the L.N.W.R. had a strange ideas about numbering locos that IIRC was based on the works number, eg a coal tank as No.1234 and the next coal tank 1278 due to them building 44 other locos before the second coal tank was going into traffic. Again according to the RCTS, Doncaster started its works serial numbering system with no. 1 in 1867 and continued with this system until 1952 when the practice was discontinued. In this series, FS received works no. 1564. Doncaster also used a parallel engine order and stores order system from 1897 for guidance within the workshop, however the engine order series terminated at E.O. 409 in 1957 with the completion of the last steam loco order. So far I haven't been able to find which engine order FS formed a part of, but with the highest EO being 409 I don't think it really matters. The only other thing I can see in the book which might be relevant is a sentence at the end of the Doncaster works chapter:- "Works plates sometimes went astray and often new ones were cast to replace them, but occasionally plates were fitted to the wrong engine and such errors were not always rectified." As 4472 has said, the only way to be sure is to see a photo of the actual plate fitted. For more info see RCTS Locos of the LNER Vol.1 page 94, and Vol 2A. pages 5-91 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redgauntlet Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 I have just looked at Yeadon's Register of the LNER A1/A3 classes and it has 1472/4472s works number as 1564. I can't see where 1471 could come from that was the number of Sir Frederick Banbury, its works number was 1539. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushrat Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I have just looked at Yeadon's Register of the LNER A1/A3 classes and it has 1472/4472s works number as 1564. I can't see where 1471 could come from that was the number of Sir Frederick Banbury, its works number was 1539. Jeez! Talk about a parting shot from Hachette! So now we all have a decision to make, either rename the locomotive as Sir Frederick Banbury (who was he by the way? Never heard of him out here in the antipodies!) or 2, change to the correct number. At least I am still very early in the build, so I have plenty of time to decide. Does anybody know of one of these locos painted blue, or other colours? Saw a photo of a blue one on the net but couldnt find it again................. Bushrat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
61650gtfc Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 All the LNER Loco worksplates I have seen show the works number (1564) and not the loco's running number (1472/4472) so it looks like yet another clanger! Can anyone get to York to check the one they have there? As stated before though these plates did go missing and where sometimes replaced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted May 20, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2010 Does anybody know of one of these locos painted blue, or other colours? Saw a photo of a blue one on the net but couldnt find it again................. Here's one in kit form... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotblack Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Sir Frederick Banbury (who was he by the way? Never heard of him out here in the antipodies!) Bushrat Sir Frederick Banbury (1850 - 1936) Last chairman of the GNR Donald Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pecksniff Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Why are you so pandetic about a number if its got 4472 on it thats enough for trainspotters and what about the cinder guards did it have any or not its a pandetic mess it looks like a train and thats the best your going to get...my moneys on Martin Finney if you want a better one.. regards Ted..in Sunny Norfolk...lovely.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4472 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Looks like I've confirmed your thoughts 61650gtfc Take a look at the 4472 works plate photo shown 3/4 down this link http://www.superstock.co.uk/stock-photography/scotsman Shows the number 1564, which ties up with the Doncaster Works info for the frame of 4472 'Flying Scotsman' as being "Don 1564/23" So the plate number reflects the frame number rather than Loco number, problem solved I think, but even so, DJH have got the works number very wrong it seems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pecksniff Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 hope this clears it up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4472 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Question solved but not the problem And another just to confirm it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redgauntlet Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Jeez! Talk about a parting shot from Hachette! So now we all have a decision to make, either rename the locomotive as Sir Frederick Banbury (who was he by the way? Never heard of him out here in the antipodies!) or 2, change to the correct number. At least I am still very early in the build, so I have plenty of time to decide. Does anybody know of one of these locos painted blue, or other colours? Saw a photo of a blue one on the net but couldnt find it again................. Bushrat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redgauntlet Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I'm sure that Sir Frederick Banbury had the GN tender with coal rails mind, not the corridor tender, if the works number is a problem the tender is a bigger one. On a better note, it wasn't rebuilt as an A3 until 1942. 4472 did not have cinder guards in 1928. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pecksniff Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Silly me its a Green Arrow... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4472 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 It makes you wonder what works number appears on the DJH A3 FS kit, 4472 or 4471, or possibly 1564 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotblack Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 It makes you wonder what works number appears on the DJH A3 FS kit, 4472 or 4471, or possibly 1564 Probably none of the above. Name and numberplates are usually among the items left to the builder of the kit to provide, along with wheels, motor and gearbox, decals, couplings, etc, etc, etc. Donald Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4472 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 These companies are listed by DJH for nameplates: Guilplates 32 Wodeland Avenue, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 4JZ 01483 565980 Scales: 4mm, 7mm, 10mm, Nameplates and Tansfers. Or Jackson-Evans http://www.modelmasterdecals.com/JacksonEvans_Product_List.php Though you should not have to plough more money in to put this matter right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Time Workshop Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 The 7mm range of former Jackson Evans plates are no longer available from Modelmaster. Having been in storage elsewhere for some time, I have resurrected them and am currently restocking. Hence my offer of free plates for the first three kits to complete. Hope this clarifies. Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4472 Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Has anyone contacted Hachette about the works number error? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotblack Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Has anyone contacted Hachette about the works number error? I haven't. As I said in a previous post, I intend to make my model as 'Colorado' so will have to get a new set of plates anyway. Donald Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Owen Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Gentlemen Just a minor question. In issue 123, the instructions deal largely with the painting of the tender and the tender wheels. The latter are black, according to Hachette, which ties in with the coloured line drawing in Issue 1. In the "Loco Profile" number 1 (published by Profile Publications), however, which deals with the LNER non-streamlined pacifics, there is a colour illustration (not photograph) of "Scottie" as prepared for the Wembley Exhibition of 1924 with its original GNR tender. This shows the loco and tender wheels as, correctly, unlined, but with green spokes/hob. The booklet contains a further illustration of 2501 Columbo (A3) running with the with the corridor tender with lined loco and tender wheel rims. The spokes/hubs of the tender wheels are, however, again shown in green. Whilst I am not an LNER expert by any means (I'm a GWR and LNWR modeller by inclination), it does strike me that whilst it would be possible, it would also be somewhat improbable that such a prestigious locomotive as Scottie would be exhibited at Wembley with black tender wheels. The profile illustration of Columbo also suggests that the corridor tender carried green tender wheels in service. A minor point but I would like to get it right if possible. Does anyone have any information about this? Regards, Stan Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pecksniff Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Dont know if you remember this picture super glued...had a change of heart when one bit fell off and soldered them No I dont want no medals thankyou.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramskee Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Dont know if you remember this picture super glued...had a change of heart when one bit fell off and soldered them No I dont want no medals thankyou.. Hi Pecksniff, what solder did you use and what flux? Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Owen Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Hi Pecksniff, what solder did you use and what flux? Mark Kramskee Like Pecksniff I soldered up these components. I used 6% phosphoric acid flux, solder paint (could have used multi-core) and a 100watt soldering iron. Whilst assembling them was straightforward, attaching them to the chassis proved anything but. You really need a lot of heat given the thermal conductivity of the mainframes and my 100watt iron was pushed to do the job - a small pencil gas torch might be a better bet if you have one. You might like to each out if you've already fitted the loco brakes as there is a risk of these meting into blobs! Hope this helps Regards, Stan owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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