Snow White Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 "Modern" layouts are too restrictive for my tastes and are simply denied the many operating possibilities that existed pre-Beeching. By contemporary, everyone seems to be assuming regular main line stuff. In reality, contemporary also includes preserved standard gauge lines, industrial, lots of narrow gauge variety, trams running along railway trackbed (and soon tram/trains sharing tracks with trains), Deltics on freight trains, foreign stuff running in the UK, steam on the main line etc. etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Maybe someone needs to create a new term to cover the post privatisation era in a catchy term so exhibition managers can tell the difference? All in favour of "post modernist" But agree that there needs to be some differentiation. Though I'm afraid the term "modern image" for me applies to just about everything BR onwards and not just "diesel era" or "sectorisation" On the continent they went for the Epoch system, which I have to look up all the time!, the problem with the epoch system as applied over here is that it is a slant towards what one manufacturer wishes to foist upon us and has nothing to do with real time periods. I have to say that I find layouts with stock of 20 or so years as being tedious and very uninspiring and would not particularly like to see any more than the current numbers on the show circuit. True the actual detail modelling may have something to offer but the actual running of trains hardly interest me. If I wanted to see that I can go and watch the real thing and be equally as bored. My train watching days ended mid 60's at the end of steam so I find nothing nostalgic in anything beyond that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 From very vague memory, some years back (late 80's/early 90's perhaps?) I think I once read an article in one of the mags by someone associated with what may have been a fairly well-known 'modern-image' (if you'll excuse the phrase) layout in which the author discussed a change in focus in his modelling- he'd previously modelled the contemporary scene of that period and attempted to keep it contemporary and up-to-date, but had changed to modelling a fixed point in time set a few years previously because he'd got fed up with renumbering locos as the prototypes were withdrawn, or replacing them altogether as older classes like 25s, 40s etc disappeared from the network.... Hum mm, sounds like something I wrote in a Boldon Junction article in ModelRail in 1994!!!!!! Since then my modelling period has(sometimes)traveled back a further 20 years to a period I don't even remember! kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium gc4946 Posted November 22, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2011 I've been to many shows and the number of post-2000 era layouts are only a small proportion of the total exhibits. I'm sure there's a fair deal of modelling going on, but most layouts are only mentioned on the web, if at all, in a home rather than an exhibition setting. Maybe exhibition managers only look at what's within their club or immediate group and not proactively search the web for promising layouts who are built by those who don't belong to a club, and which could be invited to a show, unless they've already personally known or heard of that person. Obviously there are issues regarding transport, availability and willingness to meet expenses. I've seen home-based portable layouts just as good if not better than bigger club efforts and think many layouts representing the contemporary era are small because of lack of space, hence many TMDs, limited operating potential as many still prefer locos over units, and resources, especially money, as it can be pricey buying models of the latest liveries. Also, having seen the Blackmill layout and its varied trains, not many modellers keep up with the pace of change on the prototype, especially liveries and new railway kit, e.g. Network Rail gauging and test trains. If exhibition managers can include a mix of club and non-club personal home efforts, including "work-in-progress" layouts that look promising, then one may see more contemporary-era layouts on the exhibition circuit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 22, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2011 As the OP, I guess I'd better add replies to a few quotes. Thanks for the replies so far and other layout suggestions - I think I was being a bit 4mm-centric! Perhaps for a lot of people it's impossible to "keep up to date" with hideous new liveries being produced almost every five minutes? Of course you also have the problem of items not necessarily being available rtr, and of course not all of us are happy or confident with anything more than applying a bit of weathering to a new loco we've just spent over £100 on. The "weathering of new stock dilemma" isn't unique to diesels and modern stock, so why would this put people off? Maybe someone needs to create a new term to cover the post privatisation era in a catchy term so exhibition managers can tell the difference? Very good point - "moderrn image" simply conveys anything since the end of main line steam to most exhibition managers and as such, all diesel layouts often get lumped into the same category. I describe Blackmill as "2005-present day" I love watching the real modern scene, and I don't find it boring (and in my opinion in most places there is more variety than folk think if they just go and look for it) - but in modelling terms I like a bit of operation. That's hard to acheive on a small/medium sized layout without losing that credibility. I'd say the key to expanding the range is finding bits that are interesting and modelleable, and those bits which are both interesting and modelleable may not be so obvious (or easy to acheive) as they were before... Again, a couple of very valid points. That's why I favour the "half-a-station" as we can get more in the available space than just simple platforms . I now find the current UK scene as dull as dishwater. All 66s and MUs. See above from GloriousNSE. On the other hand "standardisation" is not a word that can be used to describe North American railroads. There are at least 25 different loco types and subtypes still in use. You've got the big roads and dozens if not a hundred small short lines to choose from. Even the big ones are splashing the paint about with various heritage schemes. Hmmm - how many TOC's have we got in this country? Heritage paint schemes? Plenty of railtours in the UK to choose from with heritage liveries - and classes of loco. There is also the same scope as per the US to model long block trains as well as shor freights - particularly engineering workings More to come as I digest the other postings. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 22, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2011 I think the space/budget issue is a big thing, many people at home tend to either model small compact layouts (like a BLT or a diesel depot - and you can probably only have so many similar looking layouts at the same show) or have a permanent layout in a spare room, loft, shed or similar. Very few lone modellers can fit a larger layout at home, or have the budget/skills to deal with it, which leaves it to clubs to fill the gap, and club layouts tend to follow what the larger or more vocal section want to build, and clubs are more often than not predominantly filled by steam era modellers. Valid points about the large club layouts tend to be steam era - maybe we need to wait a few more years? Personally I disagree with the criticisms that everything is the same in modern image, surely that can be said about the numerous BR blue layouts with their similar blue diesels and Mk1 sets. Personally I'd rather see a more modern layout with much more livery variations. Theres also plenty of scope for unusual workings with things such as network rail trains which Blackmill manages better than any other layout I've seen, so they don't have to boring and you can run stuff that might not be seen every day Although I'm predominantly a diesel modeller, BR blue is (to use a phrase elsewhere in this thread) "as dull as dishwater". Even steam layouts that are black/various shades of green/maroon have more colour. Theres obviously interest in modern era too because of the numerous small modern layouts, I myself am guilty of building a modern depot like so many others! but it's a nice place to view my models and listen to the sounds etc, my plans for my next layout are far more ambitious and hopefully in the not too distant future I can add a reasonably large modern image exhibition layout to the list Look forward to it! After reading this thread I tried to imagine building a contemporary layout based on my nearest station, Three Bridges. This line carries almost exclusively 3rd rail passenger trains from London to Brighton, London to Eastbourne via Lewes and Newhaven, London to Portsmouth and Southampton via the South coast route and Horsham. So a fairly busy Main line. However, as far as I know only the following trains pass through FCC Class 377, Southern Class 350 and Southern/Gatwick Express Class 422. Again as far as I know, none of these are presently available in 4mm although the 350 looks to be on its way. See GloriousNSE post about finding the bits that are "modellable". I'm sure that there are steam era locations that are "as dull as dishwater" (now becoming an overworked phrase such as "modern image".....) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 22, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2011 The problem with modelling contemporary is that is it contemporary today, but history yesterday. So any layout soon ceases to be contemporary unless they continually add new stock. Maybe my use of the term contemporary was a little misleading. All modelling is history as it's near impossible for me to doa model of train and display it the same day - even that is history, albeit very recent. "Models covering the last 5-10 years" is probably a better title. Which obviously creates a huge cost element in keeping up-to-date ( I try and subsidise some of my modelling purchases by selling on the older stuff) What is a contemporary layout? See above, but the OP refers to post-2000 Stretching the arguement a bit, I've also noticed that the contemporary layouts I have observed tend to be set in the 'real world' where the setting is modelled warts 'n' all, including graffiti, weathered stock, decrepit buildings. Not stretching the argument at all - part of the current scene is the urban grot. It is a challenge for sure, and it's noticeable that many of the influential/inspirational transition sectorisation era layouts were actually contemporary when they started but didn't move on...i'm thinking the likes of Tonbridge West Yard, Acton Main line etc... Maybe some/most/all of the layouts mentioned in this thread may go the same way. The lads on Boldon were trying to keep contemporary but eventually decided on a cut-off date Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 22, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2011 "Modern" layouts are too restrictive for my tastes and are simply denied the many operating possibilities that existed pre-Beeching. Maybe that's why Beeching had to make the cuts - "many operating possibiliies" in my eyes, means unproductive, therefore more costly. All in favour of "post modernist" But agree that there needs to be some differentiation. Though I'm afraid the term "modern image" for me applies to just about everything BR onwards and not just "diesel era" or "sectorisation" Is post modernist in the future? I wonder what the great Cyril Freezer would be making of the term modern image these days? He's regularly credited with coining the phrase. I think that's me done for now............................... Off to plan my contemporary version of TWY...................... Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Weirdly enough, the handful of younger (ie under the age of 25) modellers I've known personally in the last 10 years or so have been almost exclusively steam-era modellers, with interests like Pre-nationalisiation GWR, 50's BR and narrow-gauge... As a younger modeller this rings true... since I am interested in the WR from the 1950s-80s. For me the personal problem is that change on the modern railway is too fast for the manufacurers and the liveries come too thick and too fast. 12 Years ago I lived in Bath and my abiding memory is/was of HSTs. Since the I can count Great Western, FGW Fag Packet, FGW Barbie and FGW Dynamic lines . Thats a livery every three-four years! Now if I was to collect a rake of "Great Western" franchise HST coaches they would be relevent for a very short window of time, whereas if I was to buy a rake of blue/grey MK1s I could legitimately use them behind: End of era steam locos, Hydraulics and the later class 33/47 era taking me towards the 90s and privitisation. I would love to model my modern era but by the time I have got enough money for the appropriate rakes of stock the likelyhood is they will be OOP. Finally the extremely intricate nature of liveries a la FGW dynamic lines means I would really struggle to replicate them should I need to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 By the time it's finished, the layout is out of date. Only time I was ever ahead of the game was when Hornby introduced their Cl 58 before the prototype. Regards, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow White Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 How long does it take to produce the average exhibition layout? How long does it take to decide to build one and design it in the first place? How long does it take to afford and buy (or repaint) all the stock? All of these take a lot of time, unless it is a small layout. Surely it is the next generation of layouts that will cover the Noughties, not the current batch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Maybe that's why Beeching had to make the cuts - "many operating possibiliies" in my eyes, means unproductive, therefore more costly. You ain't no railway enthusiast......An accountant yay..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 22, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2011 You ain't no railway enthusiast......An accountant yay..... If there's one thing I'm cr*p at, it's accounting......... Maybe I'm a railway realist? Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Have to say that I agree with the idea that Modern Image is hard to define, and Id say now that it is merely privitisation, but even then your entering a second era of that as the first franchises have come to an end. The time of GNER, EWS, Virgin Cross Country, GBRf (which has come back!?), Central Trains, and Scotrail (with a swoosh) have all given way to more paint being splashed as logos and franchises change. Its hard for models to come out fast enough to keep up with the current market, especially when there is no unit like a 185, the core of the TPE fleet, meaning that you can only model that up until the 158s were replaced. Equally so there is no real modern DMU to the standards of the diesel locomotives produced, ones on the market now are dated, though Realtrack in their own way are addressing such needs. Even a lot of depot themed layouts, where light engines arrive to be serviced and shunted around tend to mean that its just 'another modern TMD', with EWS and DRS being favourites for the mix of 'heritage' traction with newer engines and modern GM power. Ironnically, theres a growth in steam era exhibition layouts that feature light engines arrival thanks to the cast resin models produced, but this doesnt seem to deture show organisers for asking them to attend. Operations on the modern network dont lend to easy reproduction in model form. Freight now is trainload in length and gone are the days of Speedlink wagon load service, despite Enterprise being launched by EWS. You dont get many examples of a wagon or two being collected from a yard and marshalled to a train nearby any more. Equally so, stations on a branch see infrequent service or on the main have longer formations that really should have massive layouts to model them. Even I have made a compromise to run smaller trains to simulate this. My layout does however feature a fair chunk of modellers licence, which will detract from the puritsts. This is not to distort the true operation as my station chosen does have freight, passenger and preservation in one place, but rather give it more chance to mean trains run. As a result it would be something of a mecca for enthusiasts and public alike, but running steam and modern image gets people talking and pleases everyone. Many like the modern image trains I have, like a Structural Gauaging Test Train I've had commissioned or a Serco one Ive done myself, but with Hornbys NMT pack, such trains will probably become the normal 'special' train everyone has! Even steam features from the network end, with 44871 regularly rostered for a charter as per reality. Everyone can enjoy modern image, its just what you choose to model, with whats available and then how you choose to run it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapford34102 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I would agree with those who have mentioned the problem of liveries hamstringing those wanting to do a contemporary or even a recent themed layout. Off the top of my head I can only think of a few TOC's who might be modelled reasonably well - ATW for a contemporary company, maybe Northern and Scotrail, and Central for an earlier one. There's a number of "one offs" such as a Wessex's 153, FGW's 166 and so on but even if the units are available to add more varietythen modern liveries are usually so complex that reproducing them can be a major problem. As mentioned Manufacturers also the problem of keeping up with the plethora of liveries and the speed of changes. To this you can also add the tricky issue of licensing which I understand has caused issues with one potential livery. Of course you can have a layout with a mish-mash of contemporary liveries, not very realistic but fun I've no doubt, though I suspect the OP was referring to something more rigorous. Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted November 23, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 23, 2011 I live right next to the ECML and nowadays I don't even look up when a train passes, except for the rare occasion when one makes a "funny" noise, indicating something different (like a Deltic or Tornado!). A few years ago, we had a station, a goods yard, a gas works, a junction with a branch line, coal drops, a signal box and lots of signals. I would have loved to have been there when Cock O' The North shunted the goods yard on a running in turn, or when the pre war streamliners were running. Now we have a signal! Once in a blue moon something stops at it. Even in blue diesel days, a train arriving at King's Cross had to have the loco released and there were light engine movements and parcels vans etc being added or removed. Now the trains arrive, then, after a while, they leave. It seems to me that even the industrial railway scene is not what it once was as we have so little industry left! To build a modern model that is portable, plausible, has reasonable length trains and has some operational potential is very tricky. Widnes Vine Yard ticks all those boxes but even then, the whole modern world just doen't have, to me, any charm or attraction. I would rather see a nice wooden fence along a railway line than the best modelled high security metal fence. I prefer my bridges graffiti free. Roads were much nicer when they had virtually no signs and no traffic apart from a horse drawn dray. If I want to look at a depressing railway scene, I can look over my garden fence, I don't need to spend my time and effort building a model railway to portray it. I have a derelict platform, weeds growing 6ft tall and more, electrification masts stopping me getting a decent photo, as much litter as you like, graffiti and, as I mentioned, a signal. There is nothing that makes me want to either model it, or look at models of it! It simply doesn't inspire me. An occasional modern layout at a show is plenty for me and I wouldn't want to see any more than I do. I prefer to model my railways when they were gentle on they eye, elegant, clean, even pretty, so I model pregrouping steam. I don't remember it but that doesn't matter. I can't go out and look at it, so I build models of it instead. If anybody doesn't agree that a GCR Atlantic (or a Deltic or a Western) is a million miles ahead of a Class 66 in terms of attractiveness, please feel free to have your opinion and please allow me to have mine! I would never tell anybody what they should or shouldn't enjoy and if modern railways float your boat, good modelling to you. They just leave me cold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 To the several people who have posted personal opinions here about why they hate the modern railway so much - is this really constructive? Nobody's trying to stop you modelling the era you like, nobody's trying to suggest that you have to be interested in the contemporary railway, and I think everyone understands that there are some people who won't be interested in a contemporary layout. Despite paying lip service to the idea of a broad church, some of these posts come across as highly dismissive of the whole idea of contemporary modelling, and far more so than the few criticisms here of earlier eras. On the other hand it's clear that there are people contributing to this thread who would like to see more contemporary layouts, and the amount of modern models available (not just RTR) suggests that a significant proportion of modellers are interested in the contemporary era. There has been some good discussion of the reasons why contemporary layouts do not appear in larger numbers at exhibitions, which is much more complicated than the fact a handful of people on this forum have no time for them. So please spare us the lashings of vitriol and let things continue in a civilised way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Assuming the original hypothesis to be accurate (that there is a dearth of 'contemporary' layouts on the exhibition circuit), this does surprise me. I assume that 'contemporary' means sometime in the last 10 years or so. Do exhibition managers really choose not to invite 'contemporary' layouts? ... or Are there just more layouts from other time periods to invite and the exhibitions proportionally reflect the range of layouts that potential exhibitors choose to make. ... or Do exhibitors choose to make subjects they believe will get them invitations to exhibit on 'the circuit'? I don't have the ability to regularly attend exhibitions in the UK, so I'm quite ignorant here. While personally I would be the most drawn to grouping or pre-grouping layouts, my ideal of an exhibition would include as much variety of time frames, regions and themes as possible. I would equally enjoy nationalization, corporate blue, and contemporary layouts and would certainly want to find this at an exhibition. Each has their own unique appeal. (Not to mention themes - mines, harbours, depots, suburban, branch lines, main lines etc etc.) The observation that people (in this case the visiting public) resonate with seeing their day to day life in miniature - the Tesco/Sainsbury/Ikea, modern road vehicles etc - is a big appeal of a contemporary layout and I would think a sure winner for crowd appeal. All this makes me wonder what is the distribution of layouts 'on the exhibition circuit' by timeframe, even if we roughed it out in some arbitrary bins like: pre-grouping grouping early nationalisation late nationalisation corporate blue corporate sectors contemporary How even do we think this distribution should be? (As I noted earlier - a bit of everything is what I would prefer.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I tend to agree with tbg about much of the modern railway. Unless you're modelling a main line facility the likes of Widnes Vine Yard which I'll agree is very good, the opportunities for portraying a modern scene that is both plausible and operationally interesting in a small space are extremely limited unless you have the space to model a mainline setting. Over the 35 or so years I've watched the interest slowly fade from the railway as wagonload traffic vanished and the infrastructure was pared down the the bare minimum in the interests of economy anf efficiency. For me, the modern scene is best portrayed by gaudily coloured units running along endless plain track through a corridor of rampant vegetation. I admit though I'm only biased because I can remember past 'glories'. If the scene above is what you remember and you find it appealing, who am I to judge? What I remember from 30 years ago was slated by older guys who remembered the pre Beeching days. For all that though, it's along time since anything like a two platform terminus with adjacent TMD and wagonload facilities has existed on the 'big' railway. Which is why I've made the concious decision to disregard anything after 1991 when Speedlink was bumped off. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 How even do we think this distribution should be? (As I noted earlier - a bit of everything is what I would prefer.) I know a few people that have, in the past, chosen to build "more unusual subjects" as exhibition layouts, rather than say "another GW BLT based on Ashburton" because they think it will get them more exhibition invitations. I suppose one of the key things is that the "problem" of layouts looking the same is not confined to "modern image" - however that is defined - as every era throughout the UK's railway history, and continental railways too, has a certain amount of "mundaneness" where everything looks the same, and if you get too many layouts that are running the same type of stock then the 'boredom factor' can kick in. On the flip side of course is building the obscure prototype or industrial facility that nobody has heard of and can't relate to. Of course, this doesn't apply to specialist shows, where everything is american, or continental, or N gauge - because the whole point of those surely is the variety of things that can be done with "the same stuff" but even then there will still be a variety; large layouts, small layouts, complex layouts, simple layouts etc. One thing *I* find boring - and I know many people love - is shunting in any form. I have never built a layout which requires meticulous adding and removing wagons, running round, etc etc although I know that people like Carl Arendt made a life of different things to do with 5 wagons, 4ft and 2 points. Being an exhibition manager is a hard job, trying to get the balance right - but as others have already said, you can only work with what you have available to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted November 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2011 As a layout builder it is hard to find a balance between having plenty running for the viewer and also for the layout to be interesting to operate. Between a small group of us we have a variety of layouts in different scales gauges eras and countries. Those that are designed to run trains round and round to entertain both modellers with if different interests and the general public are layouts that some operators tend not to want to help out at shows or will only want to operate the shunting element on those layouts that do have some shunting on thm. On top of that, the layout has to be transportable and ours are designed to fit in cars otherwise hiring vans puts us off limits to some of the seller shows. My latest layout is a present day model of Banbury in N scale. This was chosen due to the varied amount of trains that can be seen passing through this location and whilst there isn't any true shunting of wagons, there is the moving of empty dmus to carriage sidings, freight loops etc. and all this fits into a space of 16 feet by 3 ft. There aren't many locations in the Uk these days that lend themselves to this but perhaps a new thread could be started to list out any such locations that might inspire some new present day layouts. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Something mentioned by a few posters, why should a modern(ish) layout have to stay contemporary by updating? If I set out to built 1912 GW, for example, no-one would expect me to model 1913 next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 It looked very good when I saw it at Barrow too Ian, definately one to watch out for. pre-grouping grouping early nationalisation late nationalisation corporate blue corporate sectors contemporary How even do we think this distribution should be? (As I noted earlier - a bit of everything is what I would prefer.) I think you need to add the occasional non-UK layout, i'd add a 'North American' and a 'rest of the world' category to that list - so for a perfect balance at a reasonably sized show with 20 layouts you'd be looking at a couple from each category - plus maybe a kids, and a 'heritage' display rounding up the numbers? Unfortunately in the real world there's lots of things to skew that, availability of layouts and costs must come into it even if there are no other factors for instance. If contemporary layouts that fit the EM's budget aren't available then it's hard to fill those two slots - and I would imagine it's equally hard finding two 'new' pre-grouping layouts every year! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted November 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2011 Very true! On one layout I modelled all the buildings as was at the time of the visit to the real location. When I went back the next year, the cycle hire place had closed, the clothes shop had also changed use and the empty building next door is now in use. It took ages to do all the signage and posters on the windows of the shop and cycle hire and would be hard to change these details! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted November 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2011 A connected - but not directly related to modern image as such -point we have been contacted by several exhibition managers who ask us about taking the layout and then we hear, absolutely nothing, (a no thanks would be polite) one exhibition in the South of Wales has asked us for information 3 times so far and each time we have heard nothing, another EM in the North of England asked us for info, then when I prompted him he said he would be back in touch and again nothing - and he's posted in this very thread (we don't mind a No thanks, but if we take the troible to provide the details the polite thing is to at least say "Thanks but No thanks"), a big show in Peterborough told us they would have us but again, nothing was ever received. Remember - If the layouts don't get invited then they won't get built, we've already changed our plans, we are now heading down the US route as we believe we will get more invites with a US layout than a modern (1990s modern) British one. I've been involved in exhibitions for a long time, both running them and attending them, when running them the team invite what we think the visitors would like, not our preferences, the visitors pay the entry so we try and get what will be a suitable line up for them, sometimes it's not possible but sometimes I think the comments posted above are true, some exhibition managers don't like diesels so only invite a token depot, or plank. Some of this is probably a bit off the main question but, to me, it's related, it's put me off building another Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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